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I Have Changed My Mind On Impeachment

code1211 said:
In what way was "justice" obstructed?
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In the 10 ways detailed in the Mueller report.

I think you guys are confusing the fact that he wasn't indicted by Mueller with the fact that he wasn't guilty. The fact is that those charges are just waiting for him to step out of the whitehouse, after his impeachment, to land him in jail. But you guys go ahead keep on rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and pretending nothing is wrong...
 
TomFitz said:
There is no evidence to support any of your claims other than the first one.

There is no evidence that Democrats are losing ground. None. Except maybe for the wishful thinking meme that the Trumps forces are promoting. The one that’s being parroted in this thread.

There are bigger issues in this than mere horse race partisan politics.
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I know you believe that. Which Republican Senators do you believe will vote for impeachment? The correct answer is zero, whereas you may have had 2-3 about a month ago. That's losing ground.
 
Take away the political persuasion of any elected official and what exactly are you voting for? The Ukrainian government officials have ALL said they felt no pressure to conduct the investigation and felt nothing was improper or untoward. The money was released without a deliverable. Despite the course the democrats have tried to lay out, every witness has answered the same...at the end of the day, there was no quid pro quo...there was no bribery. There was no illegal act. The former ambassadors when asked point blank had to admit the facts. The Ukrainian president has answered quite clearly there was no pressure or expectation. Senior Ukrainian officials have stated directly...no threats...no quid pro quo.

That the democrats used this to launch their impeachment quest proves just how desperate they are. And even with this ridiculous charade they have had to change it at least once so far from a charge of quid pro quo...which they knew didnt actually happen, to a redefined charge of bribery which DEFINITELY didnt happen.

The rats that support impeachment are voting their hatred. Their vote is the same now that it was Nov 2016...before the man even took office. There is simply no there there. Even democrats that arent polluted with TDS know this was a charade.
 
Moderate Right said:
In a polling thread I predicted that in the Senate the vote to remove Trump from office would be 47 -53, with a couple of party defections on each side. I now want to change that to a total of 45-55, with zero Republicans voting to remove Trump from office and 2-3 Democrats failing to vote to remove Trump from office. I also now believe that when the actual vote in the House as to whether to impeach happens, there will now be zero defections from Republicans and a couple of defections from the Democrats.

In other words, this will be a total disaster for the Democrats. Zero Republicans from either the House or Senate will be on board to impeach while both the House and Senate will have Democrats defecting from the party line. McConnell will have the last laugh, exposing the Democratic overreach and abuse of power for what it was and the impeachment will give Trump a big win, raising unparalleled amounts of money for 2020 and being able to use the ammunition that not even moderate Republicans backed impeachment while Democrats couldn't even muster up 100% from their own party.

Democrats were hoping they could move the needle on Republicans and it severely backfired, causing zero Republican's needles to move and, most importantly, having some in their own party to not have their needles moved toward impeachment. And the worst part for the Democrats was there were a handful of Republicans who started out with an open mind but the partisan sham investigations have shown them that the impeachment was indeed nothing but a partisan sham.
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The trump clown car of an administration is a world-wide disaster. The fact that the cowardly GOP is complicit in trump's criminality is a world-wide tragedy.
 
lurchadams said:
The trump clown car of an administration is a world-wide disaster. The fact that the cowardly GOP is complicit in trump's criminality is a world-wide tragedy.
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Time to refill the kool aid jug. You guys thought three years ago Trump was going to give Putin the keys to the White House. Hasn't happened yet.
 
VanceMack said:
Take away the political persuasion of any elected official and what exactly are you voting for? The Ukrainian government officials have ALL said they felt no pressure to conduct the investigation and felt nothing was improper or untoward.
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That's because they are still trying to walk a very tricky tightrope here, with him still in the whitehouse and still able to cut the military aid. They are saying what someone with a gun pointed at their head would be expected to say.

The money was released without a deliverable.
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Only after the whistleblower's report came out.


Despite the course the democrats have tried to lay out, every witness has answered the same...at the end of the day, there was no quid pro quo...there was no bribery. There was no illegal act.
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What proceedings are you listening to?

Was There a Quid Pro Quo With Ukraine? A Guide to All the Evidence – Rolling Stone
Impeachment news: White House official Morrison confirms a Ukraine quid pro quo - Vox
Sondland Updates Impeachment Testimony, Describing Ukraine Quid Pro Quo - The New York Times
Top NSC Russia official confirms key testimony linking Trump to quid pro quo - POLITICO

That the democrats used this to launch their impeachment quest proves just how desperate they are. And even with this ridiculous charade they have had to change it at least once so far from a charge of quid pro quo...which they knew didnt actually happen, to a redefined charge of bribery which DEFINITELY didnt happen.
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The quid pro quo still stands. "Bribery" is just a more lay term that average folks, especially the ones in Trump country, can understand. The fancy Latin goes over most of their heads. Don't let that confuse you.
 
Moderate Right said:
Time to refill the kool aid jug. You guys thought three years ago Trump was going to give Putin the keys to the White House. Hasn't happened yet.
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Oh really? Do you actually believe what you type? trump has proven, over and over that he is Putin's bitch.


Russia lands forces at former U.S. air base in northern Syria - Business Insider

Russian have ground forces occupied what was a US air base in northern Syria until US troops withdrew last month.
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On Thursday, Zvezda said Russia had set up a helicopter base at an airport in the northeastern Syrian city of Qamishli, a move designed to increase Moscow's control over events on the ground there.
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How does that Faux News kool-aid taste my friend?
 
ataraxia said:
That's because they are still trying to walk a very tricky tightrope here, with him still in the whitehouse and still able to cut the military aid. They are saying what someone with a gun pointed at their head would be expected to say.



Only after the whistleblower's report came out.




What proceedings are you listening to?

Was There a Quid Pro Quo With Ukraine? A Guide to All the Evidence – Rolling Stone
Impeachment news: White House official Morrison confirms a Ukraine quid pro quo - Vox
Sondland Updates Impeachment Testimony, Describing Ukraine Quid Pro Quo - The New York Times
Top NSC Russia official confirms key testimony linking Trump to quid pro quo - POLITICO



The quid pro quo still stands. "Bribery" is just a more lay term that average folks, especially the ones in Trump country, can understand. The fancy Latin goes over most of their heads. Don't let that confuse you.
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You are ridiculous. Your arguments are ridiculous. The only allegations of quid pro quo are the ones that you have swallowed that you were spoon fed...the same type of **** you have been swallowing for 3 years.

The Ukrainian president must be lying because he doesnt support your allegations. The ambassadors that at the end of the day are forced to admit they have no evidence of a crime must be lying because they dont support your allegations.

You DO know they changed their song and dance to bribery because in order for there to be an actual quid pro quo, there has to be an actual offer of something to a specific individual that can then in turn reciprocate, and that the Ukrainian government (and the fact that the money was released without a deliverable) demolished thew quid pro quo argument...right?

Meh...why bother. Dont worry. When their impeachment argument changes again they will let you know what to say and how to respond.
 
Moderate Right said:
The general theme of the thread is that Democrats went into this hoping some Republicans would defect from the president and actually had a handful that were willing to listen and have an open mind. When the Democrats proved it is nothing but a partisan witch hunt to dethrone Trump, Democrats are going backwards in losing the votes they may have had. Bottom line is, there will be zero Republicans voting for impeachment while the Democrats will have 2-3 defectors. Democrats are losing ground not gaining ground.
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In the partisan eye of a beholder.
 
VanceMack said:
You are ridiculous. Your arguments are ridiculous. The only allegations of quid pro quo are the ones that you have swallowed that you were spoon fed...the same type of **** you have been swallowing for 3 years.

The Ukrainian president must be lying because he doesnt support your allegations. The ambassadors that at the end of the day are forced to admit they have no evidence of a crime must be lying because they dont support your allegations.
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OK. You can believe what you like. Just make sure then to avoid reading stories like this:
CNN host Fareed Zakaria was set to interview Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky until scandal took shape - CNNPolitics
 
code1211 said:
Has Trump been talking about Obama's Birth Certificate in the real world lately? What are you talking about?

Have you noticed that Trump is talking about all of the positives and the Democrat-Socialists are only talking about how miserable they are?

There has NEVER been a place or a time in the history of mankind where the average guy can make a better life for himself and his family than right here, right now.

What's wrong with you guys?
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no, Trump is busy name calling and playing victim.

Nobody takes him seriously on policy because of his consistent pattern of not following any of his pronouncements up. the China trade deal is only the latest in a long line of examples.
 
TomFitz said:
This is Trumpster nonsense.

I’ll give you the same chance that I’ve given every other Trumpster that I’ve asked this question of. For the record, not ONE of you has ever even attempted to address it.

What kind of “coup” puts Mike Pence in the White House?
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one which would continue to hound Pence as accessory after Trump was removed....the swamp is mad and I couldn't be happier.:lol:
 
ataraxia said:
Which part exactly? You do know that Mueller’s obstruction charges are criminally indictable as soon as Trump steps out of the whitehouse, don’t you?
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Im going to help you and your fellow liberals out even though I know it wont do a damn bit of good. When you say something like this: "And oh don’t forget all these witness intimidation charges he is racking up every day now with his tweets during the impeachment hearings...." it disqualifies you from being taken seriously. Anyone dopey enough to think what Trump tweeted is some kind of crime and should be included in impeachment articles, isnt someone who should be taken seriously on the topic of impeachment. If you dont know what witness intimidation is--and you dont--there is no reason for me to believe that you know what an impeachable offense is either. What Trump tweeted was dopey and unhelpful. To the infected and hateful, it was criminal and intimidating. You guys on the left are the boy who cried wolf. Or, more precisely, the boy who cried impeachment
 
Moderate Right said:
In a polling thread I predicted that in the Senate the vote to remove Trump from office would be 47 -53, with a couple of party defections on each side. I now want to change that to a total of 45-55, with zero Republicans voting to remove Trump from office and 2-3 Democrats failing to vote to remove Trump from office. I also now believe that when the actual vote in the House as to whether to impeach happens, there will now be zero defections from Republicans and a couple of defections from the Democrats.

In other words, this will be a total disaster for the Democrats. Zero Republicans from either the House or Senate will be on board to impeach while both the House and Senate will have Democrats defecting from the party line. McConnell will have the last laugh, exposing the Democratic overreach and abuse of power for what it was and the impeachment will give Trump a big win, raising unparalleled amounts of money for 2020 and being able to use the ammunition that not even moderate Republicans backed impeachment while Democrats couldn't even muster up 100% from their own party.

Democrats were hoping they could move the needle on Republicans and it severely backfired, causing zero Republican's needles to move and, most importantly, having some in their own party to not have their needles moved toward impeachment. And the worst part for the Democrats was there were a handful of Republicans who started out with an open mind but the partisan sham investigations have shown them that the impeachment was indeed nothing but a partisan sham.
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You’re probably right about the vote counts but do you think the Democrats care? Their goal is to promote a narrative to their voters and the American public as a whole. This isn’t about a crime. It’s about the 2020 election and the important question isn’t what congress does but what the American electorate does.

Will this impeachment be a win at the ballot box for Democrats or for Republicans?
 
Fletch said:
Im going to help you and your fellow liberals out even though I know it wont do a damn bit of good. When you say something like this: "And oh don’t forget all these witness intimidation charges he is racking up every day now with his tweets during the impeachment hearings...." it disqualifies you from being taken seriously. Anyone dopey enough to think what Trump tweeted is some kind of crime and should be included in impeachment articles, isnt someone who should be taken seriously on the topic of impeachment. If you dont know what witness intimidation is--and you dont--there is no reason for me to believe that you know what an impeachable offense is either. What Trump tweeted was dopey and unhelpful. To the infected and hateful, it was criminal and intimidating. You guys on the left are the boy who cried wolf. Or, more precisely, the boy who cried impeachment
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It was funny listening to Yovanovitch testifying that she felt intimidated by Trump and yet there she was, testifying. Guess she wasn't as intimidated as she claimed.
 
Moderate Right said:
It was funny listening to Yovanovitch testifying that she felt intimidated by Trump and yet there she was, testifying. Guess she wasn't as intimidated as she claimed.
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Not only that, but it was Schiff that read her the tweet. Does that make him an accessory to witness intimidation?
 
code1211 said:
There is no evidence.

The articles of impeachment are just laying there with blanks in areas that might indicate what crime was committed.

Filling in those blanks seems to have been changing since the election as follows:

Russia
Colluuuuuuuusion
Mueller Report.
Campaign Finance
Ukraine
Quid Pro Quo
Bribery

This all boils down to "We just HATE ORANGE PEOPLE.

To even the least intelligent, this shows that this whole practice is an exercise in the end justifying the means.

The Democrat-Socialists are so committed to the lies they are telling that the truth no longer exists for them.

I wonder if they'll ever decide to do any work.
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There is plenty of evidence, and more to come.

tRump himself is filling in the blanks in the articles of impeachment; Extorsion, Bribery, Self Dealing, Obstruction, Witness Tampering …

It all boils down to:

"What, then, is an impeachable offense?" Gerald R. Ford, R-Mich., asked rhetorically in 1970, when as House minority leader he sought the impeachment of Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas. Ford replied with a stark answer that has become famous: "The only honest answer is that an impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history."
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Accusing Democrats of lying, considering tRumps constant lying is most disingenuous; but expected.

Impeachment is laid out in the Constitution, it is the remedy to either exonerate or condemn those that would abuse their power … or be accused of it. It is the civilized alternative to the Roman solution of assignation. Trump can either cooperate and defend himself or suffer the consequences. But in the end THIS Impeachment is really a decision of whether any AmeriCAN is above the law; our founding fathers would vote a resounding AbsaByGodLutely NO!!!!!!!!!
 
Trump said:
one which would continue to hound Pence as accessory after Trump was removed....the swamp is mad and I couldn't be happier.:lol:
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Asit is shaping up it wouldn't be surprising if these Articles of Impeachment include Pence. AND, other members of tRumps misadministration.
 
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