Intelligent Fantasy

[Groucho]

My second novel has just been released as an e-book; the paperback will be available within a month.

 

[AgentM]

For those of you who are fantasy fans, you will know what I mean. Most fantasy is simple drivel, a cheap knockoff of Tolkien, often replete with plot holes roughly the size of the author's ego.

That being said, I have found a few decent authors. One that I've read quite a bit of in the past year is Steven Erikson. His Malazan Book of the Fallen series is excellent, although particularly dense. The only negative that I've seen is that I don't think he proofs his writing much - some of his sentences have just horrible structure and are overly obtuse.

Steven Erikson is pretty awesome, he actually lives in my city, and went to my university I believe!

I would recommend Tad Williams for intelligent fantasy. I'm reading his book Shadowmarch, and it seems pretty intelligent, with interesting characters and such. In fact, it seems to be primarily character driven.

 

[Redress]

My second novel has just been released as an e-book; the paperback will be available within a month.

Congratz to you sir! Hope your book does well!

 

[AgentM]

My second novel has just been released as an e-book; the paperback will be available within a month.

Congrats Groucho!

 

[the makeout hobo]

Steven Erikson is pretty awesome, he actually lives in my city, and went to my university I believe!

I would recommend Tad Williams for intelligent fantasy. I'm reading his book Shadowmarch, and it seems pretty intelligent, with interesting characters and such. In fact, it seems to be primarily character driven.

Tad Williams is a crazy bastard and I mean that in the best sense. My ex made me read Otherland... I think I needed push pins and colored string to figure out what went on. But i loved it

 

[Groucho]

Tad Williams is a crazy bastard and I mean that in the best sense. My ex made me read Otherland... I think I needed push pins and colored string to figure out what went on. But i loved it

He's a very nice guy with a great taste in music too. If you're interested in an interview I did with him on my blog, click the link:

Interview with NY Times Bestselling Author Tad Williams Michael A. Ventrella's Blog

 

[AgentM]

Tad Williams is a crazy bastard and I mean that in the best sense. My ex made me read Otherland... I think I needed push pins and colored string to figure out what went on. But i loved it

I read Otherland a while ago, it didn't really grab me enough to make me want to read the sequels from what I remember. However, Shadowmarch is much better.

 

[the makeout hobo]

I read Otherland a while ago, it didn't really grab me enough to make me want to read the sequels from what I remember. However, Shadowmarch is much better.

the first book is slow because it's set up for the next three. they get amazing.

 

[kaya'08]

My second novel has just been released as an e-book; the paperback will be available within a month.

What is it?

 

[Groucho]

What is it?

Click on the link in my signature to read reviews and excerpts.

 

[Zyphlin]

Wow, I thought that the George R.R. Martin books were slow to get into. Trying to read Eriksons malazan books and I just can't seem to get into it despite having a lot of friends tell me they're real good.

 

[AgentM]

Wow, I thought that the George R.R. Martin books were slow to get into. Trying to read Eriksons malazan books and I just can't seem to get into it despite having a lot of friends tell me they're real good.

Well if you want 100% action, then maybe they're not for you.

 

[Zyphlin]

Well if you want 100% action, then maybe they're not for you.

Trust me, I don't need 100% action. My favorite midevil-ish fantasy type books I've read has been George R.R. Martin's and while the action in it is great, its usually over pretty quick. Its far more focused around character development, politics, etc.

Granted, Erikson's will likely turn into the same thing as Martin's did for me and within a 100 pages or so it'll have me hooked. Its just even harder for me to keep picking up than Martin's was. I went back and reread the Song of Ice and Fire series and found the first 100 pages FLEW by then. I think the issue is in such immersive worlds as Martins and from what I hear Erikson's, you get thrown into it and it'll either hook you right off or just be boringly tiresome to read about characters and events that have no real meaning or depth to them at all until you get to the grander scope of things...making it hard to get into.

That was really one of my few complaints about Martin's work (That and he's taking too damn long getting the next book out) and it seems to be present in Erikson's too.

 

[AgentM]

Trust me, I don't need 100% action. My favorite midevil-ish fantasy type books I've read has been George R.R. Martin's and while the action in it is great, its usually over pretty quick. Its far more focused around character development, politics, etc.

I think I've read the first book in that series, I need to read it again and read the whole series. Supposedly it's based on the Wars of the Roses in England.

Granted, Erikson's will likely turn into the same thing as Martin's did for me and within a 100 pages or so it'll have me hooked. Its just even harder for me to keep picking up than Martin's was. I went back and reread the Song of Ice and Fire series and found the first 100 pages FLEW by then. I think the issue is in such immersive worlds as Martins and from what I hear Erikson's, you get thrown into it and it'll either hook you right off or just be boringly tiresome to read about characters and events that have no real meaning or depth to them at all until you get to the grander scope of things...making it hard to get into.

That was really one of my few complaints about Martin's work (That and he's taking too damn long getting the next book out) and it seems to be present in Erikson's too.

Yeah, to be fair Erikson has a very big and detailed world to lay out and explain, so you have to be patient with that.

 

[OxymoronP]

I want a fantasy novel that uses magical creatures in the historical setting of WW2.


Elfs are Nazis

Orcs and Goblins are Commies

Humans are naturally Americans

The Dwarfs are British

French are Hobbits

 

[AgentM]

For genearlly lighthearted fantasy that dives into deep waters unexpectedly, it's hard to beat Terry Pratchet's Discworld series.

Discworld extracts

On a vampire who has turned into a bat in order to spy on a couple of old women, but tragically forgot to take into account a vital aspect of the local environment:

Vampires have risen from the dead, the grave and the crypt, but have never managed it from the cat.
​

On the nature of Darkness:

Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it's wrong. No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.
​

On the philosophy of witches:

'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.'
​

On Psychology:

Granny Weatherwax had never heard of psychology and would have no truck with it even if she had. There are some arts too black even for a witch.
​

On Atheism:

Besides, when you hit your thumb with an eight-pound hammer it's nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout, 'Oh, random-fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-out-moded-concept on a crutch!'
​

Folk wisdom:

Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
​

More cat stuff:

Nanny Ogg also kept a cat, a huge one-eyed gray tom called Greebo who . . . opened his eye like a yellow window into Hell.
​

And of course, quotes from “Good Old Bill Door” (who always speaks in capitals):

IT'S BECAUSE OF THE UNCERTAINITY PRINCIPLE.
'What's that?'
I'M NOT SURE.
​

---

THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS JUST US.
​

---

'Are you Death?'
IT'S THE SCYTHE, ISN'T IT? PEOPLE ALWAYS NOTICE THE SCYTHE.
​

Finaly, a personal favorite, Granny Weatherwax, a “Good Witch” has a decades-delayed confrontation with her evil sister Lily, as we learn that witches apparently come in pairs – a good one and a bad one:

Granny stepped forward, her eyes two sapphires of bitterness.

"I'm goin' to give you the hidin' our Mam never gave you, Lily Weatherwax. Not with magic, not with headology, not with a stick like our Dad had, aye, and used a fair bit as I recall - but with skin. And not because you was the bad one. Not because you meddled with stories. Everyone has a path they got to tread. But because, and I wants you to understand this prop'ly, after you went I had to be the good one. You had all the fun. An' there's no way I can make you pay for that Lily, but I'm surely goin' to give it a try."
​

I'm a big Terry Pratchett fan! I'm glad that he's still writing Discworld novels even with the onset of alzheimers (although he has help now).

 

[the makeout hobo]

I want a fantasy novel that uses magical creatures in the historical setting of WW2.


Elfs are Nazis

Orcs and Goblins are Commies

Humans are naturally Americans

The Dwarfs are British

French are Hobbits

It's not exactly the same, but you're looking for Harry Turtledove's "Darkness" books.

And correct me if I'm right, but the British should be hobbits since the hobbits were modeled after English country life. The Dwarves were modeled more after the Jews than anyone else.

 

[AgentM]

It's not exactly the same, but you're looking for Harry Turtledove's "Darkness" books.

And correct me if I'm right, but the British should be hobbits since the hobbits were modeled after English country life. The Dwarves were modeled more after the Jews than anyone else.

One thing (of many) that I found interesting in LOTR was how Tolkien hinted about the different races and peoples not trusting/liking each other very much, even though they came together for a common cause. There were a lot of underlying tensions between them. I wish Tolkien had expanded on that a bit.

 

[the makeout hobo]

One thing (of many) that I found interesting in LOTR was how Tolkien hinted about the different races and peoples not trusting/liking each other very much, even though they came together for a common cause. There were a lot of underlying tensions between them. I wish Tolkien had expanded on that a bit.

Am i the only one that thought his elves were a bit too mary sue?

 

[AgentM]

Am i the only one that thought his elves were a bit too mary sue?

Yeah, I agree. Tolkien did a better job with the dwarves, showing how they messed up (probably unleashing the Balrog etc). The humans had divisions, with Rohan selling horses to Mordor before the war, and all that, the hobbits were insular and mistrusting of others. The elves were too goody goody.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Yeah, I agree. Tolkien did a better job with the dwarves, showing how they messed up (probably unleashing the Balrog etc). The humans had divisions, with Rohan selling horses to Mordor before the war, and all that, the hobbits were insular and mistrusting of others. The elves were too goody goody.

They were too beautiful and regal and perfect and wise. They just didn't seem very human (taken in a general sense).

 

[Mach]

Wow, I thought that the George R.R. Martin books were slow to get into. Trying to read Eriksons malazan books and I just can't seem to get into it despite having a lot of friends tell me they're real good.

Had a friend quit after 1/2 of book one. Very tragic.
Fine, skip to book 2, or knock out all of book one at least before you stop.

After book one I swear in the ten million pages worth in that series it just never hit long dull spots like 90% of other books.
The first book, get through it, please. It's tragic to think a serious fantasy reader could miss the badassness of that series. Some books have 2-3 cool characters, I lose count in this series. He's got like 15 cool characters a book, some continue on, some don't, etc., and so little of it is cliche.

Don't be concerned if you miss things early on, it doesn't rely on you picking up ever little detail, because he jam packed it with 103330 details, he didn't skimp.

 

[AgentM]

They were too beautiful and regal and perfect and wise. They just didn't seem very human (taken in a general sense).

Yeah, although he may have intended that as a deeper metaphor, since the elves were leaving. All the goodness leaving the world, etc....

 

[OxymoronP]

It's not exactly the same, but you're looking for Harry Turtledove's "Darkness" books.

And correct me if I'm right, but the British should be hobbits since the hobbits were modeled after English country life. The Dwarves were modeled more after the Jews than anyone else.

Perhaps you are correct about the hobbits. But the Dwarfs are portrayed usually as dim witted, physically strong, and manual laborers none of which fits the Jewish stereotype. If any one is the Jews, it has to be the Leprequans.

 

[spud_meister]

Perhaps you are correct about the hobbits. But the Dwarfs are portrayed usually as dim witted, physically strong, and manual laborers none of which fits the Jewish stereotype. If any one is the Jews, it has to be the Leprequans.

they were also portrayed as somewhat greedy and had a hoarding tendency, which fits stereotype