Goshin said:
I addressed it most concisely. In reality, you own that which you can defend, or what you can get others to defend for you.
So might is right ....
Goshin said:
In the early Middle Ages, land was controlled by local warlords (robber barons, the early "nobility" or leaders of armed men who arose as Rome withdrew from Europe) and their armed retainers... they owned or controlled a territory as large as they and their loyal fighting men could defend against all comers.
There wasn't land ownership in the middle ages, it was stewardship and by no means was it absolute.
Goshin said:
Oh, I'm not dense... I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to come up with a way to remove the justification for private ownership of capital, of production: factories and businesses and whatnot. Will a factory get built if someone doesn't invest capital in it? No.... and those jobs will not be created. Someone has to have the savvy to amass enough capital and to build a business and make it profitable... they've "mixed their labor" into its creation and earned their ownership.
You can call it artificial if you like, but it is how we do things. If you replace it with another system, that system will be just as artificial....
Firs you have to justify the exlucsive rights someone has to capital, giving him the power to invest or not invest.
If its mixing labor with nature that creates ownership, why? Also why does that not apply to wage labor?
My point is since property is a function of society, shouldn't it be justified based on its impact on society.
Herin said:
What exactly is fake private property?
What I mean by real private property, what i mean is exclusive rights over something beyond direct possession, so for example I have a toothbrush and call it mine, but thats not what I mean by private property.
Herin said:
I'm sure you would make a claim to the food you found and if you didn't you have no interest in your survival on that island.
What if you claim ownership of the whole island because you found it first, and the guy that shows up has to be yourslave to do anything on the island ...
you don't need to make a claim of ownership on food, you don't need prperty rights to eat an orange.
You need one to own an island and use that to exert authority over others.
Herin said:
I'm talking of history as well. Private property existed always. It was only attempted to be restricted by the leaders of past societies.
No it didn't, in Most middle eastern ancient societies you had no private ownership, it was relative and dictated by the kings/temples.
In the middle ages you had stewardship, in most tribal societies it was collective.