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Indirect Effects of the Sun on Earth's Climate[W:376]

Desert Storm said:
No they havent gotten warmer deuce, I should know because I live here (on and off).
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More denial. I showed you the charts. The data doesn't lie. You can't possibly believe yourself capable of mathematically analyzing thirty years of temperature data down to the tenth of a degree off the top of your head.
 
Deuce said:
More denial. I showed you the charts
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Your charts are pile of massive bullsh_t!!

Your charts remind me of the polls prior to Trump's election who all showed Hillary would win, and who were all supposedly statistically correct without fail
 
Desert Storm said:
Your charts are pile of massive bullsh_t!!

Your charts remind me of the polls prior to Trump's election who all showed Hillary would win, and who were all supposedly statistically correct without fail
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Show me an accurate representation of CO2 levels over the last century, then.

While your at it, show me the math you did on temperatures in your area.
 
Deuce said:
Show me an accurate representation of CO2 levels over the last century, then.

While your at it, show me the math you did on temperatures in your area.
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I dont care aboot your stupid graphs or your retarded math.

I'll show you common sense, and that tells me winters havent warmed up at all over the last 20 years or so, I wish they had dammit!!

Ask anyone living in Minnesota if global warming is real and you'll get the same answer: Home
 
Desert Storm said:
I dont care aboot your stupid graphs or your retarded math.

I'll show you common sense, and that tells me winters havent warmed up at all over the last 20 years or so, I wish they had dammit!!

Ask anyone living in Minnesota if global warming is real and you'll get the same answer: Home
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Hey Jack, his common sense tells him what the temperature has or has not done. Any comment?
 
Deuce said:
Hey Jack, his common sense tells him what the temperature has or has not done. Any comment?
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Not a question I can answer until I know what graphs you two are discussing. So I'll ask for the third time. Which?
 
Jack Hays said:
Not a question I can answer until I know what graphs you two are discussing. So I'll ask for the third time. Which?
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I posted a chart of temperatures in Toronto. He said Toronto winters hadn't gotten warmer. I posted a temperature chart showing they had.

He also objected to measurements of atmospheric CO2 over the last century. Says his common sense declares that CO2 has changed more dramatically than it actually has.

But not actually relevant in this post. He declared common sense told him temperatures hadn't changed, and therefore he could ignore data presented. Surely a scientifically-minded person like yourself finds such a thing to be silly.
 
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Jack Hays said:
I wish one of you would cite a post number.
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It's not that big a thread. Just read the damn thing if you're really so interested.
 
Deuce said:
I posted a chart of temperatures in Toronto. He said Toronto winters hadn't gotten warmer. I posted a temperature chart showing they had.

He also objected to measurements of atmospheric CO2 over the last century. Says his common sense declares that CO2 has changed more dramatically than it actually has.

But not actually relevant in this post. He declared common sense told him temperatures hadn't changed, and therefore he could ignore data presented. Surely a scientifically-minded person like yourself finds such a thing to be silly.
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The temperatures by any city, with all else equal, will increase over the last 150 years in conjunction with vegetation being replaced by reads, buildings, etc. simply from the loss of evapotranspiration. The real test is looking at remote stations far enough away from any development. I once calculated this loss of evapotranspiration to be in excess of 7 W/m^2 of warming for Portland, where I live.
 
Deuce said:
I posted a chart of temperatures in Toronto. He said Toronto winters hadn't gotten warmer. I posted a temperature chart showing they had
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If our winters have gotten warmer its SO MINUTE its not even worth worrying aboot.

Tell you what deuce, there's one thing me and you can agree upon, and thats we NEED to get off oil and find another (clean?) energy source!

Maybe ethanol is the answer??
In Brazil they are running their cars on flex fuel (mix of oil and ethanol).

Who knows, but where you Lefties piss me off is when you start this fear-mongering bullsh_t, how we're all gonna bake, fry and die. Earth will be fine, it just needs a little tune-up
 
Deuce said:
I posted a chart of temperatures in Toronto. He said Toronto winters hadn't gotten warmer. I posted a temperature chart showing they had.

He also objected to measurements of atmospheric CO2 over the last century. Says his common sense declares that CO2 has changed more dramatically than it actually has.

But not actually relevant in this post. He declared common sense told him temperatures hadn't changed, and therefore he could ignore data presented. Surely a scientifically-minded person like yourself finds such a thing to be silly.
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Deuce said:
It's not that big a thread. Just read the damn thing if you're really so interested.
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Sorry, but I'm not going to step into such a contentious exchange until everyone agrees on what we're talking about. It was you, after all, who asked my opinion. It does not seem unreasonable for me to ask you in return to specify my opinion about what.
 
Desert Storm said:
If our winters have gotten warmer its SO MINUTE its not even worth worrying aboot.

Tell you what deuce, there's one thing me and you can agree upon, and thats we NEED to get off oil and find another (clean?) energy source!

Maybe ethanol is the answer??
In Brazil they are running their cars on flex fuel (mix of oil and ethanol).

Who knows, but where you Lefties piss me off is when you start this fear-mongering bullsh_t, how we're all gonna bake, fry and die. Earth will be fine, it just needs a little tune-up
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At no point have I suggested we're all going to die.

Ethanol is not the answer, it takes more energy to produce than you get from burning it. It's a result of the stupidly large corn subsidies in this country.
 
Jack Hays said:
Sorry, but I'm not going to step into such a contentious exchange until everyone agrees on what we're talking about. It was you, after all, who asked my opinion. It does not seem unreasonable for me to ask you in return to specify my opinion about what.
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The thread demonstrates what is being talked about. I've proven my point: you're unwilling to contradict people on your team.
 
Here's a reference for Jack Hays.

Desert Storm said:
No, and that was exactly my point 2 posts ago. How do you know how much warming can be attributed to just fossil fuels, and how much warming is because of earth's natural warming/cooling cycles?? We just dont know. If fossil fuels only add 10% to a 100% natural warming cycle then AGW has been greatly exaggerated and earth probably has at least another 200 to 300 years before we really need to seriously think aboot getting off fossil fuels and find a clean energy instead. Of course it would be great if we can find a clean(er) fuel before that, and I'm all for that


Great, I'm glad we agree.

One more thing, back in the 1990's China and India entered their own little industrial age. They tripled or quadrupled their CO2 output from the 1990's up till now. So during that 27 year period earth should have seen a drastic increase in global warming if the entire AGW hypothesis is correct. Newsflash: earth did NOT warm up drastically, only a tiny littlebit.

Explain that please
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Deuce said:
You are incorrect in your assumption that the distinction cannot be calculated. As I said a couple posts back, these are all measurable and testable factors. We can measure what the sun is doing. Agree?




You're trying to do math with your gut, without any data to do the math with in the first place. And that's always a bad idea.

View attachment 67224843

As you can see, CO2 levels have risen more or less steadily. No drastic jump. (the little wiggles are the yearly plant growth cycle, every spring nature nabs a bunch of CO2)

Furthermore, I'd point out some more things:
1) As you've agreed, there are other factors. Example: over the last decade or so the sun has dropped in output. I'm sure you'll agree that less solar output provides a cooling influence that balances against any warming influence of CO2
2) The earth has a lot of thermal inertia, largely thanks to having massive amounts of water on its surface. There's a lag time to reach a new thermal equilibrium.
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Desert Storm said:
No, they are not. You CANNOT take a 150 year sample size, and then measure it against earth's 4 billion year history.
Any good statistician who's worth his salt will tell you that


Your graph is wrong. It has to be.

How can CO2 levels remained at an almost constant rise if China and India entered their industrial age around 1990 and tripled their CO2 out put. Also earth's population has risen from 6 billion in 1999 to 7.6 billion in October 2017. This means 1.7 more billion people, surely that had to increase CO2 levels by a lot more then what your graph shows.

Again, your graph is wrong


There's also something called "atmospheric escape". You might wanna read up on that someday
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Deuce said:
No, that's just your perception. You're misled by your partisan bias. On numerous occasions I have pointed out that CO2 has often acted as a feedback for solar insolation changes. Do you deny this?
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I'm pretty sure I would remember if you did, and I don't remember you ever saying or implying such a thing.

Please elaborate how you mean CO2 feedback from solar insolation.
 
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