Is abortion a religious issue? Is abortion a state issue? Is abortion a personal issue?

[bongsaway]

Personally I think it's a religious issue pushed by the so-called christians in our government, the supposed pro life folks.

 

[Gordy327]

Personally I think it's a religious issue pushed by the so-called christians in our government, the supposed pro life folks.

So want to make it a religious issue or use religion as a basis for a pro life argument. But that fails as abortion is a legal issue.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Religion? Yes I recommend not having one if you feel it is against you religion.

State? Yes States should ensure access to safe abortions during the first and second trimesters, but they should be able to limit elective abortions in the 3rd.

Personal? Yes, if you are against abortion. Don’t have one.

Glad to help.

WW

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Abortion is a control issue. The women must be controlled. Pregnancy and motherhood is how that is done. Period.

 

[Jetboogieman]

It’s a privacy issue and a medial issue and at its core…

Republicans legislating the way they are doing is one of the biggest expansion of government powers since the patriot act.

And they need to stop.

 

[Gordy327]

but they should be able to limit elective abortions in the 3rd.

Why?

 

[Gordy327]

Abortion is a control issue. The women must be controlled. Pregnancy and motherhood is how that is done. Period.

And cruelty is the point and effect of abortion restrictions.

 

[Credence]

IMO it should be a personal issue with a woman, her family and her doctor.

Government nor religion should have any business in a woman's uterus

 

[Perotista]

Personally I think it's a religious issue pushed by the so-called christians in our government, the supposed pro life folks.

Abortion to me is an issue that should be left up to the woman. But the abortion issue isn’t one that I care about. It doesn’t play into who I decide to vote for. The abortion issue just as well might not exist when it comes to my choosing candidates I want in office.

 

[Individual]

Personally I think it's a religious issue pushed by the so-called christians in our government, the supposed pro life folks.

It shouldn't be an issue at all, but simply a choice for an individual Woman to make should she, for her reasons alone, decide not to birth a child.
Government has a responsibility to protect a Woman's right to make such choice, even if she is a christian.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Why?

Personal opinion.

By 3rd Trimester fetal development is getting to the range of fetal viability. So limiting elective abortions while still allowing for 3rd trimester abortions where the health of the mother is jeopardy seems reasonable.

My wife suffered from preeclampsia with both our children and had to be closely monitored for hypertension and it could have cause a stroke, organ failure, heart problems, coma or death.

Luckily we had a great Doctor who was able to keep both of them and their Mom together long enough for birth.

WW

 

[ColdHardTruth]

So want to make it a religious issue or use religion as a basis for a pro life argument. But that fails as abortion is a legal issue.

I do not agree.

It's always been an issue of religious belief caused by right-wing zealots.

We are approaching a point where we are going to have to start calling the behavior of the right a 1st Amendment violation.

It's long past time that they were told to keep it to themselves.

If they cannot do that, they cannot hold office.

 

[Gordy327]

Personal opinion.

That doesn't mean much, especially in legal matters like abortion.

By 3rd Trimester fetal development is getting to the range of fetal viability. So limiting elective abortions while still allowing for 3rd trimester abortions where the health of the mother is jeopardy seems reasonable.

Viability was a compromise in abortion pre-Dobbs. But what legal basis is there to restrict abortion at all? Elective 3rd trimester abortions are generally not sought or performed anyway.

My wife suffered from preeclampsia with both our children and had to be closely monitored for hypertension and it could have cause a stroke, organ failure, heart problems, coma or death.

Luckily we had a great Doctor who was able to keep both of them and their Mom together long enough for birth.

WW

I'm glad everything turned out well for you guys. Pregnancy is risky by nature.

 

[Luce]

Personally I think it's a religious issue pushed by the so-called christians in our government, the supposed pro life folks.

No religion forbids abortion. The Christian religion just doesn't read their holy book, because they're too busy waving it around.

Genesis 2:7 and Numbers 5:11-31

 

[WorldWatcher]

That doesn't mean much, especially in legal matters like abortion.

You didn't ask for my legal reasoning. You asked "why?", so ya, my opinion does mean much - to me.

If you don't want to value the opinion of others, don't ask. (LOLz, said in good humor.)

Viability was a compromise in abortion pre-Dobbs. But what legal basis is there to restrict abortion at all? Elective 3rd trimester abortions are generally not sought or performed anyway.

I never claimed there were a large number of abortions sought in the 3rd trimester, IIRC, it's ridiculously low - like in the range of 1%. Which is why I said elective abortions, which includes health of the mother and other things (I might add as rape, incest, sever fetal abnormality).

I'm glad everything turned out well for you guys. Pregnancy is risky by nature.

Thank you very much. Appreciated.

WW

 

[Gordy327]

You didn't ask for my legal reasoning. You asked "why?", so ya, my opinion does mean much - to me.

If you don't want to value the opinion of others, don't ask. (LOLz, said in good humor.)

Ok. In discussions regarding abortion, I usually seek legal reasoning, as abortion is a legal (and medical) issue. Many who see my posts on abortion see I usually approach or inquire a legal standpoint when making an argument or challenge regarding abortion. For future reference.

I never claimed there were a large number of abortions sought in the 3rd trimester, IIRC, it's ridiculously low - like in the range of 1%. Which is why I said elective abortions, which includes health of the mother and other things (I might add as rape, incest, sever fetal abnormality).

I didn't say you made a claim. I simply pointed out some facts and inquired about any legal basis to restrict abortion.

Thank you very much. Appreciated.

You're welcome.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Abortion to me is an issue that should be left up to the woman. But the abortion issue isn’t one that I care about. It doesn’t play into who I decide to vote for. The abortion issue just as well might not exist when it comes to my choosing candidates I want in office.

So you have no problem when they decide to strike at the freedom of someone else. As long as they're not coming after YOUR freedom, you're cool with whatever the want to do to someone else. I bet you were a hoot during the civil rights movement.

 

[Blue Dog]

It should be a medical issue. Let doctors and patients be the ones to take the lead on this.

If people want to be anti-birth control and anti-choice by all means breed to your hearts content. Just do not apply that standard to everyone else…..

 

[Perotista]

So you have no problem when they decide to strike at the freedom of someone else. As long as they're not coming after YOUR freedom, you're cool with whatever the want to do to someone else. I bet you were a hoot during the civil rights movement.

As I posted earlier, those who make abortion the issue they decide on who to vote have over the last 50 years or so become republicans and democrats. That issue is already baked into the equation. Only 5% of all Americans list abortion as their election deciding issue. That breaks down 8% of democrats do, assume their all avid pro-choice, 4% of Republicans, avid pro-life with only 3% of swing voters or independents. Who knows which side of the abortion issue they come down on?

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_XLG2Z6p.pdf

Compare that with the 18% who say inflation/prices are they deciding issue or immigration at 13%.

 

[samiam5211]

I think that it is possible for a person who isn't religious to be pro life.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

As I posted earlier, those who make abortion the issue they decide on who to vote have over the last 50 years or so become republicans and democrats. That issue is already baked into the equation. Only 5% of all Americans list abortion as their election deciding issue. That breaks down 8% of democrats do, assume their all avid pro-choice, 4% of Republicans, avid pro-life with only 3% of swing voters or independents. Who knows which side of the abortion issue they come down on?

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_XLG2Z6p.pdf

Compare that with the 18% who say inflation/prices are they deciding issue or immigration at 13%.

OK, so lots of American voters don't care if others' freedoms are being stripped from them. And you're one of them. When you vote republican, that's what you are saying.

 

[butterfly]

Personally I think it's a religious issue pushed by the so-called christians in our government, the supposed pro life folks.

I'm never comfortable with "so-called." Some Christians self-describe as pro-life Christians which is inaccurate because it is very limited. Other Christians self-describe as pro-choice Christians which pretty accurately describes a political view on abortion legislation. I believe if one self-identifies, it should be accepted. I self-describe as a pro-choice Christian.

 

[Perotista]

OK, so lots of American voters don't care if others' freedoms are being stripped from them. And you're one of them. When you vote republican, that's what you are saying.

How do you know how’ll I vote? I fall as of today in that quarter to a third of all Americans who don’t want Biden reelected and don’t want Trump to regain the white house. The problem with the democrats, perhaps you also is that you’re Trump fixated. You can’t see the entire electorate. You’re stuck within the blue cocoon with no windows or don’t give a owl’s hoot about the electorate as a whole. You have no idea how most Americans are looking at this rematch. I’ll give you a clue, 56% of all Americans don’t want Biden reelected, 54% don’t want Trump to regain the white house. 30% don’t want neither one to become the next president. 64% of all Americans want another choice other than Biden and Trump.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_XLG2Z6p.pdf

https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/HHP_Feb2024_KeyResults.pdf

The bottom line is both major parties have and are turning a deaf ear toward the wants, wishes or in this case the don’t wants of most Americans. Both major parties are too full of themselves to realize what is going on in the political world outside of their own windowless cocoons.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

How do you know how’ll I vote? I fall as of today in that quarter to a third of all Americans who don’t want Biden reelected and don’t want Trump to regain the white house. The problem with the democrats, perhaps you also is that you’re Trump fixated. You can’t see the entire electorate. You’re stuck within the blue cocoon with no windows or don’t give a owl’s hoot about the electorate as a whole. You have no idea how most Americans are looking at this rematch. I’ll give you a clue, 56% of all Americans don’t want Biden reelected, 54% don’t want Trump to regain the white house. 30% don’t want neither one to become the next president. 64% of all Americans want another choice other than Biden and Trump.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_XLG2Z6p.pdf

https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/HHP_Feb2024_KeyResults.pdf

The bottom line is both major parties have and are turning a deaf ear toward the wants, wishes or in this case the don’t wants of most Americans. Both major parties are too full of themselves to realize what is going on in the political world outside of their own windowless cocoons.

If the republicans were attacking the rights of Jews would you still be ambivalent? **** the Jews, we need a better economy. Like that's never happened in history.

Understand this: The presidential candidates in 2024 will be Trump v Biden. We've seen both of them as president. Now we get to decide which we prefer. More than that, we have a ton of down ticket candidates, many of whom have taken stands on issues like abortion, IVF, gay rights, voter suppression, and immigration. No, you've made it clear that you do not care about these things as issues that will sway your vote one way or the other.

You're right, I don't give a flying **** how the rest of the electorate feels. If they (and you) elect Trump and a GOP senate, turn out the lights, the party's over. If Trump wins, and the GOP regains the senate, we are done as a democratic republic.

 

[Perotista]

If the republicans were attacking the rights of Jews would you still be ambivalent? **** the Jews, we need a better economy. Like that's never happened in history.

Understand this: The presidential candidates in 2024 will be Trump v Biden. We've seen both of them as president. Now we get to decide which we prefer. More than that, we have a ton of down ticket candidates, many of whom have taken stands on issues like abortion, IVF, gay rights, voter suppression, and immigration. No, you've made it clear that you do not care about these things as issues that will sway your vote one way or the other.

You're right, I don't give a flying **** how the rest of the electorate feels. If they (and you) elect Trump and a GOP senate, turn out the lights, the party's over. If Trump wins, and the GOP regains the senate, we are done as a democratic republic.

You should care. Before anyone can govern, they first must win an election. I don’t care who you are, FDR, Washington, Lincoln, if you lose, there’s not a dang thing you can do for your country. The democrats have decided on a very weak, old, unpopular, unwanted candidate to win an election that they should win easily. Especially against someone like Trump. But their choice and it is the democrat’s choice, not all of America, just the democrats and only the democrats. Their choice gives Trump at least a 50-50 chance of winning if Trump isn’t a slight favorite today.

It's like the democrats choosing to run a tired old nag at the Kentucky Derby instead of a thoroughbred like all the others are running. Again, that’s the democrat’s choice. Democrats make up 30% of the electorate, Biden’s their choice. But apparently not for the other 70%. Trump is the choice of the GOP who make up 28% of the electorate, but not the other 72%.

The difference between you and me is that if I were a democrat, I’d run someone other than Biden. A younger, fresher face with the ability to defeat Trump easily. But I’m not, you are. Your choice to defeat Trump is Biden, but not mine. Biden isn’t the choice of all those swing voters or independents who make up 42% of the electorate either. Neither is Trump as they want someone else. Who will they vote for if they vote at all? I don’t know, it looks like quite a lot will stay home and not bother to vote or choose between two candidates they dislike and don’t want. Some will vote third party against both major party candidates like they did in 2016. Some will choose the lesser of two evils, the least worse candidate in their mind or the major party candidate they want to lose the least. The democrats have made their bed, now they must sleep in it regardless of how the 2024 election turns out.