Is anyone else just kind of sick and tired of seeing crap like this?

[Hawkeye10]

When a person tells you that you hurt them, you don't get to decide that you didn't. - Louis C.K.

You can tell yourself you're not a misogynist, but when you do and say misogynistic things, you're not the one that gets to decide that you aren't.

Actually I always get to decide for myself where the truth is, and sometimes that person who is claiming that I am hurting them needs to stop being a victim. Living life takes some level of intestinal fortitude, and some folks seriously need to get busy getting some.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Why is "feminist men" in quotes ? And what the **** are you talking about with "self-styled" ?

I don't understand why you're acting like you know how the world is better than people who are older than you. This isn't a handful of people we're talking about, most men today have some respect for women; i've never seen a woman-hating, manipulative PUA who was truly happy.

And what makes you think "feminist men" don't grasp this subject matter, but somehow you do ? Why don't you listen to people who have had success in light of your failure ?

I am 20ish years older than GATH.

I say that he is substantially correct.

I also say that in time he will find the right woman for him, I get around, they are around.

Now what Gath may not know is that the right woman for him might just turn out to be a proud feminist.

 

[Gathomas88]

I am like 20 years older than GATH.

I say that he is substantially correct.

I also say that in time he will find the right woman for him, I get around, they are around.

Oh, I've never doubted it. I'm just not even really looking right now, because I'm waiting for my situation to stabilize a bit (got the promotion I wanted - I just need to find a full time station to stake a claim in).

Call me old fashioned, but I like to have my "ducks in a row" before doing anything drastic. :shrug:

I've also got to say that all the "misogynist" name calling here is kind of amusing, given that my "rough around the edges" nature actually tends to make up the lion's share of my charm with the women I've met who were into me.

I drink, I know things, and I make really inappropriate comments. What's not to love? lol

 

[_Sal]

So you dismiss generalizations of you as laughable, but generalizations by you are just fine.

Right..

You have no idea of hardship that the author has been through.

Kind of related to this, but not to the topic in general, might benefit you:

wow, that is beautiful

although I try to be mindful of such it is a challenge

thanks for the reminder

 

[Absentglare]

I'm accusing you of either communicating your ideas remarkably poorly, or of basing them off of overly-romanticized and ideologized "white knight" wishful thinking rather than reality.

That's just a new mischaracterization that doesn't answer my question. Either you are accusing me of dishonesty, in which case you should be capable of explaining what you think i'm dishonest about, or you're not.

Again, you're not talking about "respect for women."

Yes, yes i am. When i say that you should not simply walk up to a random woman and start grinding her, i am doing so because i think that is disrespectful. I think it is better to ease in to situations like that, rather than jumping into them (which may even qualify as sexual assault).

You're talking about slavish adherence to a dogmatic feminist ideology which blatantly puts women and their concerns ahead of men. That's not even remotely the same thing.

Not at all. That's the strawman you're dragging around to excuse your own unwillingness to appreciate another set of viewpoints.

No, what I'm saying is that they're not exactly the innocent little wallflowers, just waiting to be "violated" by Male "assailants," the popular feminist narrative wants to make out.

You are grossly misrepresenting the feminist narrative. You are demonstrating an, at this point, intentional misunderstanding of feminism.

The feminist narrative is that women should have control over their own bodies. They should not have their body parts grabbed by self-centered men. They should not be expected to simply endure sexual assault.

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that ?

Women are no better or worse than men. Quite frankly, a large part of the reason why men behave they do in the first place is in reaction to female behavior, and vice versa.

In short, it takes "two to tango." Neither side is either purely "aggressor" or "victim" here.

This really shouldn't be such a controversial thing to admit. :roll:

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that either gender can err. I already explained to you that women can be aggressive and commit sexual assault- and i can assure you that it's NOT a pleasant thing to receive.

But look at your language here :

"...a large part of the reason why men behave they do in the first place is in reaction to female behavior, and vice versa.

In short, it takes "two to tango." "

This implies that women's behavior is partially to blame for men's behavior, and vise versa. That is a ridiculously stupid view, and it is, essentially, blaming the victim.

Claiming that neither men nor women are ALWAYS the aggressors is fair. Who claimed otherwise ?

Claiming that men wouldn't sexually assault women if women weren't *oh so horrible* to men is absolutely despicable.

So please, be more careful with your language if you're not trying to make excuses for sexual assailants.

 

[Absentglare]

I am 20ish years older than GATH.

I say that he is substantially correct.

I also say that in time he will find the right woman for him, I get around, they are around.

Now what Gath may not know is that the right woman for him might just turn out to be a proud feminist.

Are you suggesting that any "alpha male" could break up a relationship by seducing the woman with "persuasion" ?

You honestly think that that's an accurate view ?

 

[Hawkeye10]

Are you suggesting that any "alpha male" could break up a relationship by seducing the woman with "persuasion" ?

You honestly think that that's an accurate view ?

I was speaking of GATHS world view on the war of the sexes being on the whole on target.

 

[sangha]

You typed this:



What did you mean?

It means sexual assault is so common, a woman is lucky to not be raped...and no, we dont have a rape culture

 

[Gathomas88]

That's just a new mischaracterization that doesn't answer my question. Either you are accusing me of dishonesty, in which case you should be capable of explaining what you think i'm dishonest about, or you're not.

Quite frankly, given the rather loopy nature of the thought processes in your arguments here, and how every other statement from you is some kind of "Oh love! Oh joy!" romantic cliche having to do with "passion," or whatever other silliness, I kind of think you're living in "lala land" more than you're being actively dishonest.

Case in point...

Are you suggesting that any "alpha male" could break up a relationship by seducing the woman with "persuasion" ?

You honestly think that that's an accurate view ?

Seriously, what in the Hell is this? When did anyone say anything about "break[ing] up a relationship?" I sure as Hell didn't.

What on Earth are you even talking about?

Yes, yes i am. When i say that you should not simply walk up to a random woman and start grinding her, i am doing so because i think that is disrespectful. I think it is better to ease in to situations like that, rather than jumping into them (which may even qualify as sexual assault).

Whatever. The fact of matter is that some women do legitimately like the more "direct" approach. According to some studies, they're also the ones most likely to give the horny guys prowling around the club what they want; sex.

You are grossly misrepresenting the feminist narrative. You are demonstrating an, at this point, intentional misunderstanding of feminism.

The feminist narrative is that women should have control over their own bodies. They should not have their body parts grabbed by self-centered men. They should not be expected to simply endure sexual assault.

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that ?

What part of "some women like and encourage it" aren't you understanding, exactly?

This implies that women's behavior is partially to blame for men's behavior, and vise versa. That is a ridiculously stupid view, and it is, essentially, blaming the victim.

What "victim," first off?

Secondly, yes, I'm saying exactly that the behavior of men and women feeds into one another. People don't do what they do for no reason. If a guy's embracing a certain strategy, it's most likely because it's either worked for them in the past, or because they have seen it work for other men.

Claiming that men wouldn't sexually assault women if women weren't *oh so horrible* to men is absolutely despicable.

And here's that "loopiness" I mentioned before rearing its head again. No one said anything about anyone being "*oh so horrible*" to anyone. I've said - multiple times now - that a lot of women actually prefer a man who's a bit more on the "handsy" and "aggressive" side, which is precisely why a lot of men embrace that approach.

That's all I said. Nothing more.

You want to call that "sexual assault," fine. The fact of the matter is that no one cares, and no one's going to stop doing it.

The Feminist puritanicalism of your view on this matter is clearly unrealistic.

 

[Gathomas88]

I was speaking of GATHS world view on the war of the sexes being on the whole on target.

I don't even know what he's talking about. I never said that.

 

[Absentglare]

I was speaking of GATHS world view on the war of the sexes being on the whole on target.

Perhaps you should read his actual position before you defend it so you do not mistakenly suggest something like that in the future.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I don't even know what he's talking about. I never said that.

And I have not been paying enough attention to this thread to know exactly what you said, but I know your general views on this subject and you are wise beyond your years. I am also very impressed with your willingness to go where ever the truth of your experience takes you regardless of the programming you have received till now almost exclusively at the hands of the globalist elite now that the church is dying and the schools to include the University long ago did.

You are my friend but more importantly you are right but yet more importantly you have an open mind and you are willing to use it.

Dont let anyone talk you out of what you know, not that I think you would, but I am your friend.

*GIVING YOU A LITTLE ELBOW ACTION IN THE RIBS*

I stand with you.

:cowboy:

 

[Hawkeye10]

Perhaps you should read his actual position before you defend it so you do not mistakenly suggest something like that in the future.

This is what I was responding to:

Why don't you listen to people who have had success in light of your failure ?

This attempt to talk GATH into the idea that he does not know what he is talking about.

I have something to say about that.

So I did.

 

[Absentglare]

This is what I was responding to:



This attempt to talk GATH into the idea that he does not know what he is talking about.

I have something to say about that.

So I did.

He provided a story where, if my memory serves me, his big black friend is aggressive with women at clubs and bars to great success while he doesn't have any success.

I was citing his own statement. I recognize that he has a view. I'm explaining that women are more diverse and complex than what he's giving them credit for being. He's rejecting that claim on the basis of the anecdote, his little story about his friend's success with respect to his failure.

 

[Gathomas88]

He provided a story where, if my memory serves me, his big black friend is aggressive with women at clubs and bars to great success while he doesn't have any success.

Yes, I said that being a bit more aggressive and "handsy" is a tactic which I have seen used to great affect by certain men (more than just one 'black friend,' incidentally :roll: ). I also pretty explicitly noted that I don't use that tactic, because I've never felt comfortable with it. While there's certainly nothing wrong with being more "passive," or "respectful," as you'd put it, it's also certainly never gotten me laid at a club either (which is fine, because I don't really care about that kind of thing anyway... But still).

The simple fact of the matter is that being "respectful" simply isn't what gets you in a woman's pants, more often than not. That's hardly surprising, because Hook-ups really aren't a particularly "respectful" enterprise to begin with. To the contrary, they are animal in basis, and largely reliant upon baser, more primitive, behavior and instincts as such.

Did you just miss the part where actual scientific research pretty much verified these facts?

Women After Casual Sex Prefer 'Aggressive Courtship'

A survey of over 1,000 people found that men keen on a one-off night of passion were more likely to use aggressive strategies when flirting with women.
…

Women were also more likely to respond to this type of 'aggressive' courtship, according to the 'Sex Roles' study by Kansas University.

Secondly, the above is just another example of you being absolutely all over the place in your argumentation. In no way, shape, or form was that particular statement of mine what you were talking about in the post Hawkeye mentioned. You basically seem to be blindly leaping from topic-to-topic, and accusation-to-accusation, whenever you feel cornered.

I'm explaining that women are more diverse and complex than what he's giving them credit for being.

I never came even remotely close to denying this. :roll:

In point of fact...

Different approaches for different girls. :shrug:

Obviously, a "nice" girl is going to like things a different way than a "loose" one, and that goes for all the other different types you're going to run into out there as well. All I'm saying is that, when it comes to trying to get a girl "right this second," and the kinds of girls who will actually allow a guy do that, there does tend to be something of an "accepted form" to it. That form is pretty much what I described.

Is it too much to ask that you go more than one post without either blatantly making something up, or wildly misrepresenting my actual position? :roll:

He's rejecting that claim on the basis of the anecdote, his little story about his friend's success with respect to his failure.

And again... What's with this emphasis on MY supposed "failures." This has never been about me. Just what I've seen, and what I know.

 

[Hawkeye10]

He provided a story where, if my memory serves me, his big black friend is aggressive with women at clubs and bars to great success while he doesn't have any success.

I was citing his own statement. I recognize that he has a view. I'm explaining that women are more diverse and complex than what he's giving them credit for being. He's rejecting that claim on the basis of the anecdote, his little story about his friend's success with respect to his failure.

I had a guy working for me 22 I think at the time, he told me that not once in his life has he gone after a girl. They all come to him. He is good looking, smart, cool and fun, and he acts like he needs to be convinced to spend time with women so they throw themselves at him. Constantly.

I am pretty sure GATH knows what I am talking about, and he is not denying it, what he is saying is that this assertion that this is the way guys should be if they want to score is false, because the guys who do the opposite tend to do much better most of the time.

I think your assertion that he does not know about the variety of women is exactly ass backwards, he is the one arguing that a great variety of tools work because there are a great variety of women different types when the other side is claiming that only a small bag of tools work cause women are so much alike. He it sounds to me is willing to use more tools than other guys tend to be willing to use, so when the time comes he will likely do pretty well for himself.

 

[Gathomas88]

I had a guy working for me 22 I think at the time, he told me that not once in his life has he gone after a girl. They all come to him. He is good looking, smart, cool and fun, and he acts like he needs to be convinced to spend time with women so they throw themselves at him. Constantly.

I am pretty sure GATH knows what I am talking about, and he is not denying it, what he is saying is that this assertion that this is the way guys should be if they want to score is false, because the guys who do the opposite tend to do much better most of the time.

I think your assertion that he does not know about the variety of tools used to get women is exactly ass backwards, he is the one arguing that a variety of tools work, and he it sounds to me is willing to use more tools than other guys tend to be willing to use, so when the time comes he will likely do pretty well for himself.

Oh, yeah. It can and does happen. I just wouldn't count on the so called "penis fly trap" (quoting Markiplier here lol ) approach if "getting laid" is your primary prerogative.

Granted, I might not be the most "approachable" guy on the planet, and some guys might have different experiences with it than I do, but I can count the number of times the passive approach has actually gotten me anything on one hand. Notably, none of them were in clubs. lol

 

[vash1012]

But here’s the thing, dude. Not only have we established that these aggressive tactics work, but the Feminist types who complain about them don’t even attempt to hold themselves to the same standards that they try to impose on men.

A man lies, manipulates, sleeps around, breaks hearts, and generally behaves in a sexually aggressive manner and etca, etca, that’s “bad.” He’s a “misogynist,” or thinks he “owns women.”

A women does the same things? She’s “Liberated,” and “getting back at Patriarchal privilege.” You’re not allowed to talk about or judge her IN ANY WAY YOU SEXIST PIGS!!!1!11!

It’s a power-play, plain and simple. It’s the “Battle of the Sexes” taken to a new field, and - make no mistake - both sides have more than their fair share of “crimes” to account for. I’m sorry, but in that regard, women really don’t get to “have their cake and eat it too.” There’s no reason why we should all behave like “perfect gentlemen” (especially considering that the vast majority of men will never actually get anything that way) when women are going to push such class(less) acts as freaking Amy Schumer, Lena Dunham, or Taylor Swift as being the “new normal.”

Secondly, the other problem is that there really is no set standard or hard and fast rules for what is or is not “acceptable behavior.” Feminists have attempted to impose some, sure. However, none of it works very well in reality – Not for the least reason because many women themselves encourage men to behave in almost the exact opposite manner.

Some women actually like it when men aggressively chase after them, even in venues which might be considered to be socially inappropriate. Some like it when they are groped without permission. A Hell of a lot of women basically embrace an “If you have to ask, you were never worthy of me in the first place” attitude towards male suitors, and won’t give a guy the time of day if he doesn’t make a physical move fairly early on, in point of fact.

Some even will legitimately say “no,” when they mean “yes,” and then act all put out and irritated when a guy doesn’t keep going (I briefly dated one, for God’s sakes – it was really, REALLY confusing lol).

As such, it’s really not fair to judge men overly negatively on this, when women themselves can’t seem to make up their freaking minds regarding whether it’s good or bad. The matter is not “black and white.” We kind of get a lot of “mixed signals.”

Now, don’t get me wrong here. I don’t behave like the men I describe, nor do I think any of these things are necessarily “desirable.” However, given the state of our present culture – a culture which both men and women alike seem to whole-heartedly support on a mainstream basis – I think the level of complaining going on in articles like that in the OP is simply over-the-top, and inequitable to the interests of all the men as whole. After all, a lot of this behavior under discussion here simply comes with the territory.



Ummm... Why, pray tell? What on Earth is there to be "callous" about. Nothing actually happened to the woman. That's exactly why I said that she was being a drama queen to begin with.

I mean… Sure. If a man blatantly harms or violates a woman, he needs to pay for that. If he’s just vaguely kind of a creepy asshole and “hurt her feelings,” on the other hand, then no. She needs to shrug it off and move on with her life. Assholes exist everywhere in this world, and we’ve all got to deal with them. Stop being so sensitive.

There is no “magic bullet” that is going to prevent any of this. Acting like there is is fantasy, nothing less.

The whole thing represents little more than a lot of self-conscious belly aching and sympathy fishing for its own sake, and over something that's ultimately rather trivial at that. That's precisely why I found it obnoxious to begin with.

I think its hilarious you think you can divide the rightness and wrongness of human behavior by gender lines and then still pretend you aren't holding openly misogynistic views.

 

[Gathomas88]

I think its hilarious you think you can divide the rightness and wrongness of human behavior by gender lines and then still pretend you aren't holding openly misogynistic views.

That's not in any way, shape, or form what I did in that post, but okay. :roll:

You seem to be conflating "feminists" with "women" as a generalized whole, and realistic wariness regarding some of the realities surrounding female behavior, or the kinds of behaviors our culture in particular tends to promote, with "hatred." Neither position really works on an objective, logical, basis.

 

[LaylaWindu]

Hey Eleanor! - It's Not Okay.

It's Not Okay.

Some Lefty Facebook "friend" I vaguely remember going to school with a decade or so ago (lapsed Ron Paul 'Legalize it!' Libertarian, turned short, obese, and ugly foaming-at-the-mouth Bern... err... Hillary-loving SJW just in time for the 2016 election - Oh joy! :roll: ) posted a link to this article a moment or so ago. It's basically a long, melodramatic, hyper-preachy, retelling of every single "creepy guy hits on me" experience some 20-something blonde female has ever experienced.

I'm sorry... But, "so what?"

It seems like this has become some big thing for the Left to harp on (especially in the wake of this whole Trump fiasco). I really just fail to see the point of spamming the internet with these kinds of stories.

What is it supposed to accomplish, exactly?

To inform me that creepy assholes exist? Yeah. I'm well aware. I've run afoul of more than a few myself - though, obviously, not in quite the same context.

To tell me that I'm somehow to blame for all of this, or to bring me to guilt? Yeeeaaah... Sorry, but I'm not, and I will not. I've never behaved like any of those men in my life, nor do I have any intention of doing so now.

To tell me that I'm supposed to make the creepy assholes of the world go away... Somehow? Ummm... How, pray tell?

As far as I can tell, this is basically just the female equivalent of the "'Nice Guy' ranting."

i.e. "This one girl was a total bitch to me once! They're all evil!"

Yup. Some people suck. And yup. Some of the ways people find it socially acceptable to behave suck.

At a certain point, however, you've just got to learn to abide and move on with your life. Constant whining isn't helping anyone.

Frankly - particularly with regard to the girl under discussion here - I think that's actually giving these kinds of articles too much credit. The vast majority of the stuff these women describe (one of the men mentioned in the article was later arrested as a freaking rapist, for God's sakes) would never be viewed as being "socially acceptable" by anyone of half-way decent breeding to begin with. They are the exclusive purview of people pretty much everyone already agrees are creeps, weirdos, and belligerent meat-heads.

All this kind of bash-me-over-the-head moralistic storytelling really accomplishes is to "preach to the choir," and give certain kinds of politically motivated men an excuse to "virtue signal" by "me too" reposting it on social media. The whole thing's just a joke.

Anyway... That's my rant for the evening. :lol:

What a creepy rant.

 

[Gathomas88]

What a creepy rant.

What a useless post.

 

[LaylaWindu]

What a useless post.

It was spot on and there's thread posts that seems to confirm that, it's even creepier you couldn't help but to respond. "Text Book"

 

[Gathomas88]

It was spot on and there's thread posts that seems to confirm that, it's even creepier you couldn't help but to respond. "Text Book"

It was spot on and there's thread posts that seem to confirm that. It's even more telling that you couldn't help but to respond - "Text Book," you might even say.

You make useless posts, because you honestly have nothing whatsoever intelligent or insightful to say.

 

[LaylaWindu]

It was spot on and there's thread posts that seems to confirm that, it's even more telling that you couldn't help but to respond. "Text Book."

You make useless posts, because you honestly have nothing whatsoever intelligent to say.

Exactly, your creepy rant inspires you to give a creepy response, confirming the vast creepiness of the original post. Please continue making my point for me.

 

[Gathomas88]

Exactly, your creepy rant inspires you to give a creepy response, confirming the vast creepiness of the original post. Please continue making my point for me.

:lol:

Translation:

"I don't have an argument, but I do have an ego, a complete lack of self-awareness, and a really juvenile/ratchet sense of social decorum, so I'm just going to keep running my mouth for the sake of making noise. 'Cuz, the louder you are, the more right you are! Right?"

Yeeeaaahhh... I know exactly what sort of poster and woman you are Layla, and so does anyone else with half a brain who spent more than two minutes talking to you (or who's seen any of your pictures, for that matter). There's no need to remind us.

I see Walmart featuring prominently in your future. That's about all I can say for sure.