Is Anyone Still On the Fence (Undecided) About Support for the Current Administration?

[Captain Adverse]

The question is, are you unsure about your position when it comes to the Trump Administration or have you settled firmly for or against it?

It seems to me that most of the Forum Membership has taken a stand for one side or the other, either firm opposition or firm support.

Yet we have thread after thread of Anti-Administration and Pro-Administration opinions from several of the most avid opponents/supporters acting as if these posts are changing anyone's minds.

So here we are in the second year of the Administration with the Mid-Terms coming up, and I'd like to see if anyone has no opinion one way or the other.

Why? Hopefully to see how polarized our Forum's microcosm of America is and if there is actually any real wiggle room at this point to justify all the love/hate posts.

Maybe we could turn from that to some more balanced "Focused Issue" posts to debate the merits of specific political actions, rather than the constant 'I hate/I Love" posts flooding the Forum on a daily basis.

So we have four simple options:

NO, I Support the current Administration, and have seen nothing to change my mind.

NO, I Oppose the current Administration, and have seen nothing to change my mind.

I am Indifferent to the current Administration, but am open to persuasion.

Other (Explain).

To open with, I will vote I Support the current Administration for all the reasons I've already posted in this Forum over the past 2 years.

While I recognize President Trump has some faults, including shooting from the hip sometimes without considering what he has said, I also see him as trying his best to actually keep as many of his campaign promises and doing this successfully. That is something rare in past Presidents. So knowing that he is not a smooth-talking "politician," I can forgive that relatively minor problem in exchange for his actions speaking louder than his words.

So what do YOU think?

 

[Blue Dog]

I’m Indifferent to the current administration. I did not vote for him, I still would not vote for him. I cannot stand the Presidents bombastic diatribes, but he is my President and I want him to succeed for the sake of the country.

 

[Kreton]

I will never support Trump. Ever. Beyond that I actively oppose him and what he represents.

 

[bubbabgone]

The question is, are you unsure about your position when it comes to the Trump Administration or have you settled firmly for or against it?

It seems to me that most of the Forum Membership has taken a stand for one side or the other, either firm opposition or firm support.

Yet we have thread after thread of Anti-Administration and Pro-Administration opinions from several of the most avid opponents/supporters acting as if these posts are changing anyone's minds.

So here we are in the second year of the Administration with the Mid-Terms coming up, and I'd like to see if anyone has no opinion one way or the other.

Why? Hopefully to see how polarized our Forum's microcosm of America is and if there is actually any real wiggle room at this point to justify all the love/hate posts.

Maybe we could turn from that to some more balanced "Focused Issue" posts to debate the merits of specific political actions, rather than the constant 'I hate/I Love" posts flooding the Forum on a daily basis.

So we have four simple option:

I Support the current Administration, and have seen nothing to change my mind.

I Oppose the current Administration, and have seen nothing to change my mind.

I am Indifferent to the current Administration, but am open to persuasion.

Other (Explain).

To open with, I will vote I Support the current Administration for all the reasons I've already posted in this Forum over the past 2 years.

While I recognize President Trump has some faults, including shooting from the hip sometimes without considering what he has said, I also see him as trying his best to actually keep as many od his campaign promises and doing this successfully. That is something rare in past Presidents. So knowin he is not a smooth-talking "politician" I can forgive that relatively minor problem in exchange for actions speaking louder than words.

So what do YOU think?

I think ... Yes, the sides have been formed with a few "mostly approve"s and "mostly disapprove"s for the hell of it.
So maybe a more interesting (no offense, Captain) poll would be to produce an anonymous quote and ask for Approve or Disapprove and no fair looking it up.
Something like, oh I dunno, this ...

“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”​

Could be interesting.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Other - while tax breaks through rate reductions are certainly a 'stimulus' they also increase the deficit/national debt. Simply accepting that federal spending need not be tied to (limited by?) federal revenue is foolish and will lead to Austerity Day as federal debt service costs continue to climb the ladder of federal 'budget' priorities. What many call the debt ceiling (credit limit?) has become nothing more than the debt floor since it is routinely increased in either economic bad times or good times simply because it is politically painless for either the party for a bigger federal government or the party for a huge federal government.

 

[WillyPete]

Trump didn't have to become president to be a garbage person.

His "business" practices, intentionally burning investors/vendors and lying to courts told us everything we needed to know decades before he entered politics.

 

[Slyfox696]

My opposition to the administration stems from two major factors. The first is the fact the Trump campaign willfully worked with a hostile foreign government to win the Presidency. Ignore whether or not it is illegal, there is no disputing it is anti-American.

The second is the rudeness and dishonesty with which Trump is President. Trump doesn't even pretend to be a President for all Americans. He clearly just does things for his supporters, even noting he knows it will anger his detractors. He constantly lies, a fact even his own supporters acknowledge. He constantly vilifies the media because they report news he doesn't like, even praising the assault of a reporter just days after a journalist was killed by his own government. He is an embarrassment to our country, regardless of his policies.

I don't support Trump and it has nothing to do with his policies, but rather how he got the job and the manner in which he conducts himself. I've always said that even if you don't respect the man holding the office of President, one should respect the position of President. But when the President himself clearly holds no regard for the dignity of the position, it makes it very difficult to respect the office.

 

[celticwar17]

I chose other.... I like some parts of Trumps Presidency and do not like some parts... I actually agree with a lot of his polices, The biggest issues I have with him is that he lacks strategy in things he is passionate about. He has a hard time being effective strategically because of his ego. It's a double edged sword because I love his anti-pc/saying whats on his mind style, bu it comes with a lot of missed and failed opportunities to look really good or make progress.

I wish he was more strategic in his tariff war with China, trying to get other countries in on it.
I wish he would actually be MORE bold in recognizing Taiwan(though, be within Taiwan's wishes of course)

But, I don't think any Democrat President wopuld have done anything whatsoever about China or trade unbalances... they are complete shills for the international corporations.



I am simply still happy Hillary isn't president.

 

[longview]

Trump was not my first choice, but he is our President, and his administration is showing results
in the face of fierce resistance. I do wish he would back off on the twitter!
I suspect that a lot of people feel he is addressing things that others would not touch because of politics,
like how much our trading partners were taking advantage of us.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I think ... Yes, the sides have been formed with a few "mostly approve"s and "mostly disapprove"s for the hell of it.
So maybe a more interesting (no offense, Captain) poll would be to produce an anonymous quote and ask for Approve or Disapprove and no fair looking it up.
Something like, oh I dunno, this ...

“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”​

Could be interesting.

What folks say about immigration (or any other federal policy/law) is interesting but what they actually do about it is what matters. What we know will happen is that the federal government will grow both in power and cost per capita regardless of which major party holds majority power in DC.

Whether that federal government growth is by constant nibbles and sips or brief spurts of outright gluttony makes little difference in the long run because constitutional promises, hopes and dreams of keeping the federal government within is advertised constitutional bounds (enumerated powers) have been accepted as unnecessary by all three branches of the federal government. The new 'constitutional' definition of federal power is that if something (anything?) is deemed 'important' then the federal government may (must?) address it.

Obviously, DACA/DAPA policy is in direct conflict with Obama's 'rule of law' (enforcement?) is important BS. He simply rationalized it as some folks should get away with jumping the line because others made them do it and/or we let them stay too long so they must be allowed to be officially sanctioned as 'temporary' line jumpers. Of course, to be fair and respectful to those many millions of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country before 6/15/2007 should also have been told to come on in 'temporarily' as well.

 

[VanceMack]

Whole lot of morons shooting holes in the bottom of their boat based solely on their own hatred. Brilliant little ****ers............

 

[bubbabgone]

What folks say about immigration (or any other federal policy/law) is interesting but what they actually do about it is what matters. What we know will happen is that the federal government will grow both in power and cost per capita regardless of which major party holds majority power in DC.

Whether that federal government growth is by constant nibbles and sips or brief spurts of outright gluttony makes little difference in the long run because constitutional promises, hopes and dreams of keeping the federal government within is advertised constitutional bounds (enumerated powers) have been accepted as unnecessary by all three branches of the federal government. The new 'constitutional' definition of federal power is that if something (anything?) is deemed 'important' then the federal government may (must?) address it.

Obviously, DACA/DAPA policy is in direct conflict with Obama's 'rule of law' (enforcement?) is important BS. He simply rationalized it as some folks should get away with jumping the line because others made them do it and/or we let them stay too long so they must be allowed to be officially sanctioned as 'temporary' line jumpers. Of course, to be fair and respectful to those many millions of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country before 6/15/2007 should also have been told to come on in 'temporarily' as well.

Of course, but the intended point was that if a person has to know who owns the quote in order to decide if they agree, it may reveal more than the answer.

 

[Harshaw]

I don't see how support for any President is a binary proposition.

 

[cabse5]

I’m Indifferent to the current administration. I did not vote for him, I still would not vote for him. I cannot stand the Presidents bombastic diatribes, but he is my President and I want him to succeed for the sake of the country.

What makes you different than a never-Trumper? Can you say more than just level of hatred towards Trump?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Of course, but the intended point was that if a person has to know who owns the quote in order to decide if they agree, it may reveal more than the answer.

My point was that what a 'representative of the people' says and what they actually do can be (and too often are) vastly different with no political costs involved. The 'just the facts' press naturally forgave Obama for his racist and xenophobic position on immigration but now hammer's Trump as a racist, xenophobe or full blown Nazi for stating essentially the same thing.

 

[OlNate]

So what do YOU think?

Didn't vote in your poll, since I'm not American...but hopefully you'll permit me to join in the conversation to share my observations.

Whether or not to support Trump seems to go beyond his keeping of campaign promises, or individual policies, at this point. This has become a question of national identity, of who does America want to be, within it's own borders, and on the world stage. When speaking with American friends who do not engage regularly in political discussion, but still despise Trump, it's not because of any one thing he has done in government. It's what he's done TO government. It's not any one thing he's said or tweeted, it's what they feel the sum of what he has communicated says about them as Americans. They are embarrassed. They are ashamed. And you guys really don't like to be embarrassed and ashamed... hehe

Likewise, conservative friends that I have spoken to, who unquestioningly support Trump, do not so because of any particular thing he's done (oh, they know the bullet points, in that way they are actually a little more engaged than my left leaning friends, who have mostly given up pushing talking points), but rather because they hate the Left, or they hate political correctness, or they hate the rest of the world and don't give a damn what it thinks.

As I write this, I recognize the bias I'm inserting between the two sides, and while I thought to correct it, and be kinder to the "side" that I am not a "part of", I'm leaving it in to further illustrate the point...we are going through a similar thing up here, so despite not being American, I must admit to being aligned in ideology with, and therefore sympathize with, the American left...despite often being frustrated with the tactics of your fringe and ours, much the same as you must be with your "side's" fringe.

Each side looks at each other with disdain, and a complete lack of understanding. Trump is the embodiment of this struggle, as he couldn't be more "Right", nor less "Left". And, if I'm reading it right, this has little to nothing to do with policy. I mean, really, has there really been anything all that earth shattering brought into policy? Sure, there have been some piss offs, some steps taken to solidify polarization, but I wonder how different people's lives are with Trump in power than when Obama was in power - in terms of how government policy impacts their day to day life.

Yet, while you want to stay away from the "I Love/I Hate" stuff, that's what all this is about, what 45 has ALWAYS been about, and I do not think that it is limited to one side or the other. The national identity of a country, especially a country as powerful as America, is arguably more important than any individual policy, since it will influence all policies. I think you make a mistake when you try to ignore this aspect of it - I promise you, neither party is doing the same.

So basically, if you are looking for a non-emotional approach to these elections, I'm not sure you'll be happy with the behavior of either side, and as such I'm quite certain both sides have their opinions solidified. It's noble to say "I don't like him, but he is my president, and want him to succeed for the sake of the country" (no diss intended, Blue Dog), there's a big part of your country who feels strongly that he must fail for the sake of the country, since him succeeding goes completely against what they feel is America's national identity. That folks who support Trump cannot understand this mindset, and tend towards hatred when faced with it, merely underlines the divide. I would suggest that there is precious little "united" about your United States at the moment - certainly not enough to have a measured discussion about policies put forward by a figure that has completely divided the nation.

 

[Blue Dog]

What makes you different than a never-Trumper? Can you say more than just level of hatred towards Trump?

Where did you get that from? I have no hatred for President Trump. I attack the words, not the man himself. I actually do want him to succeed. Why would I want ANY President to fail?

 

[cabse5]

Where did you get that from? I have no hatred for President Trump. I attack the words, not the man himself. I actually do want him to succeed. Why would I want ANY President to fail?

I acknowledge you're different than a never-Trumper. What, in your mind, makes you different?

 

[Blue Dog]

I acknowledge you're different than a never-Trumper. What, in your mind, makes you different?

That’s a good question. I have to ponder that.

 

[cabse5]

That’s a good question. I have to ponder that.

Maybe that you accept the results of any presidential election? That you're for the US (but not in Trump's terminology)?

You can't be conservative and blue-dog dem, can you? Has the term conservative been so watered down?

 

[bubbabgone]

My point was that what a 'representative of the people' says and what they actually do can be (and too often are) vastly different with no political costs involved. The 'just the facts' press naturally forgave Obama for his racist and xenophobic position on immigration but now hammer's Trump as a racist, xenophobe or full blown Nazi for stating essentially the same thing.

Yup. And you know it's humorous to watch what's concocted as the "but that was different because" excuse that always follows.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yup. And you know it's humorous to watch what's concocted as the "but that was different because" excuse that always follows.

Both parties have a vested interest in keeping immigration as an 'issue' but doing nothing to change it. Much the same for deficit spending, playing world policman, nation building, campaign finance 'reform' or reducing waste/fraud in public spending. So long as congress critters enjoy a re-election rate of over 90% then nothing much is going to get done other than a continuous growth in the power and expense of the federal government. Vote early, vote often and expect much of the same.

 

[bubbabgone]

Both parties have a vested interest in keeping immigration as an 'issue' but doing nothing to change it. Much the same for deficit spending, playing world policman, nation building, campaign finance 'reform' or reducing waste/fraud in public spending. So long as congress critters enjoy a re-election rate of over 90% then nothing much is going to get done other than a continuous growth in the power and expense of the federal government. Vote early, vote often and expect much of the same.

...and you can add "reform Social Security" to the list if you want to get more granular ... but we'd blow right through the DP word limit if we got granular.

 

[Phys251]

The question is, are you unsure about your position when it comes to the Trump Administration or have you settled firmly for or against it?

It seems to me that most of the Forum Membership has taken a stand for one side or the other, either firm opposition or firm support.

Yet we have thread after thread of Anti-Administration and Pro-Administration opinions from several of the most avid opponents/supporters acting as if these posts are changing anyone's minds.

So here we are in the second year of the Administration with the Mid-Terms coming up, and I'd like to see if anyone has no opinion one way or the other.

Why? Hopefully to see how polarized our Forum's microcosm of America is and if there is actually any real wiggle room at this point to justify all the love/hate posts.

Maybe we could turn from that to some more balanced "Focused Issue" posts to debate the merits of specific political actions, rather than the constant 'I hate/I Love" posts flooding the Forum on a daily basis.

So we have four simple options:

NO, I Support the current Administration, and have seen nothing to change my mind.

NO, I Oppose the current Administration, and have seen nothing to change my mind.

I am Indifferent to the current Administration, but am open to persuasion.

Other (Explain).

To open with, I will vote I Support the current Administration for all the reasons I've already posted in this Forum over the past 2 years.

While I recognize President Trump has some faults, including shooting from the hip sometimes without considering what he has said, I also see him as trying his best to actually keep as many of his campaign promises and doing this successfully. That is something rare in past Presidents. So knowing that he is not a smooth-talking "politician," I can forgive that relatively minor problem in exchange for his actions speaking louder than his words.

So what do YOU think?

I suspect that you're not going to get any undecideds on a forum where people are actively interested in politics. (We've already seen a couple "It's complicated" or "It depends," but those are not the same as "I'm not sure.")

 

[SDET]

I like what the Trump administration has accomplished so far. However, I still think he is a loose cannon and could go off the rails at any time. I would prefer to see a Republican President with less baggage. Any Democrat currently on the radar is NOT an acceptable alternative.