Interesting video and article about Farm Jobs and how Americans do not want them.

[jonny5]

Mexicans who came here legally don't need or want unskilled menial labor jobs.
Many Mexicans who immigrate legally tend to become rather well-off. Most of them were well off in Mexico, which is why they can afford to come here through the legal process.
In the 19th and early 20th century, Mexicans who immigrated here tended to be quite wealthy.

Im speaking of those on h2A visas. As opposed to illegals.

 

[beancounter]

Have you ever owned a company?

"Peon" could be considered a derogatory term. Perhaps "entry level" would be better...a term widely used in corporations.

 

[NWRatCon]

I am finding this discussion (mostly) very interesting. This is a microcosm of the way global/local economies work. It is a very complex web of interactions, and not always easy to follow.

As an example, Washington State produces 68% of consumable the apples in the United States (60% of the overall crop), but 30% of that crop goes overseas. During the 1990s downturn, however, exports nearly evaporated. That market is hard to recover from, and there is competition. As a result, Washington apple producers pulled out thousands of acres of orchards and converted them to grapes for wine. How a Souring Apple Industry Ripened a Burgeoning Wine Region. Now, Washington is the second largest wine producer in the United States. Both of those transformations had tremendous impacts on local businesses and global markets. As I noted earlier, the dairy industry in the US is huge, but it, too, is facing transformation in a similar fashion.

It is simplistic, in the extreme, to suggest that "raising wages" is the solution to this problem. It is a factor, yes, and a laudable goal. But, there are so many other factors that they swamp that consideration. As checkerboard pointed out earlier, we have been subsidizing the dairy (and so many other) industries for a century, at least. Why would we do that? Well, MOST dairy products are consumed locally. According to the U. S. Department of Agriculture, the average person drinks 18 gallons a year. (That's down from the 1970s when it was close to 30 gallons a year. Moreover, milk has competition, now - almond milk, for instance, has seen sales grow 250 percent over the past five years.) Milk has historically been seen as a "health food", and we want our population - especially the kids - to be healthy, and than means keeping dairy products available, and that means locally, and that means dairy farms. There are 145,530 "dairy workers" in America with an average salary of $22.00 an hour (but that includes even the executive salaries, which average nearly 5x the median) - the category includes everything from the milker to the bookkeeper to managers and salespeople, in the industry. $1/hour raise could mean $301 million in new wages, spread over the industry. Yes, that would boost the economy, but it would also impact profit margins, drive up the cost of milk (and consumer costs overall), and make imports more attractive. Every advantage for one person or another has an effect - ripple, butterfly or other.

 

[NWRatCon]

Wow, I thought most of that was from the various STATE operated Agriculture depts back then.

You are correct, I was inexact/incorrect (missed the USDA reference).

 

[NWRatCon]

Random thought that I didn't really define. We want regulation in business, but a lot of the time it can be harmful for certain types. Small farms have a hard time keeping up with corporate run farms because of regulations that are cost prohibitive for the small farmers while corporations can either easily pay for them or find loophole or they get tax cuts. it is hard to define but if you pay attention to what is going on out there it is seems like common sense is thrown out the widow in favor things that really don't make sense.

Thanks. I agree that regulations, in general, redound to the benefit of larger operators who can more easily absorb the costs - but, then, also usually generate most of the problems, too. I've lived in farm country.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You are correct, I was inexact/incorrect (missed the USDA reference).

Do you remember the tag "Reg. by Penna Dept of Agriculture" showing up on packaged foods?
I used to see it pop up as a little kid on things like butter, peanut butter, cream cheese, ice cream, milk, peaches, applesauce and what not.
And I don't think that all of those products originated in Pennsylvania but my first wife, who grew up in a very large and somewhat famous Pennsylvania farm family, shed some light on some stuff many years ago.

She was almost ten years my senior...yes, the alluring cougar who set her sights on the boy toy.



Anyway, she said that universities in her time taught that there were two basic types of farm layout and operational blueprints, THE IOWA FARM MODEL and the PENNSYLVANIA FARM MODEL.
I don't think that I could stand up and bloviate on the differences and details of the two models anymore, but I remember her giving me a mental sketch of some of the basics.
Linda was a Tri-Delt graduate of Penn State. a legacy coed...Go Nittany Lions.

She said that her family farm was selected back in the 1920's as THE PREEMINENT EXAMPLE of a Pennsylvania Farm and that Penn State conducted a year long study on the matter, and that her grandfather and father both enjoyed a fair amount of help and innovation from Penn State when she was a child, and that there always seemed to be pleasant weekly visits FROM "the Penna Dept. of Agriculture" because they were keenly interested in the ways that the McPherson family ran Maple Lawn Farm.

Anyway, that led me to understand that perhaps the various STATE departments of agriculture enjoyed a bit more autonomy and played at least an equal if not bigger role than the federal cabinet level agency, USDA. Perhaps it might have been some sort of interlocking system where USDA delegated the various regulatory jobs to different State Ag Depts to spread out the specialization and the workload.

So maybe butter, peanut butter, cream cheese, ice cream, milk and applesauce got delegated to PA Ag while maybe oranges, grapefruits, almonds, lettuce and the like might have fallen under the purview of California or Texas, or Florida's Ag Depts.

 

[NWRatCon]

I was, in fact, thinking of early 1930 cases from law school (no, not from when they were decided, I'm not that old! We studied them when discussing interstate commerce). State agriculture departments were, at the time, the primary regulators for quality and safety, but they tended to be very parochial - establishing standards that only local dairies could comply with. Since dairy products cross state lines, the issues dealt with federal preemption and burdens on interstate commerce. Minnesota milk came up a lot.

 

[Good4Nothin]

CNN is trying to show that there are jobs Americans will not take, and therefore immigration should not be limited. But many of the comments here show that CNN is wrong, and Americans would take these jobs if they paid better.

Trump got elected partly because he promised to restrict immigration and protect American workers' jobs. CNN wanted to prove him wrong with this video, but they didn't.

 

[Individual]

One possibility is to satisfy the "job contact" requirement to continue receiving UI benefits. Other possibilities include that the help wanted ad did not include the wage offered, lack of promotional opportunity or work schedule.

In my early working life I worked many jobs I didn't want, if for no reason other than to provide 'some' of my most basic needs.
There are likely a great many other jobs Americans do not want to do, and will not do, as long as government eliminates the need for them to be done by Americans.

 

[Individual]

That's kinda why I want the 15 mw, wipe out all the inefficient bloat corporate welfare has brought to so many markets.

Yeah, what's there now will fail. But the demand they filled will remain, and someone more streamlined and tailored to the current markets will step in and fulfill that demand.

If a dairy farmer needs 20 people to run his farm and he can't pay them, raises his prices and goes out of business.

Then a guy like me can come in, buy that farm pennies on the dollar restructure it to use 5 people and automate the rest. Pay those five people a living wage. And turn a profit.

Thats the advantage of capitalism over communism. If we take that away, and prop these dumb****s up that want to stay the same and not adapt to market conditions, then we remove the reason capitalism doesn't ever fail.

The people who can't afford a 15 minimum wage, needs to go the way of the dinosaur. It's a red flag that their business model isn't sound.

And much like when capitalism was invented by throwing the serf's off the land and building factories where their houses once stood. It's time to throw some people out and rebuild.

What should be done with the people who can not be made worth paying a $15 minimum wage?

 

[Thingfish]

Why are you referring to "Americans" as only white people?

cause he’s a racist

 

[Luther]

Yeah we do, but then again we also have a soft society where hard work is not instilled into our children at an early age. Capitalism is all about easy and big money. Change the system where you show children they have to work to earn a living and the need for Welfare will go away. Show them (through TV and Media) how many people got rich by coming up with a new idea, a new way of doing things and never had to do a day's work and what you end up with is lots of people that failed and had to go on welfare to live

It all begins with education and by not pushing Capitalism's benefits from an early age. Children learn what they are taught.

Capitalism is all about easy and big money

Yeah right, all easy money..

There was no self sacrifice in starting up a business(LOL)

It all begins with education

It's the left that controls education

 

[ThoughtEx.]

What should be done with the people who can not be made worth paying a $15 minimum wage?

Last I checked, most places paying minimum wage operated on an at-will employment basis. Point to where I said that should be changed.

Go on now, point it out.

I just called for farmers to be run out of business and driven into poverty so i can get their land on the cheap one day.

You think I give a **** about firing some dip****s getting high outback and listening to their pleas of needing a job?

I'm a capitalist. I'll smoke the joint with them, then fire them for smoking the joint and dock their pay for the time they worked high. Because you know I'm firing em at the end of the day.

 

[Individual]

Last I checked, most places paying minimum wage operated on an at-will employment basis. Point to where I said that should be changed.

Go on now, point it out.

I just called for farmers to be run out of business and driven into poverty so i can get their land on the cheap one day.

You think I give a **** about firing some dip****s getting high outback and listening to their pleas of needing a job?

I'm a capitalist. I'll smoke the joint with them, then fire them for smoking the joint and dock their pay for the time they worked high. Because you know I'm firing em at the end of the day.

What I responded to was your words below.
"The people who can't afford a 15 minimum wage, needs to go the way of the dinosaur."
Your post appeared to be solely referring to employers not affording to pay a $15 minimum wage, and if true my question was asking "What should be done with the people who can not be made worth paying a $15 minimum wage?."

Are you then suggesting that the minimum wage should be $15, and no employed person would earn less than that while those unemployed would receive nothing from government, and be forced to find employment?
Is the above question a correct assessment of what you're saying?

 

[ThoughtEx.]

What I responded to was your words below.
"The people who can't afford a 15 minimum wage, needs to go the way of the dinosaur."
Your post appeared to be solely referring to employers not affording to pay a $15 minimum wage, and if true my question was asking "What should be done with the people who can not be made worth paying a $15 minimum wage?."

Are you then suggesting that the minimum wage should be $15, and no employed person would earn less than that while those unemployed would receive nothing from government, and be forced to find employment?
Is the above question a correct assessment of what you're saying?

I could not have been any more clearer in what I said, if you didn't get it that is your problem. No one paid me to be your English teacher...

 

[NWRatCon]

An entire discussion could/should be had on minimum wages and where that point should be, but that is missing, in this discussion, the employment problem. It's not the wage, it is the willingness of people to do the work. More importantly, local people willing to do the work. An important factor about migrant labor is that it willingly moves (it's in the name). These are workers willing to move to the work. The American workforce (especially at that wage point) is largely sclerotic. Yeah, I can get people to work for $12.00 an hour, but not to move somewhere to work for that, and given the wage, not likely to be able to afford to.

 

[Individual]

I could not have been any more clearer in what I said, if you didn't get it that is your problem. No one paid me to be your English teacher...

So both those who lack the ability to pay AND those who lack the skills/ability to perform labour worth being paid, $15 an hour should go the way of the dinosaur.
That sounds fair enough to me.

 

[Oborosen]

Good for you. What percentage of people in the United States grew up on a farm raising cattle from age 12? I would say you are the exception and not the norm!m You got accustomed to hard work from an early age. What percentage of the population had the same growing up experiences that you had where you were doing hard work at age 12?

How knowledgeable are you for working as a farm lawyer or an agricultural analyst who earn in excess of $100,000 a year. If I was a young man, I would not look to work as a laborer for $12 an hour but step up to the more lucrative jobs in the industry. Nonetheless, if everyone does that, who is there to toil the fields or milk the cows.

Then don't work in a job that is readily available while you try to find one that better suits your skills. Aside from that, there is nothing more to worry about. You'll several days, or weeks even. Not having income, because you thought a current form of employment was somehow beneath you, or not worth the effort.