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Is the Bladensburg Cross Unconstitutional?

Are you trying to say that because Christians are a majority, their religious symbols should be paid for and maintained by taxpayer dollars?

saying Congress cant establish a religion. 1+1=2 local govt paying to maintain cross is not Congress establishing a religion. See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?
 
saying Congress cant establish a religion. 1+1=2 local govt paying to maintain cross is not Congress establishing a religion. See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

Where did Jesus say: "Go forth, seize political power, beat people over their heads, take their money and use it to erect crosses on public property"?
 
Where did Jesus say: "Go forth, seize political power, beat people over their heads, take their money and use it to erect crosses on public property"?

no where. Why do you ask?? Do you have any idea??
 
You wrote The cross is "used by 100 of different faiths"? I asked "What faiths would those be, other than Christianity?"
dear, please remember your the liberal here. Constitution says Congress cant establish religion because that is exactly what they had done to such ill affect in Europe. None established Christianity which was not a religion but rather a name for a large group of religions. In Europe they established particular denominations within Christianity but never Christianity. Got it now?

So then,
1) a cross did not establish a religion, if it did, which one?
2) Congress did not build the cross 100 years ago let alone establish religion in Bladensburg 100 years ago or now
3) a cross is a symbol of a Christianity but not a symbol of a religion. 1+1=2

jimmy, jimmy, I'm beginning to feel sorry for you. More and more it looks like you are trying so desperately to defend yourself against attacks which don't exist.

I think there are many who comment on DP who would strongly disagree with your statement that Christianity is not a religion. One cannot 'get' that which is nonsensical.

Answers
1) Provide a statement by any person in which they stated that "a cross" established a religion. The cross is viewed by the mast majority of rational beings as a symbol of Christianity.
2) Who said Congress built the Bladensburg Cross?
3) Really? Christianity is not a religion? In your world apparently, 1+1= carrots or maybe ducks, I don't know

Just to show readers how much you clipped from my post that you supposedly replied to
What's the matter jimmy> Why can't you answer a simple question? You wrote The cross is "used by 100 of different faiths"? I asked "What faiths would those be, other than Christianity?"

Truly is hilarious how you try so desperately to evade answering simple questions when the fallacies of your comments are noted. You asked "does Constitution say Congress cant establish a religion"? and your response is a very weak attempt to move the goalposts -- "whcih of these did COngress establish in Bladeningburg???????????????"

What does the number of those claiming a faith have to do with the discussion regarding a Christian memorial on public property? Are you trying to say that because Christians are a majority, their religious symbols should be paid for and maintained by taxpayer dollars?
 
I think there are many who comment on DP who would strongly disagree with your statement that Christianity is not a religion.

embarrassed yet?? .

The real object of the amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance, Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity; but exclude all rivalry among Christian sects, and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment which should give to a hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government.”
[Justice Joseph Story (who served on the Supreme Court from 1811-1845) Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 2 Vol. 2:593-95, 2nd Ed. Boston: Little Brown (1905)]
 
The cross is viewed by the mast majority of rational beings as a symbol of Christianity.

so??? if its a symbol does that mean Congress established a religion??????????????? 1+1=2
 
2) Who said Congress built the Bladensburg Cross?

nobody said Congress built it let alone that they built it and established a religion in doing so. Therefore its not a Constitutional issue. Do you understand?
 
3) Really? Christianity is not a religion? In your world apparently, 1+1= carrots or maybe ducks, I don't know

Purpose of Constitution was to prevent Congress from establishing a denomination of Christianity, not Christianity. State and local govts had already established and were supporting 100's of Christian denominations. That was far far beyond the Bladenburg cross. Does the liberal understand now?
 
embarrassed yet?? .

The real object of the amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance, Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity; but exclude all rivalry among Christian sects, and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment which should give to a hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government.”
[Justice Joseph Story (who served on the Supreme Court from 1811-1845) Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 2 Vol. 2:593-95, 2nd Ed. Boston: Little Brown (1905)]

As is all too often the case when Christian dominionists quote the Founding Fathers or early justices on the Supreme Court, jimmy has provided us with a "quote mine" - a snippet from the writings of Justice Joseph Story. In this specific instance, jimmy is quoting from one of the many theocratic websites which have posted this quote from Justice Story's Commentaries

The words may be found paragraph 1871. In paragraph 1873, Justice Story provides his conclusion in regards to the origin and reasoning behind the First Amendment.
§ 1873. It was under a solemn consciousness of the dangers from ecclesiastical ambition, the bigotry of spiritual pride, and the intolerance of sects, thus exemplified in our domestic, as well as in foreign annals, that it was deemed advisable to exclude from the national government all power to act upon the subject. The situation, too, of the different states equally proclaimed the policy, as well as the necessity of such an exclusion. In some of the states, episcopalians constituted the predominant sect; in others, presbyterians; in others, congregationalists; in others, quakers; and in others again, there was a close numerical rivalry among contending sects. It was impossible, that there should not arise perpetual strife and perpetual jealousy on the subject of ecclesiastical ascendancy, if the national government were left free to create a religious establishment. The only security was in extirpating the power. But this alone would have been an imperfect security, if it had not been followed up by a declaration of the right of the free exercise of religion, and a prohibition (as we have seen) of all religious tests. Thus, the whole power over the subject of religion is left exclusively to the state governments, to be acted upon according to their own sense of justice, and the state constitutions; and the Catholic and the Protestant, the Calvinist and the Arminian, the Jew and the Infidel, may sit down at the common table of the national councils, without any inquisition into their faith, or mode of worship.

With the passage of the 14th Amendment, "the whole power over the subject of religion (being) left exclusively to the state governments", was removed from the control of state and local governments and was from the acceptance of the Amendment forward, any such power was in the purview of the federal government.
 
so??? if its a symbol does that mean Congress established a religion??????????????? 1+1=2

Maybe you should try some math that is somewhat more difficult than "1+1=2" because it is getting rather boring.

Once again for the edification of the readers, certainly not for you jimmy, as it is apparently too difficult for you to understand.

SUPPORTING does not equate with ESTABLISHING.

You claimed that the cross is used by 100s of different faiths and not just Christianity. Yet for some odd reason, you have failed to support your claim. Couldn't possible be because you haven't a clue - now could it.
 
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nobody said Congress built it let alone that they built it and established a religion in doing so. Therefore its not a Constitutional issue. Do you understand?

You were the one who brought Congress into the discussion. Are you trying to say that since Congress didn't pay for the erection and maintenance of the Cross that it should be seen as constitutionally protected property?
 
Purpose of Constitution was to prevent Congress from establishing a denomination of Christianity, not Christianity. State and local govts had already established and were supporting 100's of Christian denominations. That was far far beyond the Bladenburg cross. Does the liberal understand now?

Does the "Undisclosed" understand ? No, I shouldn't have asked that question. You have shown your inability to understand or comprehend questions in this entire thread. All you can apparently do is bring in totally unrelated subjects and then ask why someone questions your posts.

Once again, you show your near total ignorance of history, whether Ancient or American. Remember, I hope you do anyway, there were 13 states following the end of the American Revolution - most, not all, but most of them did support a "state religion". Therefore, there could not have been "100s of state-supported Christian denominations".

In New England, with the exception of Rhode Island, the Congregational Church was state-supported. You may remember the letter to the Danbury Baptists written by Thomas Jefferson, or maybe not. TJ wrote his letter with the famous phrase, ""wall of separation between church and state," after the Baptists had asked for help in their relations with the state-supported church. Southern states with the exception of Maryland, which had been established as a "safe place" for Catholics, were primarily Episcopalian following the schism with the Anglican Church. But then between 1776 and 1790, Maryland, New York, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia adopted constitutional provisions prohibiting the establishment of religion. Pennsylvania was primarily a Quaker state but changed after the Revolution as those of other churches moved in to the more tolerant state.
 
It's what you want to do; you're a very devout Christian, so Jesus must have said it. Did He suggest doing the opposite?

I find it amazing that a so-called Christian is so ignorant of actual scripture that he doesn't realize that Jesus actually supported the separation of Church and State. Mark 12:17; Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 2:13-17. Just sayin'.
 
I find it amazing that a so-called Christian is so ignorant of actual scripture that he doesn't realize that Jesus actually supported the separation of Church and State. Mark 12:17; Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 2:13-17. Just sayin'.

As well as John 18:36; 17:16...

Instead of forming strong opinions about, or speaking out against, certain unjust practices, or getting involved in earthly governments, Jesus urged his followers to do this...

“Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you." Matthew 6:33
 
It's what you want to do; you're a very devout Christian, so Jesus must have said it. Did He suggest doing the opposite?

what do I want to do??????
Jesus must have said what???
Doing the opposite of what?????
 
You were the one who brought Congress into the discussion.

no, Bill Of Rights brought it in by saying "Congress" could not establish a religious denomination. Did Congress establish a national religious denomination when a local group built Bladensburg cross 100 years ago with, secular inscription, to honor war dead? What religious denomination and where do they practice their religion??? Isn't learning fun?
 
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Is a cross a purely Christian symbol when it is used as a fallen veteran memorial? The SCOTUS will be making a decision on this matter in the next couple weeks.



Reasons offered by the American Humanist Assn.


All quotes from [URL="https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/01/31/heres-why-the-supreme-court-must-say-the-bladensburg-cross-is-unconstitutional/]Here’s Why the Supreme Court Must Say the Bladensburg Cross Is Unconstitutional[/URL]

For a group of people who don't believe in God, atheists sure do hate Him.
 
I find it amazing that a so-called Christian is so ignorant of actual scripture that he doesn't realize that Jesus actually supported the separation of Church and State. Mark 12:17; Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 2:13-17. Just sayin'.

Actually I'm a Devout Agnostic. Just a bit of sarcasm from me.
 
As well as John 18:36; 17:16...

Instead of forming strong opinions about, or speaking out against, certain unjust practices, or getting involved in earthly governments, Jesus urged his followers to do this...

“Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you." Matthew 6:33

A lot of Christians hold the belief that Christ's Kingdom will be established on Earth as soon as every elected office in America is held by Bible Thumping Republicans.
 
Knocking people on the head, taking their money and using it to put up crosses everywhere.

liberals clowns when he has lost debate to distract
 
For a group of people who don't believe in God, atheists sure do hate Him.

Other than the fact that it is difficult to "hate" something one doesn't believe exists, your comment is irrelevant to the discussion.

Simply asking that government at all levels not support any religious belief is not caused by hatred. After all, at this time and with the president, Congress and judges we have, it is becoming increasingly evident that one religious belief is being supported over all others. Some of the American citizenry find this to be problematic.

Once again for those who have not read the entire thread. The American Humanist Assoc. is not asking for the cross to be destroyed but simply that it be moved to private property and in the future to be maintained by private funding. HOW does that suppress any religious belief?
 
no, Bill Of Rights brought it in by saying "Congress" could not establish a religious denomination. Did Congress establish a national religious denomination when a local group built Bladensburg cross 100 years ago with, secular inscription, to honor war dead? What religious denomination and where do they practice their religion??? Isn't learning fun?

Learning can be fun and it can be rather exhausting. It does appear that you, jimmy, have not learned anything about American History and its relationship to religious beliefs.
 
The left's continue effort to destroy the Christian religion.

You couldn't be more wrong. The American Humanist Association is a fringe left-wing element, not mainstream liberal at all. Basically this group advocates for a philosophy free of belief in any gods and other supernatural forces. This group advocates for equality for nontheists (athiests)

So no, it is not a mainstream liberal organization, not in the least.
 
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