Implications of Medicare for All

[Condor060]

Medicare does have a appeals process, I'm told it often works in favor of the individual. If you were to change providers you would loose any credit you had accumulated toward your deductible.

You are much more comfortable negotiating with a monopoly than I would ever be. I believe competition creates diversity in plans and attitudes to the market to recruit and keep clients. I have to reflect on the history of the VA and the problems we have had to address and we are talking about less than 1% of the country.

I have veterans that I served with that are dead because of lack of service through the VA. My own brother was testing ejection seats for the US Navy and was ejected 11 times on an ejection sled and at 55 years old, still fighting for his medical rights and classification. He has spinal compression and brain damage among a host of major deficiencies that have all been diagnosed as the result of his service but still fighting for his benefits.

So you might conclude I am not as positive as you may be on another government controlled medical program for 350 million people. If it worked like you think it would, yeah, that would be something I would get behind but in my experience it doesn't have the ability for the successes that are claimed.

 

[RealityNow]

what people have to understand is the American Culture of "Enriching Doctors" is not something that is shared around the world. People should look at India, as many people travel to India for medical services.
If American Doctors get so haughty they want to quit because they can't 'enjoy the get rich quick" and having the patients kiss their butts.... It's not a problem, because there are many many many many Doctors that can and will come from India; {It is noteworthy that India provides the largest number of International Medical Graduates to the USA}

Indians dominate the medical profession in the US, and they will continue to excel in the future because those who are joining this profession are even more passionate about it. Patients treated by Indian doctors in US have lower death rate: Harvard Study. The dominance of Indian-Americans in the medical profession can be gauged by the fact that AAPI, American Association of Physicians of Indian Origin is as big as – or even bigger than – the American Medical Association.

In the US, Indians and Indian-Americans make up the largest non-Caucasian segment of the American medical community, where they account for one in every 20 practicing doctors. In recent years, they have become a more vocal and visible presence, undertaking charitable activities and political lobbying. Today Indian doctors have become a powerful influence in medicine across the world - from North America and Great Britain to East Africa, Malaysia, and Singapore.

America spent too much time focused on "status grooming their youth"... to pursue Medicine and Law, as the "get rich path- play status games" and both professions have engaged acts of 'degradation of the ethic's of these professions, for the sake of "money". "We all know it" but at time flip flop and acquiesce ourselves to try and void out the truths that we know and many have had family members suffer because of such "status and greed grooming that has gone into making a "Avarice Agenda" (Extreme Greed) too important to themselves..

These Doctor's now get into their groups, and play games to fight against certain treatment programs, that don't fit their money stream main programming. They try and control the system to void out Holostic Methods for the things they are better suited for.

Most people go to the doctor, the doctors book their appointment books with 10-15 minutes slots, and then overbook that!!! They come in, look at you, ask a couple of question, get their digital unit and look at prescription options, stick their stethoscope on your back, on your chest and then grab your wrist and pretend to take your blood pressure, when the Nurse has already done that.
First they make you sit in the room for at least 10 minutes before they come in, to ensure you are desperate to see them to the point, by the time they come in they've elevated themselves in a situational framework, where the patient is fully submissive to the point of near worship like silence. Then... they get agitated if one tells them the related symptoms they are having!!! They check boxes on a checklist... then find a generic phrase as a quick escape comment to get from the room as quick as possible; and tell you to pick up the prescription at the desk and they will see in a matter of weeks.

Yet, they follow this generic script, but when you ask a question, they tell you"everyone is different"... but their treatment process is as if everyone is generic.

 

[Obscurity]

Just one question. If Obama's plan that has skyrocketed in price can't be controlled, how are you going to control the price of this plan? How do you even know of the implementation cost. Who is going to control the pharmaceutical cost problems.

We stop it by disallowing republicans from blocking Medicare from bartering for better prices, and stopping them from not allowing price fixes on drugs.

Big pharma and big health industries have had their day. They failed.

 

[manofknowledge]

Yes. Why didn't the gov't cover those with pre-existing conditions? Why force this crappy socialized health care insurance on everyone?

EDIT; You know, my mom is on Medicare. Medicare doesn't pay for dental. Doesn't pay for glasses. Pays for about 80% of hospital expenses. For that to be covered, a patient has to pay for, extra, a supplemental health care insurance. Then there's another form of socialized health care insurance in the US called VA health care insurance which is great, too. :lamo

You're a bit mixed up. Medicare covers pre-existing conditions. Employer group insurance has always covered pre-existing conditions because the price of that insurance is based on the cost to cover the whole group. (healthy employees subsidize not healthy employees.)

On the individual market insurers did not cover pre-existing conditions or excluded them from coverage because they priced the policy based on the cost of covering the individual. Pre-existing conditions increased the cost of coverage based on the cost of the condition. Hence not healthy people could not afford to get coverage, were dropped from coverage or were rejected by the insurer.

The ACA changed that because ACA individual market policies are priced base on the cost of coverage in a geographical region. It's only affodable if healthy people buy insurance in that region to subsidize covering the cost of not healthy people. Otherwise the price of a policy goes up based on a group dominated by not healthy people. That is the reason for the minimum coverage requirement. Now that that is history the price on the exchanges will likely be pushed up by adverse selection unless something is done about it.

 

[Condor060]

We stop it by disallowing republicans from blocking Medicare from bartering for better prices, and stopping them from not allowing price fixes on drugs.

Big pharma and big health industries have had their day. They failed.

Hey, I'm not arguing with you but the question still stands. How are you going to control (whom ever you think is at fault) to have a government provided healthcare plan? I just don't see it

 

[Obscurity]

Hey, I'm not arguing with you but the question still stands. How are you going to control (whom ever you think is at fault) to have a government provided healthcare plan? I just don't see it

It's not a government provided health plan.

Do you understand that?

 

[Condor060]

It's not a government provided health plan.

Do you understand that?

No, I do not. But I am more than willing to listen.

 

[vegas giants]

No, I do not. But I am more than willing to listen.

The government is just the payer.....not the provider

 

[Obscurity]

No, I do not. But I am more than willing to listen.

MFA replaces the payment system that insurance currently is. It's not the va. It's not government healthcare. It's a payment system that would eliminate private insurance and reduce cost for everyone be removing premiums co pays and deductibles. Insurance is nothing but legalized extortion.

 

[manofknowledge]

To get the level of cost down to what you say you have to pay providers and hospitals at the current rate of medicare and every provider and hospital in America has stated that will not cover cost. Doctors will get out of the business. The reason the democrats want to kill private insurance is they know half of America will want to keep good, private insurance and that is where the doctors will be.

Why does payment for medical services have be the same as current Medicare? It does not. Payment schedules can be modified easily and the revenue requirements of the law can easily accomodate reasonable payment schedules.

 

[RAMOSS]

Most of what we have is understaffed and not very energetic. Takes an act of congress to remove one as most are there through family favors.

I found when I had to live down south, the people doing their jobs in interfacing with the public, be in the DMV, hospitals, health insurance, or even on grocery lines tended very nice to talk to and sociable, but other than that, were quite often much more incompetent than the people in comparible jobs in the north east. Quite often, the people up here where direct and to the point of being rude, but the job got done, and got done fairly well, and reasonable quickly. Of course, there were exceptions, but that was a trend.

 

[Crystal]

Mick Jagger is a multi-millionaire and can afford to get fixed wherever he wants, and I believe he has a few homes in America as well as France, England and Jamaica, so why travel to England if he's already in America (as he was)? Not many of us, including you, are so privileged, so quit your silly defensiveness and try to understand that your system is broken, absurdly costly, is unfair and is riddled with people entirely unconnected with clinical care. You're paying some clerk to push a few keys on a computer somewhere. I prefer that money paid for a medic.

Why don’t you mind your own business? It’s not England’s business to interfere in American life. You lost that privilege a long time ago.

 

[Condor060]

I found when I had to live down south, the people doing their jobs in interfacing with the public, be in the DMV, hospitals, health insurance, or even on grocery lines tended very nice to talk to and sociable, but other than that, were quite often much more incompetent than the people in comparible jobs in the north east. Quite often, the people up here where direct and to the point of being rude, but the job got done, and got done fairly well, and reasonable quickly. Of course, there were exceptions, but that was a trend.

I can tell you form experience, the bible belt is the shallow end of the gene pool. I don't think thats a really hard sell.

 

[bluesmoke]

Really? While lying in my hospital bed? You don't think that is just a bit of an exaggeration of what I said. Do I really have to list the thousands of ways having competitive selections over a monopoly is more beneficial? This is your argument?

"Really? While lying in my hospital bed? You don't think that is just a bit of an exaggeration of what I said. Do I really have to list the thousands of ways having competitive selections over a monopoly is more beneficial?"

First of all, I’d rather have a “monopoly” government controlling my health insurance, as it does with Medicare, than private for-profit health insurers that will F you for a penny, which they have done and will do but for Obamacare.

What I depicted is no exaggeration. When do you think people are most concerned with coverage? It’s when the costs are the greatest. Hence, when you’re in hospital.

You tell me what health situation you’d rather have private for-profit control of health insurance vs. the government or Obamacare. You show me where industrialized nations with government health insurance is more expensive with worse outcomes. Show me.

 

[Condor060]

MFA replaces the payment system that insurance currently is. It's not the va. It's not government healthcare. It's a payment system that would eliminate private insurance and reduce cost for everyone be removing premiums co pays and deductibles. Insurance is nothing but legalized extortion.

And who will be the divisor of this program, who is going to run it, who is going to staff it, who is going to fund it?

 

[Condor060]

The government is just the payer.....not the provider

Money always comes with strings especially since we are talking about billions. Who is going to run it, who is going to staff it, who is going to over see and manage it?

 

[RealityNow]

I found when I had to live down south, the people doing their jobs in interfacing with the public, be in the DMV, hospitals, health insurance, or even on grocery lines tended very nice to talk to and sociable, but other than that, were quite often much more incompetent than the people in comparible jobs in the north east. Quite often, the people up here where direct and to the point of being rude, but the job got done, and got done fairly well, and reasonable quickly. Of course, there were exceptions, but that was a trend.

Southern States have not moved into understanding the premise of "delegating authority" to give service people the ability to actually make decisions during their interactions, that is what produces a vast array of what translates as incompetency.

Whether I worked on the West Coast, The South or in Overseas areas, I always make sure that the people who work on my teams are "well informed" and able to make informed decisions, and I encourage them to be pro-active!!! I don't care for people who have the "Its not my job attitude", or the people who "don't learn their job well enough to be self motivated".. I don't promote a premise of brevity when they need to discuss concerns, issues, items or means to improve the jobs... I do encourage them to invest in writhing out their proposals for change or improvements.

Often jobs ask people to be self motivated (during the interview process) and then they choke them down with script!!! Empowering People, Empower's People!!! and people who are empowered take their jobs with more focused dedication because their character and dignity become tied to how they represent themselves and how they engage to perform.

Some of the WORST people to work for are, power freaks, micro-managing minions, status chasers, and credit seeker"... these types will screw an employee over in a heart beat, and will sham customers, because these types.. don't care to do the work they were hired to do, they are too busy, lusting for power, which they don't know how to utilize, they stifle the jobs by micromanaging every details, they want status, but won't earn what it takes to have or get status, and they will kick down, run over and push back their employees in the pursuit of claiming credit for themselves for what they did not think of, did not do and did not even consider that something needed to be done.

Some people only work for a paycheck... and those are not the type I care to be on any team I head. I also don't favor "degree riders" who think they are due more than they've invested the work-time and experienced performance to earn.

 

[vegas giants]

Money always comes with strings especially since we are talking about billions. Who is going to run it, who is going to staff it, who is going to over see and manage it?

That would be current health and human services employees.

 

[Condor060]

First of all, I’d rather have a “monopoly” government controlling my health insurance, as it does with Medicare, than private for-profit health insurers that will F you for a penny, which they have done and will do but for Obamacare.

I support your right for you to have the healthcare you want. Isn't that a prevailing difference between Liberals and Conservatives? More Government vs less? As a veteran I can tell you I have seen this type of medical care first hand for the needs of less than 1% of the population. I can only speak to my own experience and I prefer to provide for my own medical needs.

You tell me what health situation you’d rather have private for-profit control of health insurance vs. the government or Obamacare. You show me where industrialized nations with government health insurance is more expensive with worse outcomes. Show me.

I can't. I have never been included on any of those healthcare governments. We could go back and forth all day on internet sites trying to out do each other as you will find supporting documents for both, Right?

I see it as Liberals have this desire to try an guarantee a medical needs program for everyone. And thats a good thing. Who wouldn't be for that? I know I would be for it. But the reality is (from years of our collective experience) when you try and please everyone, things get bad. I honor your aptitude and desire to help provide for those of less fortune, I have just never seen it successfully done.

 

[vegas giants]

I support your right for you to have the healthcare you want. Isn't that a prevailing difference between Liberals and Conservatives? More Government vs less? As a veteran I can tell you I have seen this type of medical care first hand for the needs of less than 1% of the population. I can only speak to my own experience and I prefer to provide for my own medical needs.



I can't. I have never been included on any of those healthcare governments. We could go back and forth all day on internet sites trying to out do each other as you will find supporting documents for both, Right?

I see it as Liberals have this desire to try an guarantee a medical needs program for everyone. And thats a good thing. Who wouldn't be for that? I know I would be for it. But the reality is (from years of our collective experience) when you try and please everyone, things get bad. I honor your aptitude and desire to help provide for those of less fortune, I have just never seen it successfully done.

How are you not getting that Medicare is not the same as the VA.


And single payer healthcare works in a dozen countries

 

[RealityNow]

Why are all the Republican who call themselves "Conservatives" incessantly talking about "money", followed by seeking ways to deny something to some faction of society at some level of citizenry.

It's the damnest thing ever!!! If they were so concerned about money, they would not have backed the Bush Wars, that set in motion an escalation of debt that is still raging forward to this day.... and absolutely nothing has been invested in Infrastructure, Fixing the Aged Power Grid, the Aged Water and Sewer System and the countless "aged working poor communities" where the homes are in decline in every State in this Nation. We have Politicians with Platinum Health Care Programs, when they are Public Servants, who should have used Medicare Decades Ago, and their Pension should be tied directly to Social Security and the standards of Social Security.

These types whine about money, only when they think it might help minorities, while they promote programs that has done absolutely nothing for poor whites, and the less that is done for poor whites, even lesser is done for minorities.... and still they can't and won't open their minds to see the truth of such fact!!!
All the while the wealthy fleece any contract the government has, and then they want grant funds for what benefits "connected wealthy groups",,, and pay out fortunes to EVERY ASPECT of the Military Industrial System....

No wonder Trump was happy to say, he loved the uneducated... and they still have not figured out why...

People should pray, their kids don't grow up to become Republicans and they should be very concerned their kids do not label themselves as Conservative anything!!!

People as I said need to learn from the past:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “N—, n—, n—.” [Editor's note: The actual word used by Atwater has been replaced with "N—" for the purposes of this article.] By 1968 you can’t say “n—” -- that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut taxes and we want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N—, n—.” So anyway you look at it, race is coming on the back burner.

If people only stop denials.... and truly face the elements that is a continual damaging mentality to America and American people...

It's sad to say, but in 10-15-20 yrs from now when all these Right Wing minded types get older and many are no longer here and those aged are in some geriatric condition... Then America will move forward at a very rapid pace..... Its what happen when those from the 1920's, 30's and 40's and 50's... aged after the Civil Rights Passage, then Civil Rights moved American forward....these few die hard that we have still raising hell today... won't be here in 10-15-20 yrs... and those that remain, the young will not want to hear anything they have to say about trying to recreate the past.

 

[manofknowledge]

I remember hearing this same bull**** when the left was peddling Obamacare! Fact is Medicare is paid for by the recipient about thirty years before the first care is rendered at age 65. Secondly the recepuent still pays for co pays, deductibles, and drugs! Medicare for all will include coverage for every illegal on the planet! So. What will the annual cost be? Do you know?

How Much Will Medicare for All Cost? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

An average family pays roughly 10% of their income for just health care.

Trump dossier author Steele gets 16-hour DOJ grilling - POLITICO

The article says to pay for single-payer payroll tax would have to triple but doesn't address what that means.

Current Medicare portion of FICA is 1.45%. Triple that would be 4.35%.

Of course this is way oversimplified and everyone does not pay the same, however the linked article also oversimplifies the situation. I would love to drop my $600/month employer group policy for tripling my Medicare tax.

 

[manofknowledge]

My medical insurance for a family plan costs around 26k a year. My company pays for 80% of the plan.

What if you lose your job or want to change jobs?

 

[Condor060]

How are you not getting that Medicare is not the same as the VA.

It isn't the distinction between the two that I don't get. Its the limitations of those current provisions while trying to make it a nation wide application. I can't tell you either way (as none of us can) how its going to work out. All I can be assured of is government involvement in these programs would be slow to implement, and slow to fix when problems crop up.

It will take an act of congress (Just a metaphor) to fix problems as there will a lot of them. I am not as enthusiastic to run down a road that has no way back. If it were me, I would make it a volunteer program (not mandated with fines for not complying) and see how it works out.

We are not other governments. We don't do things like everyone else meaning I see an opportunity for the beneficiaries of this program (and there will be many as you can not get support, medical, pharmaceutical needs for free or non profit) to lobby and make changes that are not beneficial to the insured.

We need look no further than if you want to keep your doctor, you can keep your doctor. It was never fixed and actually got worse and more expensive.

I just don't have the ability that you might have to jump in the deep end and think its going to work here because it works somewhere else. Again, I admire the cause, I'm just not convinced it will have the affect that is being argued.

 

[iguanaman]

Then we shouldn’t have it.

Who should pay for the HC of those that cannot afford it?