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I Challenge Atheists to Submit a Proof of Their Claim that God Does Not Exist

Mashmont said:
My elegant proof thread eliminates all your stupid substitutes because of the good fruits argument. See Proof God Exists: Here is my 11-Step Logical Proof. Enjoy.

There are no equivalent of canonized saints, i.e. universally recognized great people, who are devotees of leprechauns, Zeus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or any other ridiculous examples you people want to use.
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Your 'proof' is based on 5 postulates and requires their acceptance on faith in order for the proof to work. If that constitutes a proof of God's existence, then here is my 5-step counterproof that He doesn't exist.

Postulate #1: I'm right about absolutely everything.
Postulate #2: Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.
Postulate #3: There is universal acceptance inside my head that I'm right about everything.
Postulate #4: I say God doesn't exist.
Therefore God does not exist.
 
Mashmont said:
Leprechauns fail my good fruits argument proof in the other thread. The God of Abraham does not.

But once again, this thread is strictly for proof of YOUR claim that God doesn't exist. We are all waiting for it.
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I am waiting for your proof of the non-existence of leprechauns. If a genius like you can prove the existence of a god then surely proof of the non-existence of leprechauns should be an easy task for you.
 
eman623 said:
Your 'proof' is based on 5 postulates and requires their acceptance on faith in order for the proof to work. If that constitutes a proof of God's existence, then here is my 5-step counterproof that He doesn't exist.

Postulate #1: I'm right about absolutely everything.
Postulate #2: Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.
Postulate #3: There is universal acceptance inside my head that I'm right about everything.
Postulate #4: I say God doesn't exist.
Therefore God does not exist.
Click to expand...

Starting off with the conclusion that this god exists, as Mashmomt does, is not logical.
 
Mashmont said:
So the purpose of this thread is for atheists to offer a logical proof or any kind of proof that the God of Abraham doesn't exist.
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I'm not the kind of person you're talking about (I'd be called agnostic atheist if I cared for the labels) and have never demanded proof of anything unless it is being presented as justification for some policy or action. I don't believe in any of the various gods proposed throughout history because they're either too poorly defined or specific defined characteristics don't strike me as believable. It could be argued that some commonly claimed characteristics have been disproved (as least as far as that is possible as a general concept), but believers have a tendency to shift the goal posts when any of their specific claims are challenged.

For anyone to seriously try to "disprove" the existence of any god, you would first need to proved a clear and unshifting definition of that god. It would be on your defined characteristics that the claim would be assessed, not really a disproof of God but a disproof of what you believe God is.

Another issue would be assertions about the "supernatural" or "spiritual" aspect attributed to God being used to dismiss any challenge out of hand on the basis that "Humans can't possibly understand" or "God just can because hes all-powerful". If you didn't completely eliminate that aspect, any logical approach would be dead in the water.
 
Mashmont said:
No, I said many have claimed God does not exist. Nobody has attempted to prove that positive claim in here. Wonder why not. lol.
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1.1 million innocent people died at the Auschwitz concentration camp. There is your proof that there is no all loving god.
 
Crosscheck said:
1.1 million innocent people died at the Auschwitz concentration camp. There is your proof that there is no all loving god.
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And an all-loving god would never give children cancer.
 
Mashmont said:
Nonsense. Mathmatically and logically, you can readily prove things don't exist. For example you can prove quotients of division by zero don't exist. So just admit you have no proof, because your statements are FALSE.
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Nonsense, you move the strike zone from the real discussion. It doesn't matter if a 'God' exists. What matters is does any god gives a rat's rump about those who worship him/her/them. Throughout the history of man we have worshipped a variety of gods, some quite similar to the present day Christian one. What we need to examine does worship of this newer god help/hurt mankind?

So does any god help us?

A child of a faithful couple dies with a painful cancer at age 4. A pregnant mother gunned down in a crossfire. Drug gangs murdering the faithful. The Bible speaks of divine intervention to protect the Jews but today Christians are slaughtered around the world. The Bible speaks of Jesus feeding the masses with so little bread and fish yet today the faithful suffer starvation around the world.

Is there any evidence the faithful fare better than those who ignore the help of any deity? In what way do we determine if the faithful benefit from giving their money to a preacher, help fund missions compared to the government doing the same missions.

Some of us in the Infantry had a somewhat dark saying- "Your reward will come in heaven coz you ain't getting crap here!"

Perhaps the biggest benefit from having faith in a god is enduring the human condition when the less faithful would rebel. Imagine if the faithful Founding fathers had decided to turn the other cheek or meekly render unto Caesar what is Caesar's instead of rebelling.

I see the argument about existence is moot. Is there really such a thing as 'god's will'????

I'd say the evidence shows no evidence of any god helping anyone that doesn't have an equal example of faith not helping.

Does a god exist??? who knows. Does a god help humans.... I'd say no... BELIEF in a caring god does help some to endure life's issues, but millions do so without having faith in any god.

I can't find the quote online but I remember a saying- a god exists as long as their are people who BELIEVE in the god. Gods die when the people stop believing. Look at history of religions, gods do die when people stop believing in them.

Hope you understand the point I'm making... :peace
 
Mashmont said:
Angel and I have both penned logical proofs showing God does exist. In my decades in chat. I've only seen atheists demanding proof, but never offering proof of THEIR position, or even attempting to do so.

So the purpose of this thread is for atheists to offer a logical proof or any kind of proof that the God of Abraham doesn't exist. This thread is NOT for rebuttal of Angel's proof or my proof. You may do that in those other threads, not here.

This thread is for atheists to put their money where their mouths are. And please don't cower like little mewlings and say "No, no. We don't have to prove there is no God. We just want to be left alone." That defense works only if you admit to being agnostic and saying "I don't know". But most of you atheists state emphatically the positive claim that God doesn't exist and you come with an activist agenda. So you need to be put on the burner and forced to prove your position.

Prediction: Not one single atheist will offer a proof, because it's a lie. It's like trying to write a book on 'winning roulette moves' It's like trying to prove blue is green or up is down.

So let's see what you got. You have the floor, atheists........
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“So the purpose of this thread is for atheists to offer a logical proof or any kind of proof that the God of Abraham doesn't exist.”

Your premise is that God does exist, that you have shown evidence, thus it is up to others, apparently limited to atheist only, to disprove the existence of God. However, you have not proven God exists in the same realm of accepted evidence of fact, the same context, as is normal in such a debate as to the existence of a supernatural being. All others, atheist or not, need do is refute your evidence of existence with evidence of fact that is normal to the realm of debate when arguing the existence of something. Maybe you should say your argument is in the realm of religion as respects the God of Abraham. That would be a logical context for debate, rather than in the scientific or other context. Otherwise, your OP has no thread of logic that is rational/sensible.

What you need to understand is an argument of faith does not belong outside of it’s own realm by those who are believers. A belief of faith does not require normal evidence of fact because then it would not be, by definition, faith. If you require that others must prove the non-existence of God with supporting evidence of fact that w/o which God must exist, you are excluding faith as the necessary element for your belief in God. In which case, you have, by definition, no faith.
 
zyzygy said:
Your argument is tosh. I do not claim that gods do not exist, I claim that there is no proof for the existence of any god. I could link to Hindu sites that "prove" the existence of Lord Krishna.
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You people ought to enter the Olympics in the 100-meter dash, as fast as you're running from your previous assertions that God doesn't exist. lol.
 
eman623 said:
Your 'proof' is based on 5 postulates and requires their acceptance on faith in order for the proof to work. If that constitutes a proof of God's existence, then here is my 5-step counterproof that He doesn't exist.

Postulate #1: I'm right about absolutely everything.
Postulate #2: Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.
Postulate #3: There is universal acceptance inside my head that I'm right about everything.
Postulate #4: I say God doesn't exist.
Therefore God does not exist.
Click to expand...

So no proof, so we devolve into silliness. Thanks for speaking volumes about atheism.
 
Mashmont said:
My elegant proof thread eliminates all your stupid substitutes because of the good fruits argument. See Proof God Exists: Here is my 11-Step Logical Proof. Enjoy.

There are no equivalent of canonized saints, i.e. universally recognized great people, who are devotees of leprechauns, Zeus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or any other ridiculous examples you people want to use.

Now please post proof of YOUR contention that God doesn't exist. Please stop dodging.
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You have only proven that God exists as a concept. The canonization of saints is proof of nothing except the ability of men (declared powerful by other men) to canonize them. Declaring yourself (or anyone else) to be wise, good and/or truthful does not convert their opinions into facts. You simply cannot use the existence of texts, testimonies or ceremonies created by men to prove that any conceptual being (or thing) physically exists.

One can't prove the non-existence of anything which obviously exists as a concept or one could not define the concept being discussed. Your assertion that since leprechauns and unicorns are not worshiped as gods (or recognized by saints) that they are not equally well defined conceptual beings is rejected.

BTW, can you prove that Zeus (declared as a god by some) does not exist?
 
HonestJoe said:
I'm not the kind of person you're talking about (I'd be called agnostic atheist if I cared for the labels) and have never demanded proof of anything unless it is being presented as justification for some policy or action. I don't believe in any of the various gods proposed throughout history because they're either too poorly defined or specific defined characteristics don't strike me as believable. It could be argued that some commonly claimed characteristics have been disproved (as least as far as that is possible as a general concept), but believers have a tendency to shift the goal posts when any of their specific claims are challenged.

For anyone to seriously try to "disprove" the existence of any god, you would first need to proved a clear and unshifting definition of that god. It would be on your defined characteristics that the claim would be assessed, not really a disproof of God but a disproof of what you believe God is.

Another issue would be assertions about the "supernatural" or "spiritual" aspect attributed to God being used to dismiss any challenge out of hand on the basis that "Humans can't possibly understand" or "God just can because hes all-powerful". If you didn't completely eliminate that aspect, any logical approach would be dead in the water.
Click to expand...

As for defining God, I think we all know how the God of Abraham is defined.

As you are agnostic, you have nothing to prove. But all these other atheist folks have made the definite claim God doesn't exist, so the burden of proof is theirs, and they have failed. 70 posts. 3 hours. No proof.
 
zyzygy said:
And an all-loving god would never give children cancer.
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Do you know the overall picture? Maybe children having cancer which will cause someone to find a cure which will spare billions of cancer cases in the future. Your way is not necessarily God's way, because as a mere mortal, you don't know squat about the overall plan.
 
Crosscheck said:
1.1 million innocent people died at the Auschwitz concentration camp. There is your proof that there is no all loving god.
Click to expand...

The universe has 6 septillion stars that we know of. Probably triple that number in planets, and yet humankind does not have the capability to even travel to the nearest one. So how the hell do you presume to know the overall picture? The overall plan? Maybe those one million killed will cause man to take precautions which will spare billions of lives later. You don't know even .0000001% of the whole picture.
 
Mashmont said:
The universe has 6 septillion stars that we know of. Probably triple that number in planets, and yet humankind does not have the capability to even travel to the nearest one. So how the hell do you presume to know the overall picture? The overall plan? Maybe those one million killed will cause man to take precautions which will spare billions of lives later. You don't know even .0000001% of the whole picture.
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Says the guy who claims he knows
 
notquiteright said:
Nonsense, you move the strike zone from the real discussion. It doesn't matter if a 'God' exists. What matters is does any god gives a rat's rump about those who worship him/her/them. Throughout the history of man we have worshipped a variety of gods, some quite similar to the present day Christian one. What we need to examine does worship of this newer god help/hurt mankind?

So does any god help us?

A child of a faithful couple dies with a painful cancer at age 4. A pregnant mother gunned down in a crossfire. Drug gangs murdering the faithful. The Bible speaks of divine intervention to protect the Jews but today Christians are slaughtered around the world. The Bible speaks of Jesus feeding the masses with so little bread and fish yet today the faithful suffer starvation around the world.

Is there any evidence the faithful fare better than those who ignore the help of any deity? In what way do we determine if the faithful benefit from giving their money to a preacher, help fund missions compared to the government doing the same missions.

Some of us in the Infantry had a somewhat dark saying- "Your reward will come in heaven coz you ain't getting crap here!"

Perhaps the biggest benefit from having faith in a god is enduring the human condition when the less faithful would rebel. Imagine if the faithful Founding fathers had decided to turn the other cheek or meekly render unto Caesar what is Caesar's instead of rebelling.

I see the argument about existence is moot. Is there really such a thing as 'god's will'????

I'd say the evidence shows no evidence of any god helping anyone that doesn't have an equal example of faith not helping.

Does a god exist??? who knows. Does a god help humans.... I'd say no... BELIEF in a caring god does help some to endure life's issues, but millions do so without having faith in any god.

I can't find the quote online but I remember a saying- a god exists as long as their are people who BELIEVE in the god. Gods die when the people stop believing. Look at history of religions, gods do die when people stop believing in them.

Hope you understand the point I'm making... :peace
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I would refer you to my Good Fruits Proof that the God of Abraham exists at the exlusion of all others. It's because no other god has the army of canonized saints; people universally recognized as great humanitarians who lived among the very poor they helped. No other god has that. Proof God Exists: Here is my 11-Step Logical Proof. Enjoy.
 
Crosscheck said:
1.1 million innocent people died at the Auschwitz concentration camp. There is your proof that there is no all loving god.
Click to expand...

And people will use a belief in god to justify that killing.


Disgusting
 
Mashmont said:
Covered in post #45 of this thread.
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Go here and read the OP: What To Do Regarding Your Proof Of God

Follow these steps:

1) create a formal document detailing all your evidence, data, and original work - be sure to capture all of it
2) copyright it, and trademark it so you get full credit
3) submit it to multiple organizations across the planet for thorough peer review, and for unbiased scientific testing of your evidence and data
4) Wait patiently for your Nobel prize, unprecedented fame, and worldwide adoration.
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If your "proof" stands up to unbiased, worldwide peer review, I'll be the first to congratulate you.

I won't be holding my breath.
 
Quag said:
Most??? I think you meant all
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To be fair, I tend to ignore his threads.
So I'd say it's remotely possible there might be one that's not a complete piece of raw sewage.
Maybe.
 
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