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If conservatives actually cared about children....

HumblePi said:
Sick Migrants Undergoing Lifesaving Care Can Now Be Deported

LOS ANGELES — Maria Isabel Bueso was 7 years old when she came to the United States from Guatemala at the invitation of doctors who were conducting a clinical trial for the treatment of her rare, disfiguring genetic disease. The trial was short on participants, and thanks to her enrollment, it eventually led the Food and Drug Administration to approve a medication for the condition that has increased survival by more than a decade.

Now 24, Ms. Bueso, who had been told she likely would not live past adolescence, has participated in several medical studies. She has won awards for her advocacy on behalf of people with rare diseases, appearing before lawmakers in Washington and in Sacramento. Over the years, her parents have paid for the treatment that keeps her alive with private medical insurance.

But last week, Ms. Bueso received a letter from the United States government that told her she would face deportation if she did not leave the country within 33 days, an order described by her doctor, lawyer and mother as tantamount to a “death sentence.”

“Can This Administration Sink Any Lower Than Threatening to Deport Kids with Cancer?” – Outrage over Trump Decision to End All Non-Military Deferred Action

“Can This Administration Sink Any Lower Than Threatening to Deport Kids with Cancer?” - Outrage over Trump Decision to End All Non-Military Deferred Action - America's Voice

The same Trump administration that is seeking to end the best-known deferred action program – DACA for Dreamers – has quietly announced the termination of all other types of non-military deferred action requests processed by USCIS. Deferred action is a form of prosecutorial discretion that says the U.S. does not intend to deport someone, usually because it has been determined there is no public interest served in doing so, often due to a humanitarian issue such as a child who requires medical care unavailable in other countries.

Despite the quiet way the Trump administration announced the news, the implications are massive on people’s lives and the outcry in response has been loud. Yesterday, a host of Boston-area medical professionals and immigration advocates spoke out in response, highlighting the real families and childrens’ lives put at unnecessary risk as a result:

Michael Levenson in the Boston Globe, “‘Our government has issued them a death sentence’: Children receiving treatment at Boston hospitals face deportation”:

Severely ill immigrants, including children with cancer, cystic fibrosis, and other grave conditions, are facing deportation under a change in Trump administration policy that immigration advocates are calling cruel and inhumane.

Trump Administration Now Targeting Sick Children for Deportation – Rolling Stone

The Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

The administration quietly eliminated a program that allowed severely ill undocumented immigrants and their families to remain in the United States for medical care


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AND THIS IS OKAY WITH YOU?? REALLY?
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Yea I’m just fine with it. *sarcasm*. No, but I’m not talking about Trump here
 
Overitall said:
Well, I suppose it's acceptable to change the goal posts.

This fallacy, (or an example of it) is simply put: Two wrongs don't make a right.
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If you were really interested in investing some actual effort into this thread beyond your one line bumper sticker replies, you might read that i do not consider either to be "wrong" enough to separate families. No misdemeanor warrants that, none.
 
Drawdown said:



And here you are condemning and judging. I guess it is easier. As for passing laws that the lawmakers never face the consequences of, that is a very bi-partisan affair.
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Most conservatives who oppose abortions are not likely to ever face the consequences of having one.
 
Joel said:
Hey, you could just leave now and beat the crowd.
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I could do that but, I think I'll stick around long enough to see if you answer my question.
 
Overitall said:
If conservatives actually cared about children....
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okay, conservatives care about their own, but they don't care about "children" as much as they claim, they call liberals murderers, but they do nothing beyond that to help any children but their own and the ones who belong to the few families they think deserve their very limited actual help.

It is that hypocrisy that I am calling out.
 
Joel said:
Most conservatives who oppose abortions are not likely to ever face the consequences of having one.
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So? Rights are determined by society and they are just as much a part of society as anyone else. They are as free to support or oppose whatever it is they choose to support or oppose as a liberal, a libertarian, a Green, etc. Each person has their own reasons for supporting/opposing things and it does not make them inherently wrong just because they fall on the opposite side. Sure I would like to see them be more supportive of the poor, particularly children, but I would also like to see changes in our benefits system to address some of the issues they have with it.
 
Joel said:
what fallacy? name it.
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You're attempting to argue that no matter who you are, that you're somehow a criminal. Simple because "no one" has seen you commit a crime.

Illegal immigrants are caught at the border, or caught because they don't have documentation showing them to be a US citizen.

Your rule says that I can just simple say you're a thief, and you're somehow actually a thief. Because you've only been see "not being" a thief, and you just haven't been caught in the act yet.

If there is a type of fallacy for it, then it's slipping my mind. But what you described sure as hell sounds like one.
 
Joel said:
If you want to call abortion murder and the people who get abortions, murderers, then you are guilty of the same thing you are accusing me of.
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Good thing I don't call them that.

Do you call people who drag their children hundreds of miles through desert to cross a border illegally, and end up getting their children killed murderers?
 
Oborosen said:
Good thing I don't call them that.

Do you call people who drag their children hundreds of miles through desert to cross a border illegally, and end up getting their children killed murderers?
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Imagine how bad it was where they came from for them still believe it to be worth it the very dangerous trip.
 
Joel said:
okay, conservatives care about their own, but they don't care about "children" as much as they claim, they call liberals murderers, but they do nothing beyond that to help any children but their own and the ones who belong to the few families they think deserve their very limited actual help.

It is that hypocrisy that I am calling out.
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Great!

Now do you see why you're committing the fallacy of "hasty generalization" (in the least)? Not all conservatives agree with the policy of separating children anymore than all liberals are murderers (via abortion). It's a known fact that prior administrations practiced the same policy -- including Obama.
 
Joel said:
Imagine how bad it was where they came from for them still believe it to be worth it the very dangerous trip.
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Yes, I can imagine. If it's actually that bad anyways.
The one woman who kidnapped her daughter, and came to America, the same one got he cover of Time magazine.

She was not immigrating for any such reason.

Many of these people actually do not, as their claims for asylum are not valid. Had these people came to an actual point of entry, and presented themselves for legal immigration, or asylum, and their reason for coming was actually that. Then their children would not have died in their parents pursuits to come to this country.

Then again, this is simply you trying to wag the same withered finger of morality at me as before.

Don't be upset with conservatives, or anyone else in the US for that matter. When some jackass is willing to sacrifice the lives of their children, in the process of doing something that is obviously illegal.
 
Oborosen said:
Yes, I can imagine. If it's actually that bad anyways.
The one woman who kidnapped her daughter, and came to America, the same one got he cover of Time magazine.

She was not immigrating for any such reason.

Many of these people actually do not, as their claims for asylum are not valid. Had these people came to an actual point of entry, and presented themselves for legal immigration, or asylum, and their reason for coming was actually that. Then their children would not have died in their parents pursuits to come to this country.

Then again, this is simply you trying to wag the same withered finger of morality at me as before.

Don't be upset with conservatives, or anyone else in the US for that matter. When some jackass is willing to sacrifice the lives of their children, in the process of doing something that is obviously illegal.
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You are running that morality finger metaphor into the ground. You made it up and you can own it, it has nothing to do with me or anything that I have posted. If something hit a nerve in you, or you read something that made you feel uncomfortable about how you see yourself, that is not my problem. People make all kinds of ridiculous absurd false claims about liberals all the time everywhere, if Trump, the Republican party, or any social conservative believe it actually stands on any moral high ground relative to everyone else, then that is their own self-deception and it has nothing to do with me.

Your morality is your business, but your hypocrisy is fair game.
 
Overitall said:
Great!

Now do you see why you're committing the fallacy of "hasty generalization" (in the least)? Not all conservatives agree with the policy of separating children anymore than all liberals are murderers (via abortion). It's a known fact that prior administrations practiced the same policy -- including Obama.
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Funny how that modifier is never used when generizing liberals.
 
Joel said:
Like when they commit a misdemeanor by ...

Trespassing on national forest lands
Taking advantage of Smokey the Bear’s likeness
Purchasing fireworks
Possession of marijuana
Mailing dentures (yes, you read that right)
Cutting down your own tree for Christmas
Mailing your NCAA bracket

Those are all the same level of crime.
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do you care about the USA?

do you care about borders?

or are those laws immaterial to you?
 
Drawdown said:
So? Rights are determined by society and they are just as much a part of society as anyone else. They are as free to support or oppose whatever it is they choose to support or oppose as a liberal, a libertarian, a Green, etc. Each person has their own reasons for supporting/opposing things and it does not make them inherently wrong just because they fall on the opposite side. Sure I would like to see them be more supportive of the poor, particularly children, but I would also like to see changes in our benefits system to address some of the issues they have with it.
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great post that I happen to agree with most of it, but how is it a rebuttal of what I had said in my post.
 
gdgyva said:
do you care about the USA?

do you care about borders?

or are those laws immaterial to you?
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Where in my list of misdemeanors did you see anything that would indicate that I don't care about the USA?
 
Jesse Booth said:
There's one and only one way to apply for asylum, and that's to turn yourself over to American custody at a port of entry. The overwhelming majority of families being split up are asylum applicants. The only law breakers in this case are the border agents, enforcing a direct violation of the constitution by way of Article VI making international treaties the supreme law of the land. Our asylum laws are established via treaty.
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Immigrants are not restricted in applying for asylum at ports of entry only.

“You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States.
Questions and Answers: Asylum Eligibility and Applications | USCIS
 
Joel said:
Where in my list of misdemeanors did you see anything that would indicate that I don't care about the USA?
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If conservatives cared about children, they would not make excuses for why it is ok to rip any child away from their parents, stick them in cages and forget which warehouse they have been sent to, who have, at most, committed a misdemeanor, not a felony, when they crossed the border.

it is as if crossing the border means nothing to you

either our border and our sovereignty mean something, or they dont

we let in over 1 million LEGAL immigrants a year

many more want to come, but are told to wait...including my wifes relatives

this country was founded by immigrants, and built by immigrants....and is stronger for it

but we cant take them all, nor should we try.....and those that cross the border without signing in....i have no pity or remorse for
 
gdgyva said:
If conservatives cared about children, they would not make excuses for why it is ok to rip any child away from their parents, stick them in cages and forget which warehouse they have been sent to, who have, at most, committed a misdemeanor, not a felony, when they crossed the border.

it is as if crossing the border means nothing to you

either our border and our sovereignty mean something, or they dont

we let in over 1 million LEGAL immigrants a year

many more want to come, but are told to wait...including my wifes relatives

this country was founded by immigrants, and built by immigrants....and is stronger for it

but we cant take them all, nor should we try.....and those that cross the border without signing in....i have no pity or remorse for
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Not being purposefully cruel to children for any reason matters far more to me than people with no bad intent walking across a border.
 
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