Is it wrong to say "ma'am" (or "sir"

[TheParser]

Red:
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Thanks a million.

But I am an old dog that cannot (or doesn't want to) learn new tricks.

I do not know how to even "highlight," and the term "cut and paste" terrifies me.

I am stuck (technologically) in the 1950s, a decade that I rather liked.



Have a nice day!

 

[Xelor]

It seems clear to me this began as the teacher's problem. Her not liking the term has nothing to do with her work or with the common uses of the word.

It was wrong of her to call her students' attentions to her word fetish. Once she did that, then the students are going to pluck at that string to see what happens.

I think that's the most likely what happened here, though it's also possible the kid simply did it out of habit, which also shouldn't set off a professional teacher.

She's either really new, or entirely too comfortable in her role, or both. Some people can't handle authority at any level.

I'd counsel the teacher, trying to let her down gently that the world isn't going to cater itself to her.

Red:
By what reckoning is a teacher (or any other adult) "out of line" in instructing her minor charges to address her in a particular fashion?

Blue:
Well, yes, some of them, the impudent ones, might, and when they do, they will find out what happens. If the teacher is the sort of disciplinarian I'd expect a teacher to be, the students aren't going to like what happens. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences; moreover, minors don't have any right to speak freely.

Experience was of no ethical value. It was merely the name we gave to our mistakes.
-- Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray​

 

[Xelor]

Thanks a million.

You're welcome.

 

[PoS]

It would only be a problem if the kid was a smart ass who was doing it in a snarky way. I would be very impressed if any of my students said "Yes ma'am". Spoiler alert -- they don't.

Have they called you Mrs. Krabappel yet? :mrgreen:

 

[Lovebug]

I'll use "yes maam" "no maam", "yes sir" "no sir" until I can speak no more.

 

[nota bene]

Thanks a million.

But I am an old dog that cannot (or doesn't want to) learn new tricks.

I do not know how to even "highlight," and the term "cut and paste" terrifies me.

I am stuck (technologically) in the 1950s, a decade that I rather liked.

Have a nice day!

Ah, but you're here, so you are a Netizen! To highlight, just put your curser over a word or phrase and hold down your mouse button while sliding over the word/phrase, and see what happens. If the word/phrase has changed color, you've highlighted. Once you've highlighted, click Ctrl+C to copy and then put your mouse where you want to in you post and click Ctrl+V to paste.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I use Sir and Ma'am virtually everyday in RL.

Learned such courtesies at home and in the military.

 

[ludin]

If I was the parent I would have to have a serious talk with the principal. No way is my child going to get punished and think it's wrong to be respectful and courteous to other people.

The mom did along with the teacher and all the teacher could do was stutter and step over herself as to what he actually did was wrong which was nothing.

 

[WillyPete]

Red:
By what reckoning is a teacher (or any other adult) "out of line" in instructing her minor charges to address her in a particular fashion?

Teacher's have some authority over the students certainly, and if the child was doing this intentionally to get a rise out of her I don't think the punishment is out of bounds.

Not sure I agree regarding any other adult. I doubt many would think it appropriate for an adult to slap a kid for not addressing them properly, as an example.

Her mistake was marking herself as a target for childish trolling. She let them know she cared what they called her, and allowed herself to be manipulated by a 10 year old. Unprofessional, and it'll be following her around for the rest of the school year, at a minimum.

Blue:
Well, yes, some of them, the impudent ones, might, and when they do, they will find out what happens. If the teacher is the sort of disciplinarian I'd expect a teacher to be, the students aren't going to like what happens. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences; moreover, minors don't have any right to speak freely.

When she freaks out over a minor personal quirk, she shows herself as weak to the whole class and her employer as well.

What are the proper consequences for saying ma'am to an adult woman?

 

[Daisy]

No sir, it is not...I'm 65 and still say both...Monday i had blood work done and said thank you, ma'am to the nurse...

 

[beancounter]

Some people are strangely sensitive about it.

In college (80's) a professor addressed a female student as "Miss", and she had a meltdown screaming "I am not Miss, I am Ms."

Again in the 80's while working as a cashier, I said "thank you Miss" after I rang up her order, and she went ballistic, shoved her ring in my face and said "I'm a Mrs." Strange, because in my experience, older women usually like being called Miss, as it implies youth.

I've never encountered a man being openly upset about being called Sir, although the first time someone called me sir, it was a wake up call to how "old" I was.

 

[AlbqOwl]

I got a chuckle this morning when reading that a 10-year-old boy in North Carolina was punished by his teacher for repeatedly using that word when speaking with her.

*****
When I was a mere whippersnapper in my late 60s (I'm now 81), I courteously (I thought) answered "Yes, ma'am" to someone who was (at least!) in her 60s, too. She exploded: "Don't call me 'ma'am'! Why, you are even older than I am!"

And I remember one time on a bus when a young man exploded on the bus when the driver addressed him courteously as "sir": "Don't call me 'sir.' I am not old!"

I am of the old school too and a southwesterner to boot so 'ma'am' and 'sir' are so ingrained in our speech to respect people that it is almost unthinkable to not use them. And they have nothing to do with anybody's age--everybody from four to one hundred and four plus merit that kind of respect. I think it is unfortunate that innocuous terms like that--speech that softens and adds pleasantries to human interaction--fall victim to the radical feminists and political correctness

 

[Blue Dog]

Of course!

Thank you ma’am may I have another...

 

[jimbo]

As a veteran, the Sir and Ma'am was reserved for officers...but for my wife, who grew up in the south, it was just a matter of every day courtesy.

I think those that are offended by such courtesies are simply looking for something to be offended over. :shrug:

Its no more offensive to me than "Have a nice day".

For me, it's always been a courtesy or just being polite. Even 25 YO teachers were sir or ma'am. A sign of respect and a deferral to the chain of authority, if that's the right term. I never considered it a term of age.

I agree, though, if sir or ma'am is your biggest problem in life, you've run out of problems.

 

[jimbo]

I do not know how to link.

I think that I read it on Breitbart, which in turn got it from England's Daily Mail.

In post #6 of this thread, the contributor was nice enough to upload a photo of the punishment: the boy was forced to write that word many times. The article says that he has been allowed to change teachers.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...r-maam-north-carolina-report-says/1108472002/

 

[jimbo]

I mean, I live in the south. You say that to everyone.

I use the terms even with the counter workers at Micky D's.

 

[Xelor]

Teacher's have some authority over the students certainly, and if the child was doing this intentionally to get a rise out of her I don't think the punishment is out of bounds.

Not sure I agree regarding any other adult. I doubt many would think it appropriate for an adult to slap a kid for not addressing them properly, as an example.

Her mistake was marking herself as a target for childish trolling. She let them know she cared what they called her, and allowed herself to be manipulated by a 10 year old. Unprofessional, and it'll be following her around for the rest of the school year, at a minimum.

When she freaks out over a minor personal quirk, she shows herself as weak to the whole class and her employer as well.

What are the proper consequences for saying ma'am to an adult woman?

Red:
Do you have information that wasn't included in the OP?

Blue:
Do you truly not think the "blue" ideas "hold water?"

 

[Excon]

This is a problem with allowing individuals to decide what words mean to them instead of accepting the intent of what was meant.

 

[PleasantValley]

You just couldn't resist an opportunity to slip in a little slam, could you? :roll:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...r-maam-north-carolina-report-says/1108472002/

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/fif...sciplined-calling-teacher-maam-200222136.html
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2018/08/27/teacher-punishes-child-maam/
Fifth-grade boy Tamarion Wilson punished for calling teacher ma'am | Daily Mail Online

Etc.

You would think Sir and Ma'am would be commonplace in North Carolina, one of the last good places on earth.
If God is not a Tarheel, then why is the sky "Carolina Blue"?
One of my buddies told me this once.

 

[PleasantValley]

I think the issue may have been that the student kept doing it after the teacher told him to stop. No idea what her issue was--she's very young, and hearing "ma'am" made her feel old? What?

If she is going to continue teaching in North Carolina, she had best get used to it.

 

[WillyPete]

Red: Do you have information that wasn't included in the OP?

I need special information to propose a hypothetical? You're the one that assigned authority over any given child to any given adult.

What if some unknown kid on the street called me sir, and I got offended?

Apparently by your description it would be alright for me to assign some punishment chore (like writing Sir repeatedly) but I gather it would NOT be ok to slap that kid in the mouth?

What if a 8 year old says the N-word? Can I slug them in the gut then?

Where's the line of my adult authority over rando children? I want to boss them around the right way!

Blue: Do you truly not think the "blue" ideas "hold water?"

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

Children behave childishly. Adults rise above that nonsense.

If you're going to be upset over a child's common use of a common term, you're already picking the wrong fight.

This was a pet peeve that this teacher effectively tried to make school policy. She deserves to be compelled to write "I'm these childrens' teacher, not their parent." on the board 1000 times.

If she want to say something to anyone that uses the term she doesn't like every time they use it, that's fine but it doesn't make them wrong, and it doesn't deserve punishment. As I said before, the punishment here was not onerous even if undeserved, and I don't know the complete history.

I'm speaking of the principles involved, and how adults should generally interact with children. Particularly teachers, who are supposedly trained on dealing with children.

 

[nota bene]

I've never gotten that connotation. Like, moms use that to their kids. Hell, I say sir, ma'am to my dogs! :lol:

I think you're doing it wrong--I expect (forlornly) my doggie to say "Yes, ma'am" to me, but I (generally) say "sir" and "ma'am" to my kitty-people. It's a question of ownership, I think.

Although it seemed like everybody else's parents did require "sir" and "ma'am" at home, my parents didn't. And so I didn't either unless I was mega-pissed, and the when I heard the sullen "Yes," I'd demand "Yes what?" and receive a grudging "ma'am." But I did say "sir" and "ma'am" to everybody else, and so did my kids.

If you're speaking to someone older, anybody older, it's "sir" or "ma'am." And you hold the door open for him or her too. It's automatic.

 

[JANFU]

I use the words ma'am and sir routinely and I expect my grandkids to use them when addressing adults.

This teacher to hand out punishment for this?


View attachment 67239128

And we wonder why some people think or school systems suck.

I solved half of the Ma'am/Sir problem quite some time ago. And yes it works

In line at the grocery store, an elderly woman put the divider down or something like that, I looked at her, and stated, Thank you Miss. Well she lit up, big smile and IIRC stated words to the effect, do you know how long it has been since someone called me Miss and thanked me. Yep it works well.

Now the Sir thing. Does not and never did bother me. If I am seated at a restaurant , server male, shopping in a store, person helping me male, I call him Sir.

 

[Xelor]

I need special information to propose a hypothetical? You're the one that assigned authority over any given child to any given adult.

What if some unknown kid on the street called me sir, and I got offended?

Apparently by your description it would be alright for me to assign some punishment chore (like writing Sir repeatedly) but I gather it would NOT be ok to slap that kid in the mouth?

What if a 8 year old says the N-word? Can I slug them in the gut then?

Where's the line of my adult authority over rando children? I want to boss them around the right way!




I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

Children behave childishly. Adults rise above that nonsense.

If you're going to be upset over a child's common use of a common term, you're already picking the wrong fight.

This was a pet peeve that this teacher effectively tried to make school policy. She deserves to be compelled to write "I'm these childrens' teacher, not their parent." on the board 1000 times.

If she want to say something to anyone that uses the term she doesn't like every time they use it, that's fine but it doesn't make them wrong, and it doesn't deserve punishment. As I said before, the punishment here was not onerous even if undeserved, and I don't know the complete history.

I'm speaking of the principles involved, and how adults should generally interact with children. Particularly teachers, who are supposedly trained on dealing with children.

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it.
-- Voltaire​

 

[Anarchon]

I grew up in the south. Ma'am and sir are courtesies, and signs of respect. I know husbands that say it to their wives. And, I say it to men younger than me to be polite. It's not necessarily an age-related moniker. That said, I've said it to women out west and they take offense at it. They also don't like my opening the door for them. I'm glad to be back in the south and away from those crazy people.