. impeachment, who would benefit???

[GDViking]

It seems trump and his cultists believe that impeachment would benefit the don in the election.

Many Democrats see his crimes as inexcusable and he should be punished, regardless of how the chips fall, at least the truth comes out.

So who will actually benefit???

 

[bongsaway]

It seems trump and his cultists believe that impeachment would benefit the don in the election.

Many Democrats see his crimes as inexcusable and he should be punished, regardless of how the chips fall, at least the truth comes out.

So who will actually benefit???

Don't know but I for one think two more weeks to deny everything and then start the proceedings and let the chips fall where they may. The house will almost certainly vote to impeach which will force a hearing in the senate where all the crap will see the light of day. Then let the senate do their worst by not removing the president from office. I think once more people see what is actually happening during the senate hearing, the people will punish the republicans come next election. Let trump try to run on being an impeached president. Only his base will be left after the senate hearings when all the corruption comes out.

 

[GDViking]

Don't know but I for one think two more weeks to deny everything and then start the proceedings and let the chips fall where they may. The house will almost certainly vote to impeach which will force a hearing in the senate where all the crap will see the light of day. Then let the senate do their worst by not removing the president from office. I think once more people see what is actually happening during the senate hearing, the people will punish the republicans come next election. Let trump try to run on being an impeached president. Only his base will be left after the senate hearings when all the corruption comes out.

That has been my thoughts as well, however watching trump and company sweating it out has become very entertaining...

Edit you and I started very similar threads at nearly the same time, I will defer to yours...

 

[Mycroft]

Don't know but I for one think two more weeks to deny everything and then start the proceedings and let the chips fall where they may. The house will almost certainly vote to impeach which will force a hearing in the senate where all the crap will see the light of day. Then let the senate do their worst by not removing the president from office. I think once more people see what is actually happening during the senate hearing, the people will punish the republicans come next election. Let trump try to run on being an impeached president. Only his base will be left after the senate hearings when all the corruption comes out.

What you describe is the best hope for the Dems. Unfortunately, it's not good enough.

You see, there is a tsunami of evidence pertaining to the actions of the corrupt Obama administration bearing down upon DC. People will go to jail. People will resign. People will sing like song birds. House members and Senators will see their careers swirling into the sewers.

And when the waters reside, Trump will still be there.

 

[ttwtt78640]

What you describe is the best hope for the Dems. Unfortunately, it's not good enough.

You see, there is a tsunami of evidence pertaining to the actions of the corrupt Obama administration bearing down upon DC. People will go to jail. People will resign. People will sing like song birds. House members and Senators will see their careers swirling into the sewers.

And when the waters reside, Trump will still be there.

Not only will Trump still be there but able to loudly proclaim that the not guilty vote of the Senate to be "total exoneration", let him tell you.

 

[bongsaway]

What you describe is the best hope for the Dems. Unfortunately, it's not good enough.

You see, there is a tsunami of evidence pertaining to the actions of the corrupt Obama administration bearing down upon DC. People will go to jail. People will resign. People will sing like song birds. House members and Senators will see their careers swirling into the sewers.

And when the waters reside, Trump will still be there.

In that case I better get my tropical drinks and the hammock ready to enjoy the show. Let me know when it starts if you would be so kind.

 

[Puigb]

What you describe is the best hope for the Dems. Unfortunately, it's not good enough.

You see, there is a tsunami of evidence pertaining to the actions of the corrupt Obama administration bearing down upon DC. People will go to jail. People will resign. People will sing like song birds. House members and Senators will see their careers swirling into the sewers.

And when the waters reside, Trump will still be there.

"But her Emails!!!!"

 

[Puigb]

It seems trump and his cultists believe that impeachment would benefit the don in the election.

Many Democrats see his crimes as inexcusable and he should be punished, regardless of how the chips fall, at least the truth comes out.

So who will actually benefit???

I dunno. Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for entirely political reasons, and the "punishment" for them was winning the WH, senate, and house in 2000. Then they spent the Obama years with more phony investigations, obstruction, race baiting, and birther accusations, and then were "punished" with full control of Washington again in 2016. It seems that whenever Republicans act like scumbags, they are "punished" with more political power.

 

[Mycroft]

In that case I better get my tropical drinks and the hammock ready to enjoy the show. Let me know when it starts if you would be so kind.

Just stay away from DC and you'll be okay.

You'll know it when it starts.

 

[Cardinal]

It seems trump and his cultists believe that impeachment would benefit the don in the election.

Many Democrats see his crimes as inexcusable and he should be punished, regardless of how the chips fall, at least the truth comes out.

So who will actually benefit???

Absolutely no way to know until it happens. I don't think it's really much of a choice between doing the right thing and doing the politically expedient thing (assuming, of course, that the two are somehow mutually exclusive, an assumption I do not necessarily share).

Not only will Trump still be there but able to loudly proclaim that the not guilty vote of the Senate to be "total exoneration", let him tell you.

I'm 100% aware that this will be the outcome. It won't make his proclamation true, and it won't change the fact that impeachment was the right thing to do.

 

[Trump]

Trump is a survivor .....the infamous access Hollywood tape example A.....90% of Dems thought it was gonna take him down...what was his response .....the next debate he lined up Bill Clinton's raped/molested women in a room and ambushed media. takes lemons and makes lemonade....that was unbelievable ploy that shifted the spot light and Trump survived.

Trump threatened by Pelosi with a cover up last week ....bam he unleashes with more documents and Schiff calls the ploy unAmerican. Trump is a counter puncher and does it well.

Pelosi knows what's gonna be exposed in those soon to be released docs....impeaching is not option imo. The noose tightens

Trump will benefit but the country will suffer...exactly how Trump benefited from Russian Hoax but the country suffered.

The swamp is exposing itself. "nobody nobody wants" getting the full treatment

 

[ajn678]

It seems trump and his cultists believe that impeachment would benefit the don in the election.

Many Democrats see his crimes as inexcusable and he should be punished, regardless of how the chips fall, at least the truth comes out.

So who will actually benefit???

So here's where I see it. Currently I think the Democrats are massively afraid of actually standing up to what they say they believe in(cause most of them are liars). They keep talking about impeachment to excite their base, however they won't actually follow through. Because then they can't keep promising it. In reality, impeachment proceedings will get blocked by Republicans unless there are massive changes to the current situations.

The biggest problems I have with Democrats currently is that they won't actually follow through and do what they say. If they truly believe Trump to be a traitor, and a Russian asset, that committed multiple crimes, then have the ****ing balls to do something about it. Your political position should be secondary based on what they say. The country should be put first and they should attempt to remove Trump. But like I already said, they are just acting mad for the base. The truth is that many of them were friends with Trump before he got elected.

Republicans are in a fairly good position here. In 2020 they can use the investigation to tell their base that the Democrats are evil, demonic, and tried for 4 years to unseat an elected official from the highest office. Democrats really shot themselves in the foot with all this grandstanding bull**** that they did. They really should've shut up and let the process happen. And they should be moving on at this point and getting behind a singular candidate that can actually beat Trump. But I don't see them being able to do that because they are so fractured.

 

[Grandpappy]

Let's just keep pretending everything Maddow said about Trump is true, OK? It's just easier that way.:lamo

 

[Cardinal]

Trump is a survivor .....the infamous access Hollywood tape example A.....90% of Dems thought it was gonna take him down...what was his response .....the next debate he lined up Bill Clinton's raped/molested women in a room and ambushed media. takes lemons and makes lemonade....that was unbelievable ploy that shifted the spot light and Trump survived.

Trump threatened by Pelosi with a cover up last week ....bam he unleashes with more documents and Schiff calls the ploy unAmerican. Trump is a counter puncher and does it well.

Pelosi knows what's gonna be exposed in those soon to be released docs....impeaching is not option imo. The noose tightens

Trump will benefit but the country will suffer...exactly how Trump benefited from Russian Hoax but the country suffered.

The swamp is exposing itself. "nobody nobody wants" getting the full treatment

All of that is explained by populism. It's the same phenomenon that brought Hugo Chavez to power and Venezuela to ruin. What's happened to that country and what is currently being played out in the United States has disturbing parallels.

"In the 1990s Venezuela experienced the rise of a new anti-party movement built around the figure of Hugo Cha´vez and dedicated to the fundamental transformation of society, a movement that most Venezuelans call Chavismo. If we define populism in strictly political terms—as the presence of what some scholars call a charismatic mode of linkage between voters and politicians, and a democratic discourse that relies on the idea of a popular will and a struggle between ‘the people’ and ‘the elite’—then Chavismo is clearly a populist phenomenon. Chavismo relies on charismatic linkages between voters and politicians, a relationship largely unmediated by any institutionalised party. It also bases itself on a powerful, Manichaean discourse of ‘the people versus the elite’ that naturally encourages an ‘anything goes’ attitude among Cha´vez's supporters."

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01436590310001630107?journalCode=ctwq20

Sound familiar?

 

[Trump]

All of that is explained by populism. It's the same phenomenon that brought Hugo Chavez to power and Venezuela to ruin. What's happened to that country and what is currently being played out in the United States has disturbing parallels.

"In the 1990s Venezuela experienced the rise of a new anti-party movement built around the figure of Hugo Cha´vez and dedicated to the fundamental transformation of society, a movement that most Venezuelans call Chavismo. If we define populism in strictly political terms—as the presence of what some scholars call a charismatic mode of linkage between voters and politicians, and a democratic discourse that relies on the idea of a popular will and a struggle between ‘the people’ and ‘the elite’—then Chavismo is clearly a populist phenomenon. Chavismo relies on charismatic linkages between voters and politicians, a relationship largely unmediated by any institutionalised party. It also bases itself on a powerful, Manichaean discourse of ‘the people versus the elite’ that naturally encourages an ‘anything goes’ attitude among Cha´vez's supporters."

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01436590310001630107?journalCode=ctwq20

Sound familiar?

No.

one is socialist the other is capitalist.

HUGE difference

 

[Grandpappy]

All of that is explained by populism. It's the same phenomenon that brought Hugo Chavez to power and Venezuela to ruin. What's happened to that country and what is currently being played out in the United States has disturbing parallels.

Populism is a reaction to stuffed shirt, bought out, incompetent politicians like Obama and W and Hillary. They tell lies in the campaign, then get in office and sell to the highest bidder. This has been going on for decades... We the People are sick of it. Sick of globalism. Sick of having our hard earned taxes stolen or wasted by incompetent leaders and bureaucrats. I could go on.
Look around. Populism is taking hold, and not just in this country.
I am a proud populist and will NEVER vote for any establishment candidate of any party ever again.

 

[ajn678]

All of that is explained by populism. It's the same phenomenon that brought Hugo Chavez to power and Venezuela to ruin. What's happened to that country and what is currently being played out in the United States has disturbing parallels.

"In the 1990s Venezuela experienced the rise of a new anti-party movement built around the figure of Hugo Cha´vez and dedicated to the fundamental transformation of society, a movement that most Venezuelans call Chavismo. If we define populism in strictly political terms—as the presence of what some scholars call a charismatic mode of linkage between voters and politicians, and a democratic discourse that relies on the idea of a popular will and a struggle between ‘the people’ and ‘the elite’—then Chavismo is clearly a populist phenomenon. Chavismo relies on charismatic linkages between voters and politicians, a relationship largely unmediated by any institutionalised party. It also bases itself on a powerful, Manichaean discourse of ‘the people versus the elite’ that naturally encourages an ‘anything goes’ attitude among Cha´vez's supporters."

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01436590310001630107?journalCode=ctwq20

Sound familiar?

They aren't even remotely similar....

The only thing they have in common is their vast amount of self love of themselves. Policy wise they couldn't be much further apart.

 

[Cardinal]

No.

one is socialist the other is capitalist.

HUGE difference

Nope. Chavez rose to power on the voters' desire to punish the elite and the establishment. That syncs with Republicans' desire to "turn Trump into a missile and aim it at Washington."

Venezuelans, without really appreciating the ramifications of their wishes, quite specifically and intentionally voted for destruction, just as Republicans did in 2016 (and will be doing again in 2020). That's populism, not socialism. Otherwise, you would be seeing the same thing happening in Canada, Finland, Sweden, etc. And you're not.

 

[Cardinal]

Populism is a reaction to stuffed shirt, bought out, incompetent politicians like Obama and W and Hillary. They tell lies in the campaign, then get in office and sell to the highest bidder. This has been going on for decades... We the People are sick of it. Sick of globalism. Sick of having our hard earned taxes stolen or wasted by incompetent leaders and bureaucrats. I could go on.
Look around. Populism is taking hold, and not just in this country.
I am a proud populist and will NEVER vote for any establishment candidate of any party ever again.

"We want to turn Trump into a missile and aim it at Washington."

Without realizing it, Republicans were modelling themselves exactly after the populist movement in Venezuela. If you want to know what our country will look like after another sustained Trumpian populism, you need look no further than Venezuela.

 

[Grandpappy]

Nope. Chavez rose to power on the voters' desire to punish the elite and the establishment. That syncs with Republicans' desire to "turn Trump into a missile and aim it at Washington."

Venezuelans, without really appreciating the ramifications of their wishes, quite specifically and intentionally voted for destruction, just as Republicans did in 2016 (and will be doing again in 2020). That's populism, not socialism. Otherwise, you would be seeing the same thing happening in Canada, Finland, Sweden, etc. And you're not.

Chavez ran out of other peoples money. Sounds like a socialist to me. Not even close to Trump.

 

[Trump]

Nope. Chavez rose to power on the voters' desire to punish the elite and the establishment. That syncs with Republicans' desire to "turn Trump into a missile and aim it at Washington."

Venezuelans, without really appreciating the ramifications of their wishes, quite specifically and intentionally voted for destruction, just as Republicans did in 2016 (and will be doing again in 2020). That's populism, not socialism. Otherwise, you would be seeing the same thing happening in Canada, Finland, Sweden, etc. And you're not.

agree to disagree

Trump is no Chavez imho

 

[Grandpappy]

"We want to turn Trump into a missile and aim it at Washington."

Without realizing it, Republicans were modelling themselves exactly after the populist movement in Venezuela. If you want to know what our country will look like after another sustained Trumpian populism, you need look no further than Venezuela.

No, that's what would happen if Bernie is elected.

 

[Perotista]

It seems trump and his cultists believe that impeachment would benefit the don in the election.

Many Democrats see his crimes as inexcusable and he should be punished, regardless of how the chips fall, at least the truth comes out.

So who will actually benefit???

Since those who want impeachment seems to be a one party affair, short term, Trump may benefit from it. The one party affair, you can see that 71% of Democrats want Trump impeached and removed from office, 10% of Democrats do not. Republicans on the other hand show 81% against with only 9% favoring impeachment and removal. You can't get more partisan than that. Independents, the non-affiliated, less to non-partisan, probably most not in either the pro or anti Trump camps. 31% favor impeachment and removal, 41% are opposed with 28% not sure or don't give an owl's hoot one way or the other. Question 11.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/dl1xj5lsd9/econTabReport.pdf

Who does impeachment favor, I look back at Bill Clinton's impeachment. His approval rating among independents, only independents rose from 51% to 70% with his overall approval rating going up from 59% to 65% during the impeachment process and trial. Most Americans didn't want Bill to go anywhere. His impeachment was also a one party affair which backfired on the Republicans. That was the short term effects, Trump would probably gain in the short term in that independents don't like a one party affair as it stinks of a very partisan political vendetta against a sitting president.

Long term, 3 months after the trial ended, Bill Clinton dropped back to a 50% approval among independents. What he gained during impeachment, he lost once it was over. I figure the same would happen to Trump. But if Trump was impeached, it might end the political vindictiveness against him which might help come reelection time or not. It could lead to a political campaign against the Democrats that they tried to railroad a legitimate president out of office. Sort of a silent coup. I think if impeachment happens before the beginning of next year and all the presidential campaigns, it would be a wash. A waste of time, energy and money as the senate would never gain the 2/3rds majority needed to remove Trump. Ala Bill Clinton in his 1999 senate trial.

 

[Cardinal]

No, that's what would happen if Bernie is elected.

Non sequitur. Was Trump voted to act as a punishment against the elite and the establishment or wasn't he? And if he was, how is that any different than the motives for putting Chavez into power?

In both cases, voters want their preferred candidate to be an agent of destruction, and in both cases they got their wish.

 

[ocean515]

It seems trump and his cultists believe that impeachment would benefit the don in the election.

Many Democrats see his crimes as inexcusable and he should be punished, regardless of how the chips fall, at least the truth comes out.

So who will actually benefit???

Everyday Americans will benefit. Very important to see what is the most important thing on the minds of elected politicians.