Is it better to Ignore People like KKK and ANTI FA?

[OlNate]

So you are like the other poster here who believe that because these people think how they think, that should allow people to attack them and destroy property in that name.

It is a shame you don't see anything wrong with that.

By the way, if you were to take your hypothetical case to court, who would be prosecuted? Would those that attacked you be let off because you brought it on yourself?

When it comes to white supremacists, nope, I've said multiple times, I do NOT see anything wrong with that, and I'm happy to own that. Their entire premise is centered around suggesting that some American citizens have more of a claim over their country than others, and that those others should not be equal with them, essentially undermining their rights. What do I care if people take steps to remove their rights? To me they forfeited them by opening the notion that people can be viewed as having different entitlement to those rights.

Regarding my analogy, I specified that it would have been on me regardless to whether they were charged. They likely would be charged...but I'm still the asshole who started it, and in my mind I got what I deserved....mainly because I should have known it was inevitable.

 

[SDET]

I don't see any of what those hate groups advocate as the least bit reasonable.

That's because you're not scratching beneath the surface. Poverty, drug trafficking, other crimes, and such things are fertile soil for Socialism (both National and International Socialism). One thing that greatly strengthened Hitler is that he put Germany back to work. In the late 1930s, NAZI Germany was looking really good to lots of Americans.

 

[SDET]

Antifa isn't a hate group unless you count people who hate NAZIs as a group of haters. If that's the case, I'll remind you that there is a vast difference between hating a group of people for the PHILOSOPHY they espouse, and in the case of the NAZIs, their history of inhumanity, and just hating people for their color or ethnicity. I feel like the conservatives are playing deliberately dumb so they can pretend that when a group of them, who represent the worst of humanity, march for white power, the rest of you can play like the whole thing was just two equally bad "hate groups" hating each other. That is NOT the situation here.

The dishonesty that soothes the butthurt of the right by falsely equivocating about what the NAZIs represent is so cruel and stupid that I can barely contain my contempt for them. Here's a bit of truth for you fascist sympathizers. If you are marching down the street with a crowd of others and you look to your left or right and see someone waving a NAZI flag or chanting white power slogans, you too are a douche bag and an enemy of this country's ideals, even if you aren't goose stepping or sporting a funny little mustache. The phrase "birds of a feather..." jumps to mind.

Shame on you, Maggie, for playing dumb...if you're actually playing.

Who gets to define "NAZI"?

 

[D_NATURED]

Do you think antifa only attacks when Nazis are present?

Do you think the NAZIs are the only fascists?

 

[D_NATURED]

Who gets to define "NAZI"?

What does that mean? Are you trying to soft-sell bigotry and christian hegemony that exists by other names? If you are a bigot a fascist and a white supremacist, who cares what you call yourself, you're an enemy of freedom and democracy, even if you call yourself the GOP.

 

[joG]

This is a political theory I have been working in since Trump got elected. When one of these groups starts getting traction...it always seems like that is because they get legitimized by the MSM. They get press. They get attention. And it seemed to me that when they were ignored...they were irrelevant. Politically they were in the abyss and it wasn't until we started looking into it...that they started coming up.

Do you think we could ignore them at this point and they would lose traction and go away? I don't think we WILL ignore them because Cui Bono says that there is too much to be gained by guilt by association. Or even false association.

I don't know you want to ignore violent political jerks. They can become dangerous. But using them as false ammunition and building up theirs importance in the eyes of the world gives those populist thugs credibility and face, as the Chinese supposedly called it.

 

[MaggieD]

Antifa isn't a hate group unless you count people who hate NAZIs as a group of haters. If that's the case, I'll remind you that there is a vast difference between hating a group of people for the PHILOSOPHY they espouse, and in the case of the NAZIs, their history of inhumanity, and just hating people for their color or ethnicity. I feel like the conservatives are playing deliberately dumb so they can pretend that when a group of them, who represent the worst of humanity, march for white power, the rest of you can play like the whole thing was just two equally bad "hate groups" hating each other. That is NOT the situation here.

The dishonesty that soothes the butthurt of the right by falsely equivocating about what the NAZIs represent is so cruel and stupid that I can barely contain my contempt for them. Here's a bit of truth for you fascist sympathizers. If you are marching down the street with a crowd of others and you look to your left or right and see someone waving a NAZI flag or chanting white power slogans, you too are a douche bag and an enemy of this country's ideals, even if you aren't goose stepping or sporting a funny little mustache. The phrase "birds of a feather..." jumps to mind.

Shame on you, Maggie, for playing dumb...if you're actually playing.

I am not going to have a conversation with someone who treads the infraction line as you have done here. Frankly? If you don't know how to have a civilized conversation about differences in opinion... and about perhaps helping another learn something, I don't know why you're here.

Flex your internet muscles on someone else.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

I am not going to have a conversation with someone who treads the infraction line as you have done here. Frankly? If you don't know how to have a civilized conversation about differences in opinion... and about perhaps helping another learn something, I don't know why you're here.

Flex your internet muscles on someone else.

I agree his comment was needlessly harsh.

Look, I admit I didn't know anything about Antifa. It seems you didn't either. Their name stands for Anti-Fascist. They're not a hate group like you claimed. Do you agree?

They are militant and violent (especially against skinheads and Nazis) but they're not on the same level as Nazis and KKK members who promote hate.

 

[JamesBY]

Well you don't understand English, should I try Spanish?

Your question made no sense in English, so try it in Spanish, please.

 

[JamesBY]

I agree his comment was needlessly harsh.

Look, I admit I didn't know anything about Antifa. It seems you didn't either. Their name stands for Anti-Fascist. They're not a hate group like you claimed. Do you agree?

They are militant and violent (especially against skinheads and Nazis) but they're not on the same level as Nazis and KKK members who promote hate.

Spot on.

 

[JamesBY]

I don't know you want to ignore violent political jerks. They can become dangerous. But using them as false ammunition and building up theirs importance in the eyes of the world gives those populist thugs credibility and face, as the Chinese supposedly called it.

No, they have no cred after VA.

 

[JamesBY]

You posts get more ridiculous one right after the other. They are getting stronger because Trump didn't call them out? How can you believe such crap?

Refuse to believe the truth, Mason66, here as on other boards, you still end up wrong everywhere.

 

[JamesBY]

Who gets to define "NAZI"?

Not the Alt Right.

 

[Absentglare]

This is a political theory I have been working in since Trump got elected. When one of these groups starts getting traction...it always seems like that is because they get legitimized by the MSM. They get press. They get attention. And it seemed to me that when they were ignored...they were irrelevant. Politically they were in the abyss and it wasn't until we started looking into it...that they started coming up.

Do you think we could ignore them at this point and they would lose traction and go away? I don't think we WILL ignore them because Cui Bono says that there is too much to be gained by guilt by association. Or even false association.

No, they have to be addressed when they make noise, but the way in which we address them is extremely important. Inciting violence, for example, is an inappropriate response.

 

[Mycroft]

Only in the fascist mindset would rejecting nazis not be normal.

So who is "not rejecting nazis"?

 

[SDET]

Not the Alt Right.

Actually, the rule of law doesn't care who the perpetrators are. If someone is inciting a riot or committing assault, the legal system has a prescribed way of dealing with that. When the personal characteristics of the accused matter, there is no longer equal justice under the law. If someone is exercising their First Amendment rights within the law, they are entitled to protection.

 

[JamesBY]

Originally Posted by SDET View Post Who gets to define "NAZI"?

Not the Alt Right.

Actually, the rule of law doesn't care who the perpetrators are. If someone is inciting a riot or committing assault, the legal system has a prescribed way of dealing with that. When the personal characteristics of the accused matter, there is no longer equal justice under the law. If someone is exercising their First Amendment rights within the law, they are entitled to protection.

I had to add the blanked material to keep the discussion straight with bolded type. Please don't ever blank the train of speech if your intent is to take it out of context.

We were not talking about law. We were talking about who defines the Alt Right. If we allow only the Alt Right to define itself, it will be a lie.

Alt Right includes white supremacists, neo-nazis, fascists, anti democracy believers, nativists, uber nationalists, and ethnocentrists. Their values are not the values of Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

 

[ocean515]

Greetings, ocean515. :2wave:

:agree: The global elite have had an agenda for many years that includes bringing America into the New World Order, ie One World Government ruled by them. Using constant chaos which divides, not unites, people is just one means of achieving that goal. They have been very busy for a long time getting their supporters into positions of authority - judges, some lawmakers in DC, Governors of many States, educators that teach our children from first grade up through college, and other examples.

Then along came Trump, who appears to have a totally opposite agenda, and he won the election! Small wonder he is being savagely attacked on a daily basis, including the silly nonsense about how many scoops of ice cream he gets - they're p***ed! We are not dealing with nice people who want the best for us - they intend to have what they want, and they're willing to spend whatever amount of money it takes to achieve that!

I can only assume that things will continue to worsen as time goes on and that's not out of the realm of possibility, since their goal is total power over everyone on this planet!

Hi Polgara

:yt

Great post, and factual, although it will likely be attacked by the usual crew. People need to wise up to what is going on. Do the research! Question what is going on.

People need to ask why the country is being driven to chaos. What is the end game?

People are being played by appeals to emotion and propaganda.

The PC crowd has been conditioned to believe that anyone who doesn't agree with the agenda is the enemy. That is absurd.

People need to learn how populations in history have been conditioned and manipulated to follow outrageous beliefs and principles. They are repeating these dark times in history.

Look at what these forces are doing. They put out messages the Republican Party is in disarray. Then comes stories about how the Democratic Party is fractured and ineffective. Who does that leave as the "calm and visionary" forces? People should ask why Sanders and Warren are always glowingly quoted by the media.

Follow the money, and the agenda it is pushing.

I agree it appears it will get worse before it gets better.

 

[joG]

No, they have no cred after VA.

Certainly not for those whipped along in the sh.tstorm.

 

[PeteEU]

This is a political theory I have been working in since Trump got elected. When one of these groups starts getting traction...it always seems like that is because they get legitimized by the MSM. They get press. They get attention. And it seemed to me that when they were ignored...they were irrelevant. Politically they were in the abyss and it wasn't until we started looking into it...that they started coming up.

Do you think we could ignore them at this point and they would lose traction and go away? I don't think we WILL ignore them because Cui Bono says that there is too much to be gained by guilt by association. Or even false association.

Ignore Anarchists? Sure, they dont have any political ambitions.

Ignore KKK/Neo Nazi Trump Scum? Ask the European Jews from the 1930s...

 

[D_NATURED]

I am not going to have a conversation with someone who treads the infraction line as you have done here. Frankly? If you don't know how to have a civilized conversation about differences in opinion... and about perhaps helping another learn something, I don't know why you're here.

Flex your internet muscles on someone else.

Boo ****ing hoo, the big mean liberal reminded you of the legacy of NAZI-ism and didn't accept your equivocation as even being on the same planet as reasonable. Boo hoo.

Would you have preferred I pretend there's any good excuse for the ignorant trash that conservatives have been spewing and that you, yourself, ignorantly parroted? Must I be kind to NAZIs and their right-wing enablers because the alternative is to be called a bully?

There is, perhaps, an "infraction line" that I crossed but there is a human decency line that the conservative establishment is currently pretending doesn't exist and, when it comes to NAZIs, you can no more claim ignorance in the comfort your words offer them as you can say you were just following orders when the GIs come rolling up to the gates of the concentration camp.

Is there any personal responsibility left on the right? Your tears are drops of nothing to me, in a sea of NAZI bloodshed. This isn't about you and Trump, it's about the convenient amnesia that too many conservatives seem to be inflicted with at the mention of the historical record concerning white, christian conservatives and how little their tune has changed in the last seventy years.

 

[Armyvet74]

Greetings, bubba. :2wave:

:agree: I noted with some interest that after ex-POTUS Obama recently announced that he was getting back into politics - I didn't realize he had ever left, based on the fact that his first foreign trip after he left office was to visit people like Merkel and others who agreed with him on political matters such as Trump being elected POTUS when Hillary was "unbeatable" - according to the MSM. Have they forgotten that he started his political career as a "community organizer?"

Now today on Yahoo I read that Obama had posted the "best tweet" on the Charlottesville incident, climbing up from third-place best tweet a few days ago, judging from the number of "likes" he got, again according to the MSM. I wasn't aware that this was a "contest," so why would the MSM take the time to keep a running record of the number of "likes" he got and then make an announcement about him being the "winner," assuming this is even true, and why should anyone even care about that? Was this done to just keep him in the news by any means possible, and why is that even newsworthy when they have proven that they are biased in his favor? He is entitled to his opinion, of course, but this was an unusual riot in view of the fact that the police involved in Charlottesville were told to stand down and not do the job they were hired to do, and as a result many people were injured and three died! Who made that decision and WHY? :thumbdown:

:rantoff:

In fairness, 2 of the 3 were their own (police officers) as a result of the helicopter they were using crashed and not from standing by and observing. Otherwise I agree with ya.

 

[Armyvet74]

Antifa isn't a hate group unless you count people who hate NAZIs as a group of haters. If that's the case, I'll remind you that there is a vast difference between hating a group of people for the PHILOSOPHY they espouse, and in the case of the NAZIs, their history of inhumanity, and just hating people for their color or ethnicity. I feel like the conservatives are playing deliberately dumb so they can pretend that when a group of them, who represent the worst of humanity, march for white power, the rest of you can play like the whole thing was just two equally bad "hate groups" hating each other. That is NOT the situation here.

The dishonesty that soothes the butthurt of the right by falsely equivocating about what the NAZIs represent is so cruel and stupid that I can barely contain my contempt for them. Here's a bit of truth for you fascist sympathizers. If you are marching down the street with a crowd of others and you look to your left or right and see someone waving a NAZI flag or chanting white power slogans, you too are a douche bag and an enemy of this country's ideals, even if you aren't goose stepping or sporting a funny little mustache. The phrase "birds of a feather..." jumps to mind.

Shame on you, Maggie, for playing dumb...if you're actually playing.

The fact that liberals and their complicit media can't understand why ANTIFA should be defined as a hate group is part of the problem here. They don't just hate "Nazis" or fascists, especially when they employ the same exact brown shirt tactics used by the fascists that they claim to hate. The fact is they hate anyone who doesn't think exactly like them and anyone who doesn't toe the same exact ideological mind they blindly call a nazi/fascist/racist/etc/etc like a drunken pirate.