How will history judge Donald Trump as President ?

[RaleBulgarian]

Is he still doing so from beyond the grave?
We cannot assume much of anything about anything in a different reality. Reality is what it is.

Fred carried Donald on his back into the 90’s, bailing him out from multiple disastrous business choices. Realistically, it is reasonable to believe that had Fred not saved his son, Donald would have been broke long ago. Could Donald possibly have started over on his own and be where is now? Maybe yes, maybe no. Touting Trump’s so-called expertise in the business world as a resume filler is dishonest without looking at his entire history.

His trade war is addressing things that should have been addressed since the Clinton years forward. The theft of intellectual property is a recognized crime across the world outside of China.
Trump put the economy on a very strong footing and used that perch as the point to start the campaign to correct.

I applaud Trump’s desire/efforts to correct the failings of last administrations in taking China to task for all of it's underhanded tactics and outright theft. I question his approach though. So far it hasn’t helped. Time will tell, and he’ll own the results either way.

The government shut down is the result of Trump pursuing the goals of legal activity and reduced crime combined with Pelosi's hatred of Trump.
Trump is reaching for something positive and Pelosi is opposing due to the most negative of motivations: hate. This is pure and simple.

Partisan hyperbole.

As it happens, most involved business decisions, like plant shut downs, are made and implemented over the course of years.
I was given a behind the scenes look at two such moves. One was in the 80's and the other was at about the time of Trump's election.
Both were eerily similar behind the scenes and the public announcements were postponed from the actual decisions by years. Not all things are as they appear.

Somebody who ostensibly knows as much as Trump does about business ought to have known better than to make promises he knew he wouldn’t keep then, right?

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Somebody who ostensibly knows as much as Trump does about business ought to have known better than to make promises he knew he wouldn’t keep then, right?

No, because BS is Trump's MO.

 

[JackA]

You need to check your gauge of measure.

He is deeply informed. He is also very instinctive and intuitive. the missiles are no longer falling into the Sea of Japan. Russia hasn't invaded anyone recently. i just filled my tank for $1.91/gallon. These are all good things: Impossible before Trump.

He is thoughtful. However, he thinks in terms of accomplishment, not political expediency. As an example, his critics are all wondering what is the way to end the shutdown. He is wondering what is the way to impede the flow of drugs, stop illegal immigration and reduce crime.

He is empathetic. Look at his family. Look at the employees of his companies. You can bet if the majority of his 35,000 employees felt he was a jerk, they'd have been on TV. His kids are accomplished and adoring. Even his ex-wives seem to like him. This is not the description of a bad guy.

He is brave. He has been under attack since he came down the Escalator. Every day, 24 hours each day and non-stop. This is bravery in the face of attack.

He is measured. Given what he faced to accomplish what he's accomplished, he has done everything needed to be considered measured. Deliberate, calculated, regularly recurrent and in proportion to what is faced. He has been the dictionary definition of measured in his presidency.

1. Instead of deeply informed he is deeply uninformed. He doesn’t read. He spurns briefings. He boasts of making decisions with his “gut”.

2. Instead of thoughtful he is thoughtless, uncivil and rude. He thrives on mockery.

3. Instead of empathetic he is selfish and driven by greed. His “charity” recently shutdown in New York as a fraud used as his personal piggy bank marks the depth of his empathy.

4. Instead of brave he cowardly hides with lies behind the truth, day after day after day.

5. Instead of measured, he is rash, petulant, impulsive, prone as a result to going too far, or in the wrong direction as in his abrupt decision on Syria or his idiotic obsequities with the leader of North Korea. What other President has had his advisers seen as “the adults in the room”?

 

[molten_dragon]

"Trump debuts in last place in political scientists’ “Presidential Greatness Rankings”


"...a group of more than 170 scholars from the American Political Science Association released a survey today (on Presidents’ Day, the national holiday celebrating those who have held the office), which aims to calculate the “greatness” of every US president. Trump debuted in last place..."


Of the 44 men who have served as President of the USA, Trump is rated as the worst.

Worse than Grant.
Worse than Harding and Harrison.


He is a man unfit to be President.



https://qz.com/1210855/presidents-d...l-scientists-presidential-greatness-rankings/

Unless some sort of major crisis happens and Trump handles it really well, history is going to judge him poorly.

 

[Fearandloathing]

That survey is a year old. It has been discussed a great deal already.

For me the most notable thing about it is that even the Republican scholars put in him the bottom five.

Which should be alarming if not terrifying for supporters of the "slavery president". Before this article the worst was that he paid hush money to sex trade workers and had a very blind tailor.

Now, he has imposed slavery conditions on federal employees, has insulted women for the 25th time and has been revealed to have accomplished NOTHING in his first two years except start unnecessary trade wars with America's allies.

I suggest your post and its attempt to minimize the horrific incompetence of the man is a lame attempt at diversion, finding a very silly and vacuous post; let's get ****ing real for once in America....Trump's popularity is NOT going to rise again. In fact by the time the details come out and we see how much of a Putin puppet he is, his "like" ratings will vanish.

He is a stupid and cruel man whose every action, every word, gesture and eye movement is for one and only one purpose - him.

Asshole actually claims he knows what furloughed workers are going through...as IF he ever had to use food stamps.

He's the worst human being in America...forget the title.

 

[markjs]

1. Instead of deeply informed he is deeply uninformed. He doesn’t read. He spurns briefings. He boasts of making decisions with his “gut”.

2. Instead of thoughtful he is thoughtless, uncivil and rude. He thrives on mockery.

3. Instead of empathetic he is selfish and driven by greed. His “charity” recently shutdown in New York as a fraud used as his personal piggy bank marks the depth of his empathy.

4. Instead of brave he cowardly hides with lies behind the truth, day after day after day.

5. Instead of measured, he is rash, petulant, impulsive, prone as a result to going too far, or in the wrong direction as in his abrupt decision on Syria or his idiotic obsequities with the leader of North Korea. What other President has had his advisers seen as “the adults in the room”?

Makes him MAGA don't it? I mean he's AWESOME Every WINGER'S WET DREAM!:roll:

Perfect GOP candidate! IMPECCABLE qualifications!

 

[Moderate Right]

"Trump debuts in last place in political scientists’ “Presidential Greatness Rankings”


"...a group of more than 170 scholars from the American Political Science Association released a survey today (on Presidents’ Day, the national holiday celebrating those who have held the office), which aims to calculate the “greatness” of every US president. Trump debuted in last place..."


Of the 44 men who have served as President of the USA, Trump is rated as the worst.

Worse than Grant.
Worse than Harding and Harrison.


He is a man unfit to be President.



https://qz.com/1210855/presidents-d...l-scientists-presidential-greatness-rankings/

Ummmmm. Trump is only half way through his first term and this is already one year old. Post this same question in about 25 years.

 

[markjs]

Ummmmm. Trump is only half way through his first term and this is already one year old. Post this same question in about 25 years.

In that year he has been very busy with his shovel!

 

[Amelia]

Which should be alarming if not terrifying for supporters of the "slavery president". Before this article the worst was that he paid hush money to sex trade workers and had a very blind tailor.

Now, he has imposed slavery conditions on federal employees, has insulted women for the 25th time and has been revealed to have accomplished NOTHING in his first two years except start unnecessary trade wars with America's allies.

I suggest your post and its attempt to minimize the horrific incompetence of the man is a lame attempt at diversion, finding a very silly and vacuous post; let's get ****ing real for once in America....Trump's popularity is NOT going to rise again. In fact by the time the details come out and we see how much of a Putin puppet he is, his "like" ratings will vanish.

He is a stupid and cruel man whose every action, every word, gesture and eye movement is for one and only one purpose - him.

Asshole actually claims he knows what furloughed workers are going through...as IF he ever had to use food stamps.

He's the worst human being in America...forget the title.

My attempt to minimize the horrific incompetence of Trump?


Get bent.

 

[Puigb]

2 Things:

1. I'm not even convinced Trump is worse than his Republican successor. Granted, it's hard to compare a president who's been in office two years to one who completed 8 years, but still. I think Trump is bloody awful in every aspect, but that doesn't make Dubya's presidency any better.

2. I think history will look back at the 2015/2016 GOP primaries more than anything. With the general election, you had two VERY unpopular candidates facing off, so one was bound to win. Trump managed to squeak out a razor thin victory, thanks to thousands of votes in 3 blue states, and thanks to previous Obama voters not coming out for Clinton like they did for Obama twice. But the GOP primaries? People will look back and wonder how a 3 time registered Democrat, and long time friend and Clinton supporter, managed to beat 16 other GOP candidates, many of them life long "conservatives", and seasoned politicians. They will wonder how Trump managed to convince a large portion of the GOP base to ignore his long past as a Democrat and Clinton supporter, and to embrace him as a "conservative hero". The 2015/2016 GOP primaries will be analyzed for many years to come, IMO.

 

[Moderate Right]

In that year he has been very busy with his shovel!

History doesn't judge anyone until many years later. Therefore, the entire thread is nothing but liberal ejaculate.

 

[AGENT J]

"Trump debuts in last place in political scientists’ “Presidential Greatness Rankings”


"...a group of more than 170 scholars from the American Political Science Association released a survey today (on Presidents’ Day, the national holiday celebrating those who have held the office), which aims to calculate the “greatness” of every US president. Trump debuted in last place..."


Of the 44 men who have served as President of the USA, Trump is rated as the worst.

Worse than Grant.
Worse than Harding and Harrison.


He is a man unfit to be President.



https://qz.com/1210855/presidents-d...l-scientists-presidential-greatness-rankings/

well technically its still to early to tell.....
IMO he seems a lock to go down as worst president of my life time but hopefully I got another 15 terms in me and that leaves a lot of room for worse lol

Honestly though few things would make me happier if he went down as one of the greats... i want that for ALL presidents :shrug:

 

[JustHanging]

"Trump debuts in last place in political scientists’ “Presidential Greatness Rankings”


"...a group of more than 170 scholars from the American Political Science Association released a survey today (on Presidents’ Day, the national holiday celebrating those who have held the office), which aims to calculate the “greatness” of every US president. Trump debuted in last place..."


Of the 44 men who have served as President of the USA, Trump is rated as the worst.

Worse than Grant.
Worse than Harding and Harrison.


He is a man unfit to be President.



https://qz.com/1210855/presidents-d...l-scientists-presidential-greatness-rankings/

This:

Or this:

 

[Idiometer]

Your link does not list any of the people who compiled the list or even the criteria they used to grade them.

The only person they name is the president and she is part graduate of Berkley one of the most liberal colleges in the country.

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If that's the case, then you don't know who they are, either. Do you admit that you called them progressives out of contrariness, and not from any knowledge on your part? Just picking a fight, perhaps?

 

[trouble13]

If that's the case, then you don't know who they are, either. Do you admit that you called them progressives out of contrariness, and not from any knowledge on your part? Just picking a fight, perhaps?

I fair enough I'm making an assumption based on stereotypes. I will own that.

Do you concede that the list is meaningless without knowing the answers to the questions I raised.

I would be very interested in knowing why Obama is 8th and Reagan is 9th as well as all the other rankings.

Just because some people with pedigrees make a list it does not mean its accurate.

If it were my list I would put Washington, Adam's, and Jefferson ahead of Lincoln. That's my opinion of course. I certainly see fair arguments for where they have Lincoln. I dont know what their arguments are though because they dont list them. I might change my mind and agree with them if I knew what they were.



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[Puigb]

I fair enough I'm making an assumption based on stereotypes. I will own that.

Do you concede that the list is meaningless without knowing the answers to the questions I raised.

I would be very interested in knowing why Obama is 8th and Reagan is 9th as well as all the other rankings.

Just because some people with pedigrees make a list it does not mean its accurate.

If it were my list I would put Washington, Adam's, and Jefferson ahead of Lincoln. That's my opinion of course. I certainly see fair arguments for where they have Lincoln. I dont know what their arguments are though because they dont list them. I might change my mind and agree with them if I knew what they were.



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You're right, that is way too high for Reagan.

 

[Idiometer]

So Trump is now involved in Watergate?

Wait! What?

C'mon, man!

I said no such thing. You asked what the link was. The fiascos are similar. The endless coverups, the constant changing of their "story," the number of his cabinet heads and other White House staff that are under investigation or have been indicted, etc.

How young are you? Those who refuse to study history deserve to repeat it.

:sigh:

 

[Idiometer]

False accusations and media support of the Democrat attack machine will do that.

Q: You know what they call a guy who is attacked by the Democrat Party slime slingers?

A: Justice Kavanaugh

My God! Whenever I watch a Democrat mouth piece being interviewed, I feel like I need to take a shower.

No, a crook who tends to hire other crooks will do that.

Obama may have been an amateur, but none of his top people were indicted.

 

[Rich2018]

Worse than Nixon, and that's a really low bar, IMHO.

Nixon had the makings of a good president.

He ended the war in Vietnam

He thawed relations with China


But with Nixon it is always Watergate.

 

[Casca XV]

Higher than Obama, Lower than Lincoln.


Looking back at Lincoln the similarities in how the Press and the Democrats (who really have not changed much) treated each President is amazing. In most rankings Lincoln is the very top rank or one of presidents. As time passes partisan feelings fade and the objective record of accomplishments is how they are judged.

Obama has a terrible objective record. So far President Trump has the best in modern US history.

 

[Idiometer]

His net worth seems to reveal your answer for you.

How many previous presidents refused their salary while in office?

How do we know his net worth? He lies about everything. Everything he says and does is for the sake of his ego. In my opinion, the reason he refuses to release his tax returns to we the people is not because he's afraid of showing himself to be crooked, but because then we would know what a flim flam man he is. Billionaire, my ass.

 

[Casca XV]

Nixon had the makings of a good president.

He ended the war in Vietnam

He thawed relations with China


But with Nixon it is always Watergate.

And considering Obama is guilty of the same as the underlying crime as was committed at the Watergate hotel, the next year will be interesting.

The Mueller delaying action will be ending soon.

 

[Idiometer]

I fair enough I'm making an assumption based on stereotypes. I will own that.

Do you concede that the list is meaningless without knowing the answers to the questions I raised.

I would be very interested in knowing why Obama is 8th and Reagan is 9th as well as all the other rankings.

Just because some people with pedigrees make a list it does not mean its accurate.

If it were my list I would put Washington, Adam's, and Jefferson ahead of Lincoln. That's my opinion of course. I certainly see fair arguments for where they have Lincoln. I dont know what their arguments are though because they dont list them. I might change my mind and agree with them if I knew what they were.



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The list isn't meaningless, it is the studied opinions of presidential scholars and historians. Opinions being the key word here. If you really want to know why Obama was rated higher than Reagan, I suggest you visit their web site.

I agree with you about Lincoln.

 

[trouble13]

The list isn't meaningless, it is the studied opinions of presidential scholars and historians. Opinions being the key word here. If you really want to know why Obama was rated higher than Reagan, I suggest you visit their web site.

I agree with you about Lincoln.

I would if they provided a link to that data but they dont, which again reinforces my point. You do not know what your defending. Ftr I dont carte that obsma is ranked higher than Reagan I just want to know what their reasoning is.

They asked this same group of people who they would add to mt Rushmore and over to 2/3rds voted for FDR. So an overwhelming majority of that group voted for the president who is thought of as the father of American progressivism.

If you want to give this list stock, be my guest. It appears to be heavily bias to the left imo. I might be wrong but without any explination offered to why they are ranked the way the are it looks that way to me.



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[Idiometer]

Nixon had the makings of a good president.

He ended the war in Vietnam

He thawed relations with China


But with Nixon it is always Watergate.

That's great. However, before he extricated us from that fiasco, he interfered in the peace process that Johnson had initiated. He couldn't let Johnson get credit for ending the war, that wouldn't get him elected. Hubert Humphrey would have won just by being a Democrat like Johnson.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...-nixon-interfered-1968-peace-talks-180961627/

In my opinion, what Nixon did was treason and he should have been executed for it. One of the results of his interference was the Tet Offensive, in which two of my high school classmates were killed at a place called Khe Sanh.

Nixon can rot.