Indonesian men caned for gay sex in Aceh

[TurtleDude]

I don't know how true that is, but I do know that they have "morality police" that go and try to enforce Sharia law (Telling women they aren't dressed properly, etc.).

my wife isn't exactly a fashionista but God help some jihadi if he got in her face about how she was dressed :mrgreen:

 

[TurtleDude]

I am curious, what or how do you propose overcoming that deficit? It is obvious that marginalization, ridicule and condemnation, especially of a faith followed by well over a billion people among which a very tiny, a very very tiny percentage are extremists?

I don't know if what you say is true. I have no idea how many are extremists versus those who claim they condemn the movement while tacitly supporting the extremists. It seems to be similar to Irish in the USA and the IRA. I don't know, I just know that we need to be extremely proactive as a country in stamping out Jihadist terrorism in this country and against our people abroad.

 

[TurtleDude]

Frankly, Islam is a horrible, horrible doctrine. But pointing out conservative/Christian hypocrisy is not the same as defending it (even if, imo, it is a bit pointless/fruitless).

I am an agnostic and I constantly bash the silliness of the bible thumping right in this country but right now I really don't worry about holy rollers blowing up a mall or driving trucks through the Memorial Day parade anywhere in the USA

 

[BillRM]

I don't know how true that is, but I do know that they have "morality police" that go and try to enforce Sharia law (Telling women they aren't dressed properly, etc.).

An we have a US Christians school that will to tell a honor student that she can not walk down the aisle to graduation due to her becoming pregnant.

An of course laws being pass with the aid of US Christian leaders to either killed or at least place gays in prison for decades for being gay in Africa.

So how are such so call Christians better then Islam moral police?

 

[TheGoverness]

An we have a US Christians school that will to tell a honor student that she can not walk down the aisle to graduation due to her becoming pregnant.

An of course laws being pass with the aid of US Christian leaders to either killed or at least place gays in prison for decades for being gay in Africa.

So how are such so call Christians better then Islam moral police?

Who said they were better?

 

[BillRM]

I am an agnostic and I constantly bash the silliness of the bible thumping right in this country but right now I really don't worry about holy rollers blowing up a mall or driving trucks through the Memorial Day parade anywhere in the USA

At the moment you are right but that did not keep two men from dying and one man wounded for defending two Muslims women on a train at the hand of a 'good' anti-Muslims Christian either.

footnote look at who did set off a bomb at Centennial Olympic Park and hint it was not a Muslim either.

 

[BillRM]

Who said they were better?

Strange as I see constant attacks on a billion or so Muslims due to the actions of a small percent of them and yet no such constant attacks on Christians due to the actions of a small percent of them.

Along with false claims that some Christians do not killed or set off bombs unlike Muslims or harm gays for being gay for that matter.

 

[JMaximus]

It is always useful to point out evil under the color of religion no matter what the religion happen to be ...

If that is your intention, you should find a different thread for it.

... and with special note of when Christians are trying to paint another religion as evil when they are far far worst in many cases.

Which Christians are trying to do this?

Christianity in any case does not have a moral high ground when it come to inhuman behaviors toward gays in the name of god.

And? This thread isn't about Christians.

I guess I should feel bad that by pointing out the above fact I kind of ruin the effect to paint Islam as an evil force compare to Christianity or other religions.

You should feel bad that you have nothing to say about people being publicly beaten other than to compare it to the travesty that is an inability to buy a cake.

 

[BillRM]

If that is your intention, you should find a different thread for it.



Which Christians are trying to do this?



And? This thread isn't about Christians.



You should feel bad that you have nothing to say about people being publicly beaten other than to compare it to the travesty that is an inability to buy a cake.

An you have nothing to say about US Christians trying to get the death penal on the books in Africa for the crime of being gay.

Odd that you only care oh so much about gays when it is Muslims attacking them instead of Christians.

One word keep coming into my mind concerning your position and it is in big burning letters.....

hypocrite

1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

 

[JMaximus]

It's barbaric.

What do you propose be done about it?

Perhaps contact your representatives and voice your concerns. Let them know how appalling the behaviour is, ask them how they propose to voice their concerns about the disgraceful practice.

Doubtful that would do much good.

Meanwhile, your president performs a sword dance with the financiers of 9/11, the same Country whose Government doesn't recognize LGBT rights. Saudi Arabia is one of the most barbaric regimes in the world when it comes to LGBT rights. Homosexuality is illegal, and gay people can face public flogging, torture and even execution. Vigilante attacks are also common.

SA is another Islamic theocracy ****hole.

But their power in the ME and their stranglehold on the US and other Western economies (talking about oil, of course) makes standing up against them on such issues a difficult task, even for the US.

Gaining energy independence for all the West and ending rogue terrorism in the ME would go a long way to eroding their power and enable first-world democracies to push harder on human rights issues in the region.

 

[chromium]

It's sad how so many of the people who for years were telling us to hate gays are now telling us how we must hate Muslims because of the terrible way they treat gays.

They didn't so much as apologize for their previous actions, the republicans wouldn't even mention the identity of the victims of Orlando, and i wake up the next day and i'm expected to buy this

 

[chromium]

defending Islam-hysterical. its people like you that the jihadists would first oppress if they took over the USA

such a preposterous scenario that it isn't even worth the time

what is in the realm of possibility and what has happened repeatedly in this country is christian theocrats oppressing people like me. So let's stick to that, if you insist on getting personal

 

[JMaximus]

... what has happened repeatedly in this country is christian theocrats oppressing people like me. So let's stick to that, if you insist on getting personal

No. Let's stick to the topic of the thread.

 

[TurtleDude]

such a preposterous scenario that it isn't even worth the time

what is in the realm of possibility and what has happened repeatedly in this country is christian theocrats oppressing people like me. So let's stick to that, if you insist on getting personal

you've had people try to stone you-and by that I mean real stones-not someone giving you a joint or a piece of blotter?

that's what happens to practicing homosexuals in many Muslim run areas. stoning or worse. how are "theocrats" trying to oppress you? have they made you wear a pink triangle on your shirt?

 

[prometeus]

I don't know if what you say is true. I have no idea how many are extremists versus those who claim they condemn the movement while tacitly supporting the extremists. It seems to be similar to Irish in the USA and the IRA.

Excellent point. The IRA did not operate in a vacuum nor do extremist Muslims, yet I am comfortable to say that it still is a small percentage.

I don't know, I just know that we need to be extremely proactive as a country in stamping out Jihadist terrorism in this country and against our people abroad.

That is true also but it is not the solution that will solve the problem in the long run.

 

[chromium]

you've had people try to stone you-and by that I mean real stones-not someone giving you a joint or a piece of blotter?

yes

that's what happens to practicing homosexuals in many Muslim run areas. stoning or worse. how are "theocrats" trying to oppress you? have they made you wear a pink triangle on your shirt?

i already mentioned the 200 anti gay bills in various states this calendar year alone, and gay men are the most likely victims of hate crimes. In 45 states it's legal to send off gay youth to camps to be tormented, gays are 1/3 less likely to have job opportunities, etc etc

by 2050 the US will be a whopping 2% muslim. No matter how you try to trivialize the obstacles here, it will always in my lifetime be more from christianity than anything the muslims can manage

and the opposite is true at indonesia of course

 

[BillRM]

It's barbaric.

What do you propose be done about it?

Perhaps contact your representatives and voice your concerns. Let them know how appalling the behaviour is, ask them how they propose to voice their concerns about the disgraceful practice.

Meanwhile, your president performs a sword dance with the financiers of 9/11, the same Country whose Government doesn't recognize LGBT rights. Saudi Arabia is one of the most barbaric regimes in the world when it comes to LGBT rights. Homosexuality is illegal, and gay people can face public flogging, torture and even execution. Vigilante attacks are also common. Don't forget to mention that. Get pissed about that and tell them what you think. These people represent you. Remain consistent.

Just disgraceful.

Strange that when Christian American citizens are going to foreign nations and spending millions of US dollars in an attempt to have those nations killed gays under the color of law there is no concern but you are going to write letters about Muslims nations mistreating gays?

Yes you guys have a deep concern for gays or at least as tools to try to attack a world religion.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

So which part do you have difficulty putting in perspective and or context?

You were babbling and posting irrelevant drivel.

No difficulty, it is clear that your post is nothing but ignorant banter on defense of bigotry.

I made no excuse for anything, merely pointed out how bad ANY religious zealotry is, but you clearly favor one brand over the other.

Doing drugs is bad for your health. Doing fentanyl is far far worse than smoking a doobie...... your argument is they are the same.



I don't favor any organized religion. only one right now is blowing people up and stoning gays, and women in the name of thier god.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

So which part do you have difficulty putting in perspective and or context?

You were babbling and posting irrelevant drivel.

No difficulty, it is clear that your post is nothing but ignorant banter on defense of bigotry.

I made no excuse for anything, merely pointed out how bad ANY religious zealotry is, but you clearly favor one brand over the other.

In fact, tell you what. you start posting all the terrorist acts currently being carried out by christians and I will be there with you condemning them.

 

[BillRM]

In fact, tell you what. you start posting all the terrorist acts currently being carried out by christians and I will be there with you condemning them.

So it ok that US Christian leaders. with hundreds of thousands of supporters, are trying to get whole nation states to executed gays for the crime of being gay?

That there are doctors and nurses and others being shot down on US soil due to being willing to preform abortions and all in the name of Jesus?

Yes only Islam have crazies not good old Christians who are completely sane.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

So it ok that US Christian leaders. with hundreds of thousands of supporters, are trying to get whole nation states to executed gays for the crime of being gay?

Link please.

That there are doctors and nurses and others being shot down on US soil due to being willing to preform abortions and all in the name of Jesus?

No those are indivduals who when they do things like this, are usually punished, prosecuted and jailed, maintained in jail often by others who happen to have the same religion. vs the state sponsoring, supporting, executing of say the gays under government approval.

Yes only Islam have crazies not good old Christians who are completely sane.

Strawman. man using god to commit horrible acts is indeed a reality for all religions. doing it under support of the state, or when your religion organizes a state is the reality of only one religion. Islam.

 

[BillRM]

In fact, tell you what. you start posting all the terrorist acts currently being carried out by christians and I will be there with you condemning them.

That nice that you will condemn acts such as killing abortion doctors and nurses and dragging gay men behind pickup trucks and so on by god fearing Christians.

Or the harsh punishments for being gay in some African nations with American Christians spending millions to lobby for death sentences in such nations as long prison sentences for being gay is not good enough.

 

[BillRM]

Link please.



No those are indivduals who when they do things like this, are usually punished, prosecuted and jailed, maintained in jail often by others who happen to have the same religion. vs the state sponsoring, supporting, executing of say the gays under government approval.





Strawman. man using god to commit horrible acts is indeed a reality for all religions. doing it under support of the state, or when your religion organizes a state is the reality of only one religion. Islam.

Plenty of history of anti gay laws in the West that only strong fight back had begin to change in the last few decades. People serve long long prison sentences in the US for having gay sex before the SC interfere.

My favor example of a gay man who work in breaking the German codes that save untold lives during WW2 was driven to suicide by the actions of the British government for the crime of being gay.

Not everyday that good old christians get to drive a super genius to his death that the western nations happen to owe that degree of debt to.

To say nothing of what we as the human race lost by cutting Alan Turing life so short.

No Christians nor the Christian religion is no better the Islam in the manner they wish to treat gays.

As I already stated on this thread US Christians leaders who can no longer get anti gay laws pass in the US are attempting to do so in Africa.

You for some reason ask for a link even those I had given such links over and over on this thread but what the hell.

How anti-gay Christians evangelize hate abroad - LA Times




In March 2009, while in Kampala, Uganda, researching reports of U.S. right-wing evangelical involvement in attacks on LGBTQ equality and reproductive justice, I was invited to a three-day conference on homosexuality hosted by the Family Life Network, which is based in New York. The keynote speaker was Scott Lively from Springfield, Mass., who introduced himself as a leading expert on the "international homosexual agenda." I filmed Lively over the course of two days as he instructed religious and political leaders about how gays were coming to Uganda from the West to "recruit children into homosexuality."

Some of his assertions would have been laughable had he not been so deadly serious. He claimed that a gay clique that included Adolf Hitler was behind the Holocaust, and he insinuated that gay people fueled the Rwandan genocide.

In the United States, Lively is widely dismissed as an anti-gay firebrand and Holocaust revisionist. But in Uganda, he was presented — and accepted — as a leading international authority. The public persecution of LGBTQ people escalated after Lively's conference, with one local newspaper publishing the pictures and addresses of activists under the headline, "Hang Them."

Lively was also invited to private briefings with political and religious leaders, and to address the Ugandan parliament during his 2009 visit. The next month, Ugandan lawmaker David Bahati unveiled his Anti-Homosexuality Bill, which in its original form called for the death penalty as punishment for a new crime of "aggravated homosexuality."

In recent years, millions of dollars have been funneled from anti-LGBTQ evangelical conservatives to Uganda, funding local pastors and training them to adopt and mirror the culture-war language of the U.S. Christian right. Bahati and a notorious anti-gay pastor, Martin Ssempa, were personally mentored by U.S. conservatives. And powerful Christian right organizations such as the Family Research Council lobbied Congress to change a resolution denouncing the Uganda legislation.

Other prominent right-wing evangelicals have also made Uganda appearances, including California's Rick Warren and Lou Engle, who founded TheCall ministry. They met with politicians, hosted rallies and public meetings, and used their influence and credibility to contribute to a culture war in Uganda much more intense and explosive than anything seen in the United States; Lively himself described the work as a "nuclear bomb" in Uganda. These conservative evangelicals later distanced themselves from the law, saying they didn't think homosexuality should be criminalized, but it was too late.

In December, the Ugandan parliament finally passed the Anti-Homosexuality Bill, and last month President Yoweri Museveni signed it into law. The death penalty provision was removed, but the law includes life sentences for homosexual "repeat offenders" and criminalizes advocacy on behalf of LGBTQ Ugandans.

Uganda has deservedly received widespread attention, but it's not the only country with a culture war that carries the fingerprints of U.S. campaigners. Nigeria has passed a bill almost identical to Uganda's, and Cameroon and Zambia are enthusiastically imprisoning LGBTQ people.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

That nice that you will condemn acts such as killing abortion doctors and nurses and dragging gay men behind pickup trucks and so on by god fearing Christians.

Or the harsh punishments for being gay in some African nations with American Christians spending millions to lobby for death sentences in such nations as long prison sentences for being gay is not good enough.

So, you really believe that's the exact same thing. Tell me one Islamic country, that the more islamic people gained power in that country's government people especially women and gays gained more freedom.


When islamic peoples are the minority, they demand "equal rights", when they are the majority, the oppress peoples rights. Show me one instance where this is untrue. I'll wait.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Plenty of history of anti gay laws in the West that only strong fight back had begin to change in the last few decades. People serve long long prison sentences in the US for having gay sex before the SC interfere.

I believe the SC were all christians, no? (not that it matters other than pointing out the glaring flaw in your cognitive dissonance laced "logic".

My favor example of a gay man who work in breaking the German codes that save untold lives during WW2 was driven to suicide by the actions of the British government for the crime of being gay.

1940's.... one man.....? I'm not sure of your point in today's world.

Not everyday that good old christians get to drive a super genius to his death that the western nations happen to owe that degree of debt to.

To say nothing of what we as the human race lost by cutting Alan Turing life so short.

And you can link to me and show me that he was driven to death by a theocratic oppresssion and religious views of others?

No Christians nor the Christian religion is no better the Islam in the manner they wish to treat gays.

Reality disagrees with you.

As I already stated on this thread US Christians leaders who can no longer get anti gay laws pass in the US are attempting to do so in Africa.

Good luck to the dozen or so assholes.

You for some reason ask for a link even those I had given such links over and over on this thread but what the hell.

So you have one organization who persuaded a banana republic to enact anti gay laws, where they STRIPPED the death penalty and you are saying that this proves that all christians are the same as islamic peoples when they set up a countries, literally stone gays to death or throw them off of buildings. to you this is the same?


How is that cognitive dissonance working out for you? :lol: