Indianapolis church 'detains' Jesus, Mary and Joseph in protest of child separation policy

[minnie616]

Indianapolis church 'detains' Jesus, Mary and Joseph in protest of child separation policy
“A number of our congregants at the cathedral are first or second-generation immigrants and this situation is not abstract to them,” the Rev. Lee Curtis said.

“The statement with the Holy Family says as much about our policy as any statement would say,” the Rev. Canon Lee Curtis of Christ Church Cathedral, who came up with the idea, told NBC News. “We want an end for family detention. Families, all families, every family, is holy, and we hope and pray that families who are seeking out a better life for their kids are afforded that opportunity.”

The dean and rector of Christ Church, the Rev. Stephen Carlsen, said the display is a direct response to Trump’s zero-tolerance policy, separating migrant children from their parents.

"I know what the Bible said," Carlsen told the Indy Star. "We're supposed to love our neighbors as ourselves."

The reverends are not the first religious members to denounce the policy. During nationwide protests last month, the Rev. Ron Verblaauw, pastor of Rutherford Congregational Church in New Jersey, told NBC New York: "Separating children from families is the first sign we are not the land of the free and the home of the brave anymore. We are the scared."

Read more:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna888596

This church is “detaining” it's statues of baby Jesus, Mary and Joseph in a chained-linked enclosed cage on their front lawn.

President Trump did sign an executive order in June to no longer separate the children from their parents during his zero tolerance policy but he did state he was going to continue his policy to detain the families at least until their hearings/trials

That will cost the taxpayers about $400 per person per night enough not more.

Many including myself feel that those immigrates who are prescreened and are not a danger to the community could be given a gbs ankle monitor at a cost of $5 to $15 a day until their hearings/trials. That would allow the families the chance to stay with friend or relatives, or people from organizations who want to Spencer/help a family , and would save the taxpayers a lot of money, in return.

 

[PirateMk1]

Indianapolis church 'detains' Jesus, Mary and Joseph in protest of child separation policy
“A number of our congregants at the cathedral are first or second-generation immigrants and this situation is not abstract to them,” the Rev. Lee Curtis said.



Read more:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna888596

This church is “detaining” it's statues of baby Jesus, Mary and Joseph in a chained-linked enclosed cage on their front lawn.

President Trump did sign an executive order in June to no longer separate the children from their parents during his zero tolerance policy but he did state he was going to continue his policy to detain the families at least until their hearings/trials

That will cost the taxpayers about $400 per person per night enough not more.

Many including myself feel that those immigrates who are prescreened and are not a danger to the community could be given a gbs ankle monitor at a cost of $5 to $15 a day until their hearings/trials. That would allow the families the chance to stay with friend or relatives, or people from organizations who want to Spencer/help a family , and would save the taxpayers a lot of money, in return.

Only 3% respond to the summons if they let go from detention. That's the reason they are being detained, besides being here unlawfully.

 

[calamity]

Indianapolis church 'detains' Jesus, Mary and Joseph in protest of child separation policy
“A number of our congregants at the cathedral are first or second-generation immigrants and this situation is not abstract to them,” the Rev. Lee Curtis said.



Read more:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna888596

This church is “detaining” it's statues of baby Jesus, Mary and Joseph in a chained-linked enclosed cage on their front lawn.

President Trump did sign an executive order in June to no longer separate the children from their parents during his zero tolerance policy but he did state he was going to continue his policy to detain the families at least until their hearings/trials

That will cost the taxpayers about $400 per person per night enough not more.

Many including myself feel that those immigrates who are prescreened and are not a danger to the community could be given a gbs ankle monitor at a cost of $5 to $15 a day until their hearings/trials. That would allow the families the chance to stay with friend or relatives, or people from organizations who want to Spencer/help a family , and would save the taxpayers a lot of money, in return.

Perfect idea for this year's nativity scenes on America's front lawns

 

[calamity]

Only 3% respond to the summons if they let go from detention. That's the reason they are being detained, besides being here unlawfully.

Lol.. you have that backwards.

"According to ICE, overall program compliance for all five regions is an average of 99 percent for ICE check-ins and appointments, as well as 100 percent attendance at court hearings," the report said. "Since the inception of FCMP, 23 out of 954 participants (2 percent) were reported as absconders."

Majority of undocumented immigrants show up for court, data shows | PunditFact

But you won't care. You'll keep spreading misinformation.

 

[Crovax]

Indianapolis church 'detains' Jesus, Mary and Joseph in protest of child separation policy
“A number of our congregants at the cathedral are first or second-generation immigrants and this situation is not abstract to them,” the Rev. Lee Curtis said.



Read more:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna888596

This church is “detaining” it's statues of baby Jesus, Mary and Joseph in a chained-linked enclosed cage on their front lawn.

President Trump did sign an executive order in June to no longer separate the children from their parents during his zero tolerance policy but he did state he was going to continue his policy to detain the families at least until their hearings/trials

That will cost the taxpayers about $400 per person per night enough not more.

Many including myself feel that those immigrates who are prescreened and are not a danger to the community could be given a gbs ankle monitor at a cost of $5 to $15 a day until their hearings/trials. That would allow the families the chance to stay with friend or relatives, or people from organizations who want to Spencer/help a family , and would save the taxpayers a lot of money, in return.

I assume thats a joke, right?

 

[code1211]

Indianapolis church 'detains' Jesus, Mary and Joseph in protest of child separation policy
“A number of our congregants at the cathedral are first or second-generation immigrants and this situation is not abstract to them,” the Rev. Lee Curtis said.



Read more:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna888596

This church is “detaining” it's statues of baby Jesus, Mary and Joseph in a chained-linked enclosed cage on their front lawn.

President Trump did sign an executive order in June to no longer separate the children from their parents during his zero tolerance policy but he did state he was going to continue his policy to detain the families at least until their hearings/trials

That will cost the taxpayers about $400 per person per night enough not more.

Many including myself feel that those immigrates who are prescreened and are not a danger to the community could be given a gbs ankle monitor at a cost of $5 to $15 a day until their hearings/trials. That would allow the families the chance to stay with friend or relatives, or people from organizations who want to Spencer/help a family , and would save the taxpayers a lot of money, in return.

I live in Indianapolis.

This church is located on the Circle which is the Cultural center of the "Circle City" here.

I can speak from experience noting that the doors are locked when not opened by the folks who run the place.

Apparently they DO understand the concept of authorized and unauthorized entry and laws governing same.

Makes me wonder why they can't extend this understanding the border.

 

[minnie616]

Only 3% respond to the summons if they let go from detention. That's the reason they are being detained, besides being here unlawfully.

Actually, with the ankle monitor program about 97 to 99 percent show up for their hearings.

From :

It’s not true that the only way the government can keep track of asylum seekers is by imprisoning them. As Dara Lind has noted in Vox, the Obama administration (while, to its discredit, it detained some immigrant families) also experimented with two highly successful alternatives. The first was called “Community Supervision.” Asylum seekers were released to the care of government-funded social workers, who helped them find attorneys and places to live, and worked to ensure they showed up to court. The other was called “Intensive Supervision Alternative Program.” Asylum seekers were released with ankle bracelets linked to an app on immigration officials’ phones. The officials also regularly called and visited them. Under both programs, according to the people who ran them, asylum seekers showed up for their proceedings at rates of between 97 and 99 percent. The programs were also vastly cheaper than detention.

Read more:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/democrats-immigration-not-a-crisis/563855/

 

[minnie616]

I assume thats a joke, right?

No , it is not a joke.

gps ankle monitor costs about $6,000 a year. ( $500 a month) vs about $12,000 (@400 a night per person ) for family detention.

https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2015/04/5-things-to-know-about-ankle-monitors.html


The cost of detention facilities for families is a bit less than $300 in 2014 per night per person.

And keeping children with their parents in detention centers like the one run by U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement in Dilley, Texas cost $298 per resident per night, according to an agency estimate when it awarded the contract for the facility in 2014.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/im...t-kids-n884871

 

[minnie616]

I assume thats a joke, right?

Here is a snip from a 2014 National Review Article:

Arizona Republican Senator John McCain recently said he would like to see ankle monitors on all illegal immigrants awaiting deportation hearings. Monitoring with the ankle bracelets has also been suggested as one possible solution to the border crisis, where fewer than 900 of the 55,000 children have been reunited with their families in their home countries. Again, this may be the most cost effective and practical option. Enrolling an immigrant in the ankle monitoring program costs about $4.50 a day, while the Department of Health and Human Services has said that it spends between $250 and $1,000 a day placing abandoned children with family members.
Sounds like a solid plan—for now.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2014...elp-solve-immigration-crisis-christine-sisto/

 

[cuban smokes]

Indianapolis church 'detains' Jesus, Mary and Joseph in protest of child separation policy
“A number of our congregants at the cathedral are first or second-generation immigrants and this situation is not abstract to them,” the Rev. Lee Curtis said.



Read more:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna888596

This church is “detaining” it's statues of baby Jesus, Mary and Joseph in a chained-linked enclosed cage on their front lawn.

President Trump did sign an executive order in June to no longer separate the children from their parents during his zero tolerance policy but he did state he was going to continue his policy to detain the families at least until their hearings/trials

That will cost the taxpayers about $400 per person per night enough not more.

Many including myself feel that those immigrates who are prescreened and are not a danger to the community could be given a gbs ankle monitor at a cost of $5 to $15 a day until their hearings/trials. That would allow the families the chance to stay with friend or relatives, or people from organizations who want to Spencer/help a family , and would save the taxpayers a lot of money, in return.

they will now have to change the scripture to, "let my Jesus go"

 

[Mr Person]

Only 3% respond to the summons if they let go from detention.

The Trump admin ended the Family Case Management Program in April 2017, which tied families with an adviser and legal orientation. They had an appearance rate of 99.6% at immigration court.

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/06/ice-shuts-down-program-for-asylum-seekers/529887/

https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrant...and-detention/fact-checking-family-separation

I have no doubt that if a link is provided to back up the 3% number, it will turn out that the most magical cherry-picking was used to produce it.


Interestingly, this successful program dubbed "catch and release" for purposes of confusing people not only had a great rate of success, and in fact was a respond to a court order telling the Obama administration to release detained families in light of the 1997 Flores agreement.






It's also interesting that an illegal entry charge usually only results in some days in jail if/when it was prosecuted. These detentions exceed the typical sentence.

See also https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/6210...y-separation-and-zero-tolerance-at-the-border

 

[Thoreau72]

I live in Indianapolis.

This church is located on the Circle which is the Cultural center of the "Circle City" here.

I can speak from experience noting that the doors are locked when not opened by the folks who run the place.

Apparently they DO understand the concept of authorized and unauthorized entry and laws governing same.

Makes me wonder why they can't extend this understanding the border.

Because they can empathize with the victims, the separated families? Because they know right from wrong?

 

[MSgt]

Perfect idea for this year's nativity scenes on America's front lawns

To be reported by FOX News as a "leftist" movement to not only besmirch the majestic name of Donald Trump, but to hijack Christianity for its continued war on Christmas. Christian FOX News viewers everywhere (like my old parents) will agree as they turn Mary and Joseph into venture capitalists in the donkey and manger business, while presenting Jesus as a clever businessman who traded his existence for Frankincense and Myrrh.

 

[MSgt]

I live in Indianapolis.

This church is located on the Circle which is the Cultural center of the "Circle City" here.

I can speak from experience noting that the doors are locked when not opened by the folks who run the place.

Apparently they DO understand the concept of authorized and unauthorized entry and laws governing same.

Makes me wonder why they can't extend this understanding the border.

Perhaps they care more to hold to an understanding of their religion. Not all Christians have displaced Christianity with Trumpocracy. Their protest is clearly about the integrity of the family, not a protest of immigration law. Your solution to the over-hyped issue of illegal immigration is to embrace the extreme.

 

[minnie616]

From the Washington Post article:

Christ Church Cathedral, one of the oldest churches in Indianapolis, is protesting the detention of families under the Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” policy of prosecuting as many people as possible for crossing into the United States illegally. Justice Department lawyers said in a filing last week that families could be detained for longer than the 20-day limit required by a previous court settlement.

The Rev. Stephen Carlsen, the church’s dean and rector, said the news prompted the church to create a display showing a “detained” holy family. Joseph and Mary were not any different from migrant families fleeing violence from their home countries, he said.

The couple fled to Egypt after Herod ordered the execution of baby boys in Bethlehem, according to the Bible.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-immigration-policies/?utm_term=.0ce65c69ea6e

 

[code1211]

Because they can empathize with the victims, the separated families? Because they know right from wrong?

Are you saying that anyone and everyone, anywhere and for any reason is legally required by our laws to be taken in to our country?

 

[minnie616]

Are you saying that anyone and everyone, anywhere and for any reason is legally required by our laws to be taken in to our country?

Who is saying that?

Of course the US cannot take in everyone. Separating parents from their children was not only mean (IMHO), it also is damaging to children’s brains.
Children should not be forceably separated from their parents except in extenuating circumstances.

Holding families in detention when there are viable alternative solutions ( I might add much cheaper solutions for the taxpayers ) are available is also unnecessary and pretty vengeful ( IMHO) .

 

[code1211]

Perhaps they care more to hold to an understanding of their religion. Not all Christians have displaced Christianity with Trumpocracy. Their protest is clearly about the integrity of the family, not a protest of immigration law. Your solution to the over-hyped issue of illegal immigration is to embrace the extreme.

Your simplistic view of this is aggravating. this is far from being a binary consideration.

What do you suppose this issue is really about?

What laws are you citing to support your views?

The logical extension to your argument is that the US is legally compelled to accept into the country anyone who decides they want to enter.

This is not supported by our law and not a wise course forward.

Are there other developed countries in the world right now that have laws on immigration that match your prescription on this topic for the US?

 

[minnie616]

Your simplistic view of this is aggravating. this is far from being a binary consideration.

What do you suppose this issue is really about?

What laws are you citing to support your views?

The logical extension to your argument is that the US is legally compelled to accept into the country anyone who decides they want to enter.

This is not supported by our law and not a wise course forward.

Are there other developed countries in the world right now that have laws on immigration that match your prescription on this topic for the US?

Did you even read the post you quoted?

He said, “ Their protest is clearly about the integrity of the family, not a protest of immigration law.”

The Church was protesting detaining families in locked detention centers/facilities.

 

[holbritter]

Indianapolis church 'detains' Jesus, Mary and Joseph in protest of child separation policy
“A number of our congregants at the cathedral are first or second-generation immigrants and this situation is not abstract to them,” the Rev. Lee Curtis said.



Read more:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna888596

This church is “detaining” it's statues of baby Jesus, Mary and Joseph in a chained-linked enclosed cage on their front lawn.

President Trump did sign an executive order in June to no longer separate the children from their parents during his zero tolerance policy but he did state he was going to continue his policy to detain the families at least until their hearings/trials

That will cost the taxpayers about $400 per person per night enough not more.

Many including myself feel that those immigrates who are prescreened and are not a danger to the community could be given a gbs ankle monitor at a cost of $5 to $15 a day until their hearings/trials. That would allow the families the chance to stay with friend or relatives, or people from organizations who want to Spencer/help a family , and would save the taxpayers a lot of money, in return.

Someone needs to catch them up, and inform them that it was stopped a few weeks ago.

 

[code1211]

Who is saying that?

Of course the US cannot take in everyone. Separating parents from their children was not only mean (IMHO), it also is damaging to children’s brains.
Children should not be forceably separated from their parents except in extenuating circumstances.

Holding families in detention when there are viable alternative solutions ( I might add much cheaper solutions for the taxpayers ) are available is also unnecessary and pretty vengeful ( IMHO) .

Extenuating Circumstances like what? Entering a sovereign nation illegally?

What circumstances on this topic are and are not "extenuating"?

These folks are not being treated like an invading army. They are being treated like people of unknown motivation. What course of action are you recommending to determine their motivation?

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/extenuating+circumstances
<snip>
extenuating circumstances
n. surrounding factors (sometimes called mitigation) which make a crime appear less serious, less aggravated, or without criminal intent, and thus warranting a more lenient punishment or lesser charge (manslaughter rather than murder, for example). (See: mitigating circumstances)
<snip>

 

[minnie616]

Someone needs to catch them up, and inform them that it was stopped a few weeks ago.

The family separation stopped a few weeks ago , but not the family detentions which according to President Trump
they may be in for months while awaiting their trials.

The NBC article posted said family separation but the church is actually protesting the detention of families in a locked detention center / facility.

The Washing Post Article I linked a few posts ago explains that better.

The Rev. Stephen Carlsen, the church’s dean and rector, said the news prompted the church to create a display showing a “detained” holy family. Joseph and Mary were not any different from migrant families fleeing violence from their home countries, he said.

The couple fled to Egypt after Herod ordered the execution of baby boys in Bethlehem, according to the Bible.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-immigration-policies/?utm_term=.0ce65c69ea6e

 

[code1211]

Did you even read the post you quoted?

He said, “ Their protest is clearly about the integrity of the family, not a protest of immigration law.”

The Church was protesting detaining families in locked detention centers/facilities.

The problem, then, is to recommend a course forward that is legal, fair and wise.

The inflammatory limitation to look at this from only one view point is simplistic and child like. This is not just about the integrity of particular families or of the idea of the sanctity of the family.

On a strictly local basis, this has to do with the injustices the refugees are fleeing, the fundamental charity of our society and the need to enact and enforce laws to protect our people.

The same people that feigned outrage when Trump called the countries of origin crap holes are reluctant to send these refugees back to the countries of origin because they believe that these countries are crap holes.

The hypocrisy in the outrage over all of this obvious and useless.

The thing that is driving the folks out of the crap holes they have left is the violence and the injustice present there. Are you recommending that the US simply clean up the blood? Do you think we need to stop the bleeding?

To what extent does your compassion reach?

 

[Bum]

Indianapolis church 'detains' Jesus, Mary and Joseph in protest of child separation policy

No worries....they will be released no later than Thanksgiving Holiday with an H2B Seasonal Work Visa.

 

[minnie616]

Extenuating Circumstances like what? Entering a sovereign nation illegally?

What circumstances on this topic are and are not "extenuating"?

These folks are not being treated like an invading army. They are being treated like people of unknown motivation. What course of action are you recommending to determine their motivation?

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/extenuating+circumstances
<snip>
extenuating circumstances
n. surrounding factors (sometimes called mitigation) which make a crime appear less serious, less aggravated, or without criminal intent, and thus warranting a more lenient punishment or lesser charge (manslaughter rather than murder, for example). (See: mitigating circumstances)
<snip>

We are talking about taking a child forcibly from their parents and causing life long brain damage.
To me and to the medical community taking children from parents as zero tolerance policy simply because they crossed the US border ( some legally, some illegally )is child abuse by the US government.

From:

The Washington Post

This is what happens inside children when they are forcibly separated from their parents.

Their heart rate goes up. Their body releases a flood of stress hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline. Those stress hormones can start killing off dendrites — the little branches in brain cells that transmit messages. In time, the stress can start killing off neurons and — especially in young children — wreaking dramatic and long-term damage, both psychologically and to the physical structure of the brain.

“The effect is catastrophic,” said Charles Nelson, a pediatrics professor at Harvard Medical School. “There’s so much research on this that if people paid attention at all to the science, they would never do this.”

That research on child-parent separation is driving pediatricians, psychologists and other health experts to vehemently oppose the Trump administration’s new border crossing policy, which has separated more than 2,000 immigrant children from their parents in recent weeks.