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HS Fines Students $250 For Being Late/Truant

Yup......let's just screw over more poor people who usually have a myriad of family problems.


Good work Oklahoma! :roll:
 
This is a train wreck waiting to happen.
 
Cardinal said:
Immoral beyond belief. The medium income of a Muskogee household is $36,322 a year, which is $22,717 below the national household median. This is exploiting a poor community with no strong political voice. "Sorry you're late kid. You owe $250. Oh, you can't afford books and school lunch anymore? Womp womp."
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Over the top rhetoric- Oklahoma is a lower cost of living state. You have to have multiple infractions before facing a fine. Most 'poor' kids get free lunches paid for by the state so there's that. Pay for books??? This is primary education, the taxpayer buys the books (course many say Clinton is the current President)

Now let's play with stats-

Muskogee has a 10% lower cost of living than the Okie average, 21% lower than the rest of the country. The unadjusted difference you wave around is 38% so we are talking about a difference not that spectacular... :roll:

Only one county in Oklahoma is above the national per capita income. :shock:

Muskogee County ranks 50th out of 77 counties- not great, but not without a political voice in OKC.

Context, we seem to ignore that to advance some agenda... :peace
 
RetiredUSN said:
Yup......let's just screw over more poor people who usually have a myriad of family problems. Good work Oklahoma! :roll:
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This is the LEAST of our problems, a very red state determined to out Trump Trump, wreck our once robust tax system to push a idiotic conservative fiscal theory that has failed at any level it is used.

Many of the 'myriad' comes from reduced funding of the services the poor need the most but conservatives consider socialism...

Good work Oklahoma... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Over the top rhetoric- Oklahoma is a lower cost of living state. You have to have multiple infractions before facing a fine. Most 'poor' kids get free lunches paid for by the state so there's that. Pay for books??? This is primary education, the taxpayer buys the books (course many say Clinton is the current President)

Now let's play with stats-

Muskogee has a 10% lower cost of living than the Okie average, 21% lower than the rest of the country. The unadjusted difference you wave around is 38% so we are talking about a difference not that spectacular... :roll:

Only one county in Oklahoma is above the national per capita income. :shock:

Muskogee County ranks 50th out of 77 counties- not great, but not without a political voice in OKC.

Context, we seem to ignore that to advance some agenda... :peace
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What is the practical point of your post? Do you think these $250 fines are going to help poor families or harm them? And if you believe it's the former, what's your evidence for it?
 
notquiteright said:
Our state has a rather poor track record funding schools, red baiting the 'leftist' teachers, and wanting to fund 'alternative' schools. Our education system is falling apart and those in OKC blame everyone but themselves... :peace
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I don't know if you agree but I seem to think Will Rogers HS is the canary in the coal mine.
If that place goes to the wolves, I see it as condition red.
 
Cardinal said:
What is the practical point of your post? Do you think these $250 fines are going to help poor families or harm them? And if you believe it's the former, what's your evidence for it?
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First practical point was to show how little you know about the cost of living in Oklahoma and your use of useless stats... ;)

While you wish to frame this about poor families the real issue is getting ALL families attention about attendance. Are you saying poor families are incapable of raising kids responsible enough to engrain their children with good citizenship??? How demeaning of you...

Are you saying if suspension or detention doesn't work the school system should just shrug and walk away? Like any other social class hitting the pocket book gets your attention or should poor families not have to pay ANY fines for bad behavior??? No speeding tickets, don't need to worry about paying trash or water bills???

Let's see the 'harm' before attacking it. Your whine seems a tad premature... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
First practical point was to show how little you know about the cost of living in Oklahoma and your use of useless stats... ;)

While you wish to frame this about poor families the real issue is getting ALL families attention about attendance. Are you saying poor families are incapable of raising kids responsible enough to engrain their children with good citizenship??? How demeaning of you...

Are you saying if suspension or detention doesn't work the school system should just shrug and walk away? Like any other social class hitting the pocket book gets your attention or should poor families not have to pay ANY fines for bad behavior??? No speeding tickets, don't need to worry about paying trash or water bills???

Let's see the 'harm' before attacking it. Your whine seems a tad premature... :peace
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I'm asking if you think these $250 fines will help poor families or hurt them, and if the former, what evidence you have for it.
 
Cardinal said:
I'm asking if you think these $250 fines will help poor families or hurt them, and if the former, what evidence you have for it.
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I'm saying would you want to exempt 'poor' families from the same standards and penalties as everyone else??? This isn't 'targeting' poor families- not reducing free lunches or after school programs. This is an across the board standard.

I ask again, what else would you exempt poor families from??? :peace
 
notquiteright said:
I'm saying would you want to exempt 'poor' families from the same standards and penalties as everyone else??? This isn't 'targeting' poor families- not reducing free lunches or after school programs. This is an across the board standard.

I ask again, what else would you exempt poor families from??? :peace
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*Sigh.* I know you're not a trump supporter, but on this particular topic it's certainly like talking to one. I don't have the powers of persuasion to make you give a **** about how poor families may be impacted by this decision if you don't give a **** to start with.
 
notquiteright said:
I'm saying would you want to exempt 'poor' families from the same standards and penalties as everyone else??? This isn't 'targeting' poor families- not reducing free lunches or after school programs. This is an across the board standard.

I ask again, what else would you exempt poor families from??? :peace
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What happens when a single 5' 2" 110 lb. mom who works two jobs trying to keep a roof over some street punk kid who's 6' 190 and doesn't give a **** about what mom or the school system thinks?

Do you support taking her to jail if she can't pay the fines?
 
notquiteright said:
Oh it is a state wide issue, you can't swing a dead cat in Oklahoma and not hit a dozen canaries... sad but true... :peace
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WRHS is special to me because of folks like Gaillard Sartain, David Gates, and of course Leon Russell.
They're all WRHS graduates.
 
Cardinal said:
*Sigh.* I know you're not a trump supporter, but on this particular topic it's certainly like talking to one. I don't have the powers of persuasion to make you give a **** about how poor families may be impacted by this decision if you don't give a **** to start with.
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Oh no Sir, You seem to think if I don't agree with you I can't be a Progressive, at least not your opinion of what a Progressive should be.

I am not targeting programs for the poor, I'm not for ending free lunches for children, or CHIP healthcare.

I'm saying the penalty is an across the board one, would you exempt the poor from paying?

If detention or suspension doesn't work do you abandon these kids, say they are lost because their families don't give a crap? What would you do if you could be in charge?

What would you do???? :peace
 
RetiredUSN said:
What happens when a single 5' 2" 110 lb. mom who works two jobs trying to keep a roof over some street punk kid who's 6' 190 and doesn't give a **** about what mom or the school system thinks? Do you support taking her to jail if she can't pay the fines?
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There are ways to deal with a street punk,(well there were until the state cut juvenile facilities) I'd say she has far more problems with the punk other than attendance and there comes a time where she has to decide if keeping him under her roof is the best thing for her and the rest of the family. Sad but true there are some train wreck families but how many are we talking about??? :confused:

While we can find a MINORITY of poor families that fit your very 'special' situation are you going to say because of one case we should ignore ALL cases????

You seem willing to use one bad apple to stop a program for ALL students... would you end welfare because a few abuse the system? End CHIP because a few doctors file phony bills???

Not all failures to pay fines result in jail time- if so, libraries would be better funded... :peace
 
.I got a beating at home if and when I screwed up at school....different times I suppose.
 
notquiteright said:
First practical point was to show how little you know about the cost of living in Oklahoma and your use of useless stats... ;)

While you wish to frame this about poor families the real issue is getting ALL families attention about attendance. Are you saying poor families are incapable of raising kids responsible enough to engrain their children with good citizenship??? How demeaning of you...

Are you saying if suspension or detention doesn't work the school system should just shrug and walk away? Like any other social class hitting the pocket book gets your attention or should poor families not have to pay ANY fines for bad behavior??? No speeding tickets, don't need to worry about paying trash or water bills???

Let's see the 'harm' before attacking it. Your whine seems a tad premature... :peace
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I don't think it's demeaning to point out that having less money can have an impact on youth and families alike and can make it harder to perform to some expectations. Further, it's not demeaning to point out that piling on difficulties for families is very unlikely to cause a growth in positive outcomes.

On the contrary, if there's anything demeaning, it's the legislation.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Right

and when said kid calls mom or dad saying I am going to be late for school, and get a $250 fine, what do you think they will do? Call the school and say the kid is sick
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Fine with me. As long as the kid and the parents are on the same page. Maybe the parents will start holding their little turds accountable? Especially when sick days start getting high and the school stops accepting that as an excuse. Or the little mongrel gets held back. I don’t have much sympathy for them. Being excessively late will cost them if they decide to become an adult and have a job. Isn’t that what school is supposed to prepare you for? Work? You will lose more the $250 if you can’t get your ass in gear for work.
 
Cardinal said:
What is the practical point of your post? Do you think these $250 fines are going to help poor families or harm them? And if you believe it's the former, what's your evidence for it?
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It's really, really hard to turnaround student absenteeism. It's even harder to turn it around by *adding* pentalties, while doing next to nothing to revamp the public systems to keep these kids in school or get them to return.

One adolescent youth I worked with had chronic absenteeism, impacted by their mental health. The natural family supports had eroded in their effectiveness and capability. The family was impoverished. All of these things collided and made it much more difficult for that student to physically get on a bus and walk inside the school campus. Then even if you could get them in the building, there were partial day absences.

We all had to work hard to get things stabilized enough for that youth to get to class. We didn't absolve them of the responsibility, but we had to continue to work at that realm with them. We couldn't be hands-off at all. We also had to ramp up contacts between all of the systems that touched this young person.

I had to offer my phone and say day, night, early morning, you call me. I didn't care if I had to coach them to get on that bus every day. Then, because of the somewhat unreliable information sharing from that youth, I had to seek information from other parties, confirm or deny information that the youth had given me.

After a while, we turned that chronically absent student into a regular (even though not 100%) attendee. They graduated.

That outcome wasn't a given. We were really risking delayed graduation and drop-out every semester. If we didn't have positive things for that youth and family along the way, we weren't going to get a happy ending.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
 
notquiteright said:
I'm saying would you want to exempt 'poor' families from the same standards and penalties as everyone else??? This isn't 'targeting' poor families- not reducing free lunches or after school programs. This is an across the board standard.

I ask again, what else would you exempt poor families from??? :peace
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How will fining the marginal students improve attendance? Will it not more likely drive those students away?

I can see for the average students it might be an incentive to get to class on time but I can't see it helping the trouble students
 
Fiddytree said:
I don't think it's demeaning to point out that having less money can have an impact on youth and families alike and can make it harder to perform to some expectations. Further, it's not demeaning to point out that piling on difficulties for families is very unlikely to cause a growth in positive outcomes. On the contrary, if there's anything demeaning, it's the legislation.
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This isn't a poll tax, or a book tax, it is only for those who have 4 infractions in 4 weeks, I say again- four (4) infractions in four (4) weeks. We have no idea if that means a minute late or 10 minutes. For all the right wing moans about spineless educators, this is a last resort in a district that has extremely poor attendance....

But what part of the 'less money' people will be affected??? You all act like every poor family will be fined. Many poor families manage to produce good citizens- are you all saying they can't??? You think across the 'poor' board there won't be a wake-up call for most parents???

When our daughter was in public school we were broke, broke, broke... my daughter and I gathered native pecans along the creek to have any sort of Christmas... somehow we managed to get her on the school bus and keep good attendance...

Let's see how many poor families end up out on the street because their 6' 190 lb street punk refuses to go to school before we bemoan a lack of positive outcomes... :peace
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
How will fining the marginal students improve attendance? Will it not more likely drive those students away? I can see for the average students it might be an incentive to get to class on time but I can't see it helping the trouble students
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Might get the parents to start parenting a bit more, not looking for Ozzie and Harriet (might be a bit too old a reference for many of you), just get the child out to the bus on time. How many 'troubled' students are we talking about and do any of us think the 'troubled' students aren't in trouble elsewhere- the 6' street punks who refuse to listen to their hard working single parent mom and such.

No one is thinking this cures the entire problem but it should get the culture of attendance back, that is a goal we used to consider important.... :peace
 
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