Is the Bladensburg Cross Unconstitutional?

[Daisy]

but you see liberals are using it, with other measures, to attack and destroy Christianity-right?

True Christianity is not going anywhere...:roll:

 

[pinqy]

It's worth noting that the American Humanist Association supported the Satanist statue of the deity Baphomet on public grounds.

Which is not to say that they support Satanists, but it is to say their objection to religious symbolism on public ground is selective and utilitarian.

Note that they were NOT supporting Baphomet as the only statue. Their point was that if you allow one religion, you have to allow any and all.

 

[James972]

Note that they were NOT supporting Baphomet as the only statue. Their point was that if you allow one religion, you have to allow any and all.

constitution does not say allow, it says establish. Do you understand?

 

[James972]

True Christianity is not going anywhere...:roll:

sure it is, look at all the liberal school shooters. If liberals had not killed their God they would not have been school shooters

 

[pinqy]

constitution does not say allow, it says establish. Do you understand?

Ah, but in this case we are talking freedom of religion, which applies to all religions.

 

[James972]

They would support a statue of Buddha as well

Don't forget, liberals in general hate the Constitution because it is about freedom. If local power structure wanted Christian symbol rather than buddhist symbol that should be fine since it is not establishing a religion or preventing practice there of.

 

[James972]

Ah, but in this case we are talking freedo. If religion, which applies to all religions.

no idea what your point is?? Why not share??

 

[Daisy]

sure it is, look at all the liberal school shooters. If liberals had not killed their God they would not have been school shooters

Oh ye of little faith...do you not know, what is from God cannot be destroyed?

"So under the present circumstances, I say to you, do not meddle with these men, but let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself.” Acts 5:38,39

 

[jet57]

Don't forget, liberals in general hate the Constitution because it is about freedom. If local power structure wanted Christian symbol rather than buddhist symbol that should be fine since it is not establishing a religion or preventing practice there of.

I haven't forgotten that you never - never - ever - have the slightest idea what the hell you're talking about, and this time is no exception.

 

[pinqy]

its illegal to establish. It says nothing about support.

We are a common law nation, where judicial rulings set precedent and the law.
"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever from they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa."
That is the precedent and the law.

I doubt you understand.

 

[Bezukhov]

does the silly liberal think they should have surrendered to Muslim and Nazis? Isn't thinking fun??

I'm no liberal, I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist. Well, to your credit those are probably the only two wars fought that were justified.

Another thing that I must admit it is the different motivations that impelled Christians and Muslims to go to war. For Muslims it was to spread their sick and evil religion. Christians, on the other hand, can hold their heads high. They went off to war for the far nobler aims of greed and avarice.

Which leads me to a question. Being neither a Christian nor a Muslim who should I admire more? Muslims who go out and kill because Mohamed commanded them to, or Christians who go out and kill in spite of what Jesus taught?

 

[Manc Skipper]

The left's continue effort to destroy the Christian religion.

Only the far right are Christians in the USA?

 

[Somerville]

????We are obviously products of the Christian Enlightenment. THe idea of liberty and morality as we know it today came from Christ.

Once again, Jimmy, you show all that your education is sorely lacking. The Enlightenment philosophers of the 17th and 18th centuries were very much against the use of the Christian faith in political culture.

 

[Integrityrespec]

With over 70% of Americans claiming to believe in Christianty why do Christians have to give up their belief for the 20+% who don't believe? Why are atheist offended by the sign of a cross if they don't belief? What is there to offend? The rights that are shared in this country come because of the basic humanitarian teachings from christianity that the founders wrote into our founding documents. Christians don't get offended that you don't believe, they actually are trying to share the belief with you. Love the sinner hate the sin idea. The minority in America is protected and because it is the majority often suffers. Christians are more offended that you are angry that we believe and our belief is what provides so many basic rights for all.

 

[eohrnberger]

OK, there is no prayer in school anymore. Well, that is not really true though is it. There is no school sanctioned prayer in school, but any kid or group of kids can choose to pray any free time they want in public school and it happens every day, just look at Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

Explicitly religious monuments have been taken down in many public squares and parks. Yet people are still free to erect any kind of religious monument on any private land they want. In the South there are crosses and statues of Jesus so big they can be seen for miles. They are just on private property.

The point is that even with the strictest interpretation of a separation of church and state, there is still freedom of the practice of religion. All a constitutional separation of church and state means, is that the state, it's government, and it's institutions, cannot be used as a vehicle to promote, endorse, or compel adherence to a religious belief. Even with the most liberal interpretation of a separation of church and state, that is all that it means.

That there is no mandated prayer in school is appropriate. The state shouldn't involve themselves in religion and the religious affairs of others.

In essence we agree. 'Of' does not mean 'from'.

This being the case what have been seen over the last so may years?

A constant effort from agnostic and atheistic people and organizations elbowing other's religions off of the public square; their interpretation being that 'Of' does in fact mean 'from'; an incorrect interpretation.

This is what is a constant irritant to me, and I'm not, in fact, particularly religious. A non-practicing Christian with Christian values, if you will.

 

[Somerville]

????We are obviously products of the Christian Enlightenment. THe idea of liberty and morality as we know it today came from Christ.

Jimmy, as always, you show the rational beings that you ain't got a figgini' clue in regards to history.

 

[eohrnberger]

But the issue of the cross has nothing to do with freedom of religion...it's about the establishment of religion: government support for one religion over others or religion over non-religion.

Even if every single person in a town had the same religion and 100% agreed on how to express that religion, it would still be unconstitutional for the government to support of promote that religion.


Do you really think the difference between an official and unofficial religion makes any difference?

"Do you really think the difference between an official and unofficial religion makes any difference?"
Yes, as that distinction is a key part in the separation of church and state.

Hard to construe a cross to honor war dead of all religions, raised from private funds, as being somehow "the establishment of religion: government support for one religion over others or religion over non-religion."

 

[Somerville]

"Do you really think the difference between an official and unofficial religion makes any difference?"
Yes, as that distinction is a key part in the separation of church and state.

Hard to construe a cross to honor war dead of all religions, raised from private funds, as being somehow "the establishment of religion: government support for one religion over others or religion over non-religion."

HOW does the symbol of one religion "honor war dead of all religions"?

 

[eohrnberger]

HOW does the symbol of one religion "honor war dead of all religions"?

Where are the declared exclusions of other religions?

 

[RogueWarrior]

Attacking the use of anyone's religion symbols is so counter-productive. It is always perceived, rightly so, as an attack against their religion.

Fighting for your own right to have equal consideration for your own religious symbols, well that is the winner move. Once faced with other peoples symbols, they usually and quickly take down their own.

 

[Thoreau72]

I'm no liberal, I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist. Well, to your credit those are probably the only two wars fought that were justified.

Another thing that I must admit it is the different motivations that impelled Christians and Muslims to go to war. For Muslims it was to spread their sick and evil religion. Christians, on the other hand, can hold their heads high. They went off to war for the far nobler aims of greed and avarice.

Which leads me to a question. Being neither a Christian nor a Muslim who should I admire more? Muslims who go out and kill because Mohamed commanded them to, or Christians who go out and kill in spite of what Jesus taught?

Onward Christian Soldiers!!! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

 

[Bezukhov]

Onward Christian Soldiers!!! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

Well I suppose all that shooting and killing by His followers would give Him a massive stiffy.

 

[mike2810]

It is the foot in the door or the camel's nose into the tent. "Oh yeah, that cross is not really a Christian marker" Then the next time a blatantly Christian marker, plaque, monument, billboard is put up on the local courthouse or city hall, the argument in defence will be the "Oh come on, that's just part of our culture like the Bladensburg Cross, it's not really Christian don't ya know"

The problem with your argument is you are comparing what may happen in the future to something that was constructed in our past. Where was the protest decades ago. Seem nobody had their underwear in a twist back then.


Simple solution: State sales land to Veterans of Foreign Wars organization for $1.00. It becomes no public land. Local/State ensure zoning laws in the area do not conflict with "cross".


It is sad to see what some consider that this monument is an issue today. Suprise some can even see it. It means they have to look up from their smart phone.:mrgreen:

 

[Somerville]

The problem with your argument is you are comparing what may happen in the future to something that was constructed in our past. Where was the protest decades ago. Seem nobody had their underwear in a twist back then.

More probable is fear of consequences if they spoke out.

Simple solution: State sales land to Veterans of Foreign Wars organization for $1.00. It becomes no public land. Local/State ensure zoning laws in the area do not conflict with "cross".


It is sad to see what some consider that this monument is an issue today. Suprise some can even see it. It means they have to look up from their smart phone.:mrgreen:

The plaintiffs have actually stated that they do not wish to see the monument destroyed and would like to see it placed on privately-owned land where it can still be seen by the public. The problem at this time is its location in a small traffic circle. The location may not be able to be sold to a private group owing to state laws governing the marginal areas of public roads and streets. Here in Maine, a two-lane road outside of residential areas has a 10 ft boundary from the edge of paving, a space that the local county or municipality must maintain, keeping it clear of tree growth and any obstructions.

 

[James972]

Oh ye of little faith...do you not know, what is from God cannot be destroyed?

apparently, liberals destroyed the God that might have prevented all the school shootings. Do you understand?