Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

[OpportunityCost]

Yeah, whatever. I noticed you ignored the substance to whine about FAKE NEWS!!! Predictable...

No, that was the whine YOU used, I just turned it back on you.

 

[JasperL]

No, that was the whine YOU used, I just turned it back on you.

"The speech by the Ambassador specifically names Zlochevsky and Shokin's failure to cooperate with the UK inquiry. If you don't want to read it, I can't make you but you don't get to pretend that it's not in the speech. If you want I'll cite the entire thing.

And the pressure to fire Shokin had been constant for MONTHS by the time the legislature there finally got around to it. You're attributing cause and effect to the lobbying efforts, and ignoring a very, very, very public campaign by the UK, U.S. State, our Ambassador, IMF, reformers in Ukraine and others to get rid of Shokin."

 

[OpportunityCost]

"The speech by the Ambassador specifically names Zlochevsky and Shokin's failure to cooperate with the UK inquiry. If you don't want to read it, I can't make you but you don't get to pretend that it's not in the speech. If you want I'll cite the entire thing.

And the pressure to fire Shokin had been constant for MONTHS by the time the legislature there finally got around to it. You're attributing cause and effect to the lobbying efforts, and ignoring a very, very, very public campaign by the UK, U.S. State, our Ambassador, IMF, reformers in Ukraine and others to get rid of Shokin."

Public policy and what occurred that is now coming to light may be very different things. Your lack of curiosity seems rooted more in conformation bias than anything else. Yes, yes I get Solomon may not be the most reliable person but, if there is any truth to anything he is saying it changes the entire outlook of the reasons behind what happened.

It should be looked at more closely.

 

[dixon01767]

That's not true. The investigation was in a drawer, like it had been for a couple of years. There was no investigation to spike, and Shokin had a history of NOT prosecuting Burisma and the owner, which is one reason why the UK was on board with firing his corrupt rear end.

LOLOL. You still haven't figured it out yet. You've been fed a bucket of BS and you ate it up so eagerly. We now know from the prosecutor himself and the lobbying firm hired by Burisma that they were in fact being investigated when Biden had the prosecutor fired. You've just heard the talking heads on the media say 1000s of times that there was no investigation and it has become your reality. When they repeat something so much and go to such efforts trying to convince the viewers, that's usually a good indication you are being served a portion of BS.

 

[dixon01767]

The threat was to withhold funding unless a corrupt prosecutor was fired. Quit lying.

That "corrupt" prosecutor says the President told him he was fired because he wouldn't back off the Burisma investigation.

 

[roughdraft274]

That "corrupt" prosecutor says the President told him he was fired because he wouldn't back off the Burisma investigation.

Wow, a corrupt person lied. Who'd a thunk it?

There's no evidence he was investigating Burisma. The ukrainian people and countries all over the world wanted the guy out. To pretend like Biden got rid of him for personal gain is stupid. And right now the guy pushing that story, Rudy, just had 2 associates indicted for illegal activity. That should tell you everything you need to know. If Biden did something wrong, he'd have the DOJ or the FBI looking in to it and he wouldn't need the Ukrainian president making an announcement on TV. This was a bribe for a political favor. Plain and simple.

 

[ludin]

Solomon's bombshell last night was damning for the Bidens, and members of the Obama administration especially the State Department. And isn't it rather ironic that from the whistleblower to the ambassador to Ukraine and Lt Col Vindman in which two have given testimony in Schiff's kangaroo court are all holdovers from the Obama administration that all worked on all things Ukraine and were very much a part of all policies during the Obama years. And the way it is stacking up those policies were corrupt.

As this stuff comes out it keeps looking more and more like a cover up because any actual investigation into what happened in the Ukraine would have outed
these people for their conduct during that time.

It appears that there was indeed some criminal acts going on during the obama administration and this is a huge flag show as Trump found out about it
and doing his due diligence as president wanted an investigation into what exactly happened.

it is also very very clear now that obama/biden committed quid pro quo and should have been impeached.


that was trumps biggest mistake not firing every single person that obama hired.

 

[SCrider]

That "corrupt" prosecutor says the President told him he was fired because he wouldn't back off the Burisma investigation.

Which was not being actively investigated by anyone at the time.......

 

[SCrider]

As this stuff comes out it keeps looking more and more like a cover up because any actual investigation into what happened in the Ukraine would have outed
these people for their conduct during that time.

It appears that there was indeed some criminal acts going on during the obama administration and this is a huge flag show as Trump found out about it
and doing his due diligence as president wanted an investigation into what exactly happened.

it is also very very clear now that obama/biden committed quid pro quo and should have been impeached.


that was trumps biggest mistake not firing every single person that obama hired.

As this stuff comes out? It's all made up BS by RW hacks.

 

[ludin]

Then address the substance of my comments if I'm off base. Should be easy. Neither of you did. Weird.

actually they have and they have destroyed what you have presented. you are wagging the dog on this and is very clear that you are.
you know what you are posting is not true compared to the facts that we have and the facts that are being released at this point.

 

[ludin]

As this stuff comes out? It's all made up BS by RW hacks.

lefist denial fallacies no longer work.
if you can't address the facts presented then you have no argument.

biden admitted to it.

 

[Airyaman]

After all that's gone on in the last month and people are still believing stuff from John Solomon? He was working with Fruity G.s Ukrainianian buddies who are presently under indictment.

A Dozen Questions for John Solomon

Talk about gullible.

 

[SCrider]

lefist denial fallacies no longer work.
if you can't address the facts presented then you have no argument.

biden admitted to it.

You obviously only choose the Alternative facts that Trump spits out. Yes, Biden was following US policy along with the IMF and all our western allies. He did not go off on his own to do it. that is the FACT you so conveniently choose to ignore.

 

[JasperL]

LOLOL. You still haven't figured it out yet. You've been fed a bucket of BS and you ate it up so eagerly. We now know from the prosecutor himself and the lobbying firm hired by Burisma that they were in fact being investigated when Biden had the prosecutor fired. You've just heard the talking heads on the media say 1000s of times that there was no investigation and it has become your reality. When they repeat something so much and go to such efforts trying to convince the viewers, that's usually a good indication you are being served a portion of BS.

You can believe a corrupt thug like Shokin if you want, but I'm not that gullible.

Have you read about the diamond prosecutors? Funny story - tells you a lot about the character of Shokin. I also read Shokin's so-called affidavit. He needs better hacks. Read like something put out by Jacob Wohl, or Jim "Dumbest man on the internet" Hoft, where Biden was the most powerful person on the planet which will come as a great shock to VPs throughout U.S. history!

 

[JasperL]

actually they have and they have destroyed what you have presented. you are wagging the dog on this and is very clear that you are.
you know what you are posting is not true compared to the facts that we have and the facts that are being released at this point.

They haven't and NUHH UHHHH!!!! isn't an argument. If you want to substantively address my arguments, go for it ludin. Should be fun!

Are you saying the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine didn't call out Shokin for NOT prosecuting Hunter's boss in late September 2015? Or that there wasn't an international effort, including reformists in Ukraine, to get Shokin fired long, long before Biden called for it in December? If you think there was an active investigation into Burisma or the owner in December 2015, what's your evidence besides the thug Shokin? Why would Biden move heaven and earth to fire a guy with a long history of NOT prosecuting any of the Ukrainian oligarchs, including Burisma and the owner, and whose own prosecutors were caught, literally, with bags of gems and cash, and lots of Shokin's documents, like copies of his passport and Shokin did nothing? Seems like if you want a guy like that to not do something, the path is clear - pay him a little money to not do what he's already not doing. He has a history of staying bought. Etc.........

 

[danielpalos]

lefist denial fallacies no longer work.
if you can't address the facts presented then you have no argument.

biden admitted to it.

He admitted to "adding the weight of the US" to something already ongoing.

 

[SCrider]

He admitted to "adding the weight of the US" to something already ongoing.

The fact the the entire case for the them is based on Biden's video shows how pathetic Trumps defense of his actions is. These lemmings will go right over the cliff with Trump.

 

[What if...?]

Nothing in that stated that they wanted BURSIMA investigated. And regardless, Bursima had a channel to the State Department in 2016 regardless or what the US Ukraine ambassador said in a Facebook post in 2015, and soon after there name drop, Shokin was fired. Tell me, how did Biden's choice for that position do in their investigation of Bursima? :roll:

Technically it was burisma's owner who was being "investigated", for fjnancial crimes that occurred before biden joined the company. Shokin refused to cooperate with the UK investigation and they had to return almost 24 million to that owner because of Shokin's refusal to provide relevant evidence.

He also refused to even investigate the prosecutors in his own office who were caught with stacks of cash and diamonds. Search: "diamond prosecutors".

This entire narrative doesn't hold water if even a little scrutiny of contemporaneous reporting is done.

It is conspiracy nonsense. Debunked by a simple timeline

 

[dixon01767]

Wow, a corrupt person lied. Who'd a thunk it?

There's no evidence he was investigating Burisma. .

Actually we now know that Burismas CEO's house was raided by the investigators weeks before Biden insisted the prosecutor responsible for that raid be fired. AND we now know that the lobbying firm hired by Burisma was in contact with John Kerry's State department trying to convince them to back off on the insistence of the investigation you claim doesn't exist. .

 

[Captain America]

Everyone knows that when a foreign company hires the US VP's son that they are no longer corrupt.

I wasn't even aware Hunter Biden was running for office. I must have missed the memo. But I guess that all settles it. I will not be voting for Hunter Biden.

 

[What if...?]

I'll stop you there, because it's false.

Here's some ACTUAL reporting by Bloomberg, for example:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?



Here's the U.S. ambassador on Sept 24, 2015 calling out Shokin's failure to prosecute Zlochevsky (Burisma's owner).

"//https://m.facebook.com/usdos.ukraine/posts/10153248488506936"

Note that I had to butcher the IRL so it didn't post a WALL of text of the whole speech, but the link starts at https:

It's weird how the U.S., and UK and IMF and others wanted Shokin fired, and said so in public remarks for NOT investigating Burisma and Zlochevsky, then just two months later, Biden wants him fired to stop an investigation that didn't exist and that the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine had called Shokin out in public for NOT DOING.

This kind of crap is why no one should read Solomon. If he was interested in the truth, he'd at least have to confront and explain these obvious contradictions, but he's a hack pushing someone unknown's agenda, and is willing to promote liars and thugs to do it, like Shokin and others.

They're hanging their hats on independents not being able to read. Not having any critical thinking skills.

They have painted themselves into a corner where narratives that will keep the base riled up run the risk of turning independents who can read off, and narratives that will cause independents to have doubts will likely turn off the base.

And that doesn't include the "trump factor". He is highly likely to wreck their carefully crafted narratives by opening his mouth and saying what they have spend much time trying to convince people he never said, as he has done repeatedly in the past.

 

[roughdraft274]

Actually we now know that Burismas CEO's house was raided by the investigators weeks before Biden insisted the prosecutor responsible for that raid be fired. AND we now know that the lobbying firm hired by Burisma was in contact with John Kerry's State department trying to convince them to back off on the insistence of the investigation you claim doesn't exist. .

Link?

 

[What if...?]

I did read it. In fact he has stated incorrectly what transpired. Here is a Ukraine story that goes into greater detail. Essentially the issue with the UK was trying to prosecute Zlochevsky for corruption when he was employed as Ukraine's Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources when the Ukraine had not reached the point where they were prosecuting Zlochevsky. At that point the PGO was prosecuting the aco****ing firm used by Bursima on a $180 million fraud.

I mean, think for a second what the Democrats are feeding you as a defense: Joe Biden corruption bashing in the Ukraine with claims of quid pro quo with US funds is OK even when it directly involves his son... but Trump corruption bashing in the Ukraine with no clear demand of quid pro quo with US funding is bad because it might involve Joe Biden? If the root of Trump's crime is a possible quid pro quo using US funds then the obvious root of Trump's interest in the Biden case is the clear boasting by Joe Biden of a quid pro quo deal using US funds.



Well sure, by Biden's own words he had been threaten Ukraine with withholding funding for at least three months before they fired him.

I'll ask again: Since you seem to want to accept Biden's claim that he cleaned up the PGO with his threat to withhold funding, and getting his preferred prosecutor in the position, how did that Bursima case turn out? :roll:

You can't have it both ways. You want to claim Biden had, what, justification (?) for railing against Shokin for sitting on the Bursima case when, in the end, Joe's guy dropped the Bursima case? And through ALL of this ongoing years of corruption there is Hunter Biden working for Bursima.



Actually, you are the one dealing in half truths. You are trying to erase half of the story by hand waving and presenting one facebook post by the US ambassador to Ukraine as if it undoes what Biden admitted to doing.

Of course the rest of the "corruption" trump wanted "investigated" involved a search for the physical DNC server at the Cloudstrike(sic) home office in Ukraine, owned by a rich Ukrainian.

Which is difficult to support considering the physical server was never in Ukraine, and Crowdstrike is a California company owned by Americans, one of whom was born in Ukraine.

 

[What if...?]

That "corrupt" prosecutor says the President told him he was fired because he wouldn't back off the Burisma investigation.

And the prisons are full of innocent men.

Ask any of them. They'll tell you.

 

[JasperL]

The Ukrainian onion is unpeeling, layer by layer - and the sulfurous fumes are getting thick. Whatever one thinks of alleged Trump strong-arming to investigate Biden, there is NO DOUBT that anyone rushing to defend Biden is also on shaky ground.

You are correct. The "prima facia" strong suspicion of skull-doggery is rooted in what should be obvious to knee-jerk Biden defenders - his side's cover stories don't add up.

Tracing its history ought to be sufficient.

Biden's son, and partner join the Board of Bursima.

Bursima has a "reputation" of being corrupt. Skokin, the Prosecutor, becomes a target of several in the West, including Obama and Biden, for his failure to pursue Bursima. Just everyone knows Bursima has been "corrupt" and Skokin is protecting them, they claim. That is unacceptable and they demand a greater effort.

Biden get's Skokin fired, to please Biden and the Obama Administration.

But EVER SO ODDLY, after Biden's "good guy" is appointed, the Biden interest in Bursima wanes further, and the investigations are dropped entirely . IE in the logic of critics, it is the NEW guy protects Bursima and that is just fine with Biden.

Yep Biden is happy, his son is happy, the "corrupt" Bursima is happy.

So JasperL has to at least confess this Biden cover story is transparent nonsense. JasperL can crank the siren about the UK, bullhorn aspirations about John Solomon's motivations, and throw up all the story detail chaff to obscure screen as he like's BUT one can't get away from the contradiction. EITHER Bursima and its oligarch owner were never corrupt and Skokin should have never been fired by a threat of a "quid pro quo" OR Bursima was corrupt but Biden had another purpose in mind.

It wasn't just Burisma. Shokin didn't prosecute ANYONE with any power. NO ONE WAS PROSECUTED when he was PG. When his own prosecutors were caught, literally, with bags of gems and piles of cash, Shokin DID NOTHING. They were clearly tied to him because they had copies of Shokin's passport and other documents related directly to Shokin and NOTHING HAPPENED.

In one high-profile example, known in Ukraine as the case of the “diamond prosecutors,” troves of diamonds, cash and other valuables were found in the homes of two of Mr. Shokin’s subordinates, suggesting that they had been taking bribes.

But the case became bogged down, with no reasons given. When a department in Mr. Shokin’s office tried to bring it to trial, the prosecutors were fired or resigned. The perpetrators seemed destined to get off with claims that the stones were not worth very much.

Huh, imagine that! Shokin was quite the go getter against fraud. No wonder Biden wanted him fired, because with that kind of dedication to enforcing the rule of law, Hunter and his boss could have been next on his list! OH NOOOO!!! says the oligarchs!! who joined all the others such as those who bribed his deputies who were NOT-PROSECUTED by Shokin. Not a single one. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch. Perfect record of 0.00%.

The not-prosecution of Burisma and the owner were all part of a consistent, corrupt pattern by Shokin to open all kinds of prosecutions into the oligarchs, then bury them, reassign them, fire people who were actually trying to do their job, he put members of the anti-corruption task force under investigation. This is all extensively documented, and all you have to do is want to find it to confirm all this.

So if Bursima was corrupt, then why did Joe Biden laud the replacement who also did nothing and, effectively, did what Skokin was accused of doing - you know, the guy Biden hated? There are only two possibilities: 1) Skokin's investigation actually was threatening to Bursima and Hunter so Joe stopped it for self-serving reasons or

You'll have to explain why essentially the entire international community, and the reformers in Ukraine, bought into Joe Biden's corrupt scheme to protect his son, when Shokin was in fact a white knight, dedicated to cleaning up the corrupt government of Ukraine and bring past powerful crooks to justice, which for some reason he never did - not a single high profile prosecution.

2) Biden was a thoughtless buffoon who was more interested in showing Obama he was a tough guy and could push around Ukraine law enforcement (via threats) than in accomplishing anything moral.

Jasper's choice, no?

False choices for $1,000, Alex! Seriously, that's pathetic.

If you'd like to address any of the evidence I've presented, please do so.