How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

[iguanaman]

Bernie is not a commie. That is a hyperbole. All social democracies in Europe are capitalist. Maybe in his younger years Bernie was a communist but age and experience tend to mellow down the extremes. I think he knows very well that he will be pushing for social policies and better safety net and more governmental assistance for the needy, but he won't be able to transform America into a truly socialist country. For one thing, he has already declared in no equivocal terms that he has changed his mind about nationalizing the means of production.

America compared to Scandinavian countries is an extreme-right place. He will bring us (hopefully, if Congress allows it) a bit closer to what they do in advanced capitalist Western social democracies in Europe, and the Europeans will then define us as a bit more to the center instead of extreme-right, LOL.

He will be painted as a commie and looks the part too. Bernie needs to withdraw his name for the good of the nation.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Nah, he's a wild eyed socialist who praised Communist Russia. I'll vote 3rd party or write in someone before I vote for either Bernie or Trump.

How long ago was he praising communist Russia? When as a young man he was getting married. Come on. 40 years of public service went by, since that time. Seriously? Is this all you have against Bernie???

 

[GreatNews2night]

What party will Bernie unify? Dems want someone who can beat Trump and everyone knows it is not Bernie. He needs to withdraw or be responsible for Trumps reelection. That is the sad truth and you should admit it. Bernie was responsible for the Dems loss in 2016 and now he is going to do it again. What a great man.:lol: He will go down in history as the worst spoiler ever.

Everyone knows it? Who? Because all polls as of now show Bernie beating Trump. And it's not even that. It's a turnout thing. Bernie is the only one who can produce a sufficient blue wave turnout to beat Trump. The others are bland and lack energy.

Yes, 2016 was bad, but then, Bernie wasn't the front runner. This time he is.

Look, I understand that like me, you want to beat Trump. A couple of months ago I used to feel like you about Bernie. But I changed my mind, and with good reason. I invite you to look closer to how dynamic this race is, and to how things have changed, and to how Bernie now has positioned himself as our best bet.

Then, join us, and let's beat Trump together.

 

[Craig234]

He will be painted as a commie and looks the part too. Bernie needs to withdraw his name for the good of the nation.

Some of the biggest enemies of America, people like this, fighting against the president we need.

 

[Linc]

Bloomberg is splitting the not Bernie vote. We can't have a candidate that has 30% support by the party and is not even a Democrat. That is not how you defeat an incumbent President. It is a disaster of our own making.

Today saw trump continue to play Sanders’s supporters by saying how ‘unfairly’ Bernie’s been treated. Bernie is the only ‘candidate’ trump NEVER criticizes.

Bernie’s cult will find out how trumpco really feels about him starting on Thursday night July 16th. It looks like I’ll be 70-yo when trump leaves office in 2025.

 

[Linc]

Some of the biggest enemies of America, people like this, fighting against the president we need.

Calling a poster an enemy of America is typical of Bernie’s digital brown shirts, Craig 234.

 

[iguanaman]

Some of the biggest enemies of America, people like this, fighting against the president we need.

We do not need 4 more years of Trump. That is what you want?

 

[GreatNews2night]

Calling a poster an enemy of America is typical of Bernie’s digital brown shirts, Craig 234.

Yes, I don't like that either.

We are all Americans who like politics and want the best for our country. We differ in what we believe is best; that's all.

 

[iguanaman]

Everyone knows it? Who? Because all polls as of now show Bernie beating Trump. And it's not even that. It's a turnout thing. Bernie is the only one who can produce a sufficient blue wave turnout to beat Trump. The others are bland and lack energy.

Yes, 2016 was bad, but then, Bernie wasn't the front runner. This time he is.

Look, I understand that like me, you want to beat Trump. A couple of months ago I used to feel like you about Bernie. But I changed my mind, and with good reason. I invite you to look closer to how dynamic this race is, and to how things have changed, and to how Bernie now has positioned himself as our best bet.

Then, join us, and let's beat Trump together.

I'll vote for anyone running against Trump, too bad Bernie's supporters don't feel the same. He will divide the party and his communist history will destroy his chances in the election. There is a reason Trump does not criticize Sanders and it is because he knows he will lose. He will lose all the independents by threatening to throw them off their employer HC too.

 

[iguanaman]

Yes, I don't like that either.

We are all Americans who like politics and want the best for our country. We differ in what we believe is best; that's all.

Don't fool yourself, Bernie is poison in a General Election. He will end up hated as the spoiler who destroyed the country. We are not in a depression and people do not want huge change they want sanity restored. Many who dislike Trump will vote for him anyway if Bernie is the candidate.

 

[Surrealistik]

Yes, I don't like that either.

We are all Americans who like politics and want the best for our country. We differ in what we believe is best; that's all.

Nor do I like it when delusional never-Bernie zealots like Linc repeatedly call me a Trump supporter and a fake Democrat.

 

[iguanaman]

Today saw trump continue to play Sanders’s supporters by saying how ‘unfairly’ Bernie’s been treated. Bernie is the only ‘candidate’ trump NEVER criticizes.

Bernie’s cult will find out how trumpco really feels about him starting on Thursday night July 16th. It looks like I’ll be 70-yo when trump leaves office in 2025.

Not to mention Putin who will scour his Soviet archives for dirt on Sanders. There is a reason that Trump wants to face Bernie and I am still hoping we won't find that out.

 

[Surrealistik]

Not to mention Putin who will scour his Soviet archives for dirt on Sanders. There is a reason that Trump wants to face Bernie and I am still hoping we won't find that out.

Trump's advisors think Sanders will be 'easy', but Trump himself disagrees and is concerned: https://theintercept.com/2020/01/29/trump-sanders-2020-election/

Overall, if there's anything Trump has despite his litany of notable deficits, it's political instincts.

Also this 'scouring the Soviet archive' notion is absurd.

 

[Linc]

You're just an ant-Democratic Party Bernie hate not interested in the truth. trump was polling 31% in 2016 at the New Hampshire primary. Huh, guess that can win - and if the top poller can't win, how is someone less than that going to win? Don't like the 30%? Support Bernie and make it higher. And Bernie is a Democrat. Are YOU a Democrat? Are YOU in the Democratic Party Senate leadership like Bernie?

The last thing Bernie regressives are is Democrats. Bernie is not a Democrat, never has been a Democrat, and never will be a Democrat.

His time in DC has been completely impotent in regards to legislation. Bernie and his cutthroat cowardly staff like Jeff Weaver have permanently divided the 2020 primary season.

 

[Craig234]

I'll vote for anyone running against Trump, too bad Bernie's supporters don't feel the same.

Lies. Bernie supporters will vote for the Democratic nominee, which is what Bernie also supports. But you are quiet about Hillary's PUMAs.

He will divide the party and his communist history will destroy his chances in the election.

Lies. The party is already divided, Bernie's not dividing it, he's representing the better side of the divide; he has no 'communist history'.

There is a reason Trump does not criticize Sanders and it is because he knows he will lose.

"Sanders recently equated the City of Baltimore to a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY," Trump tweeted, referring to remarks the senator made in 2015 after touring the city following riots over the death of Freddie Gray, an African American man who died while in police custody.

"Based on that statement, I assume that Bernie must now be labeled a Racist, just as a Republican would if he used that term and standard!" Trump added.

Sanders shot back, saying “Trump’s lies never end.”

“While I have been fighting to lift the people of Baltimore and elsewhere out of poverty with good paying jobs, housing and health care, he has been attacking workers and the poor,” he tweeted.

Trump had earlier described the city as “disgusting” and “rodent infested,” an assessment widely denounced as racist by Democrats, including Sanders himself.

The president denied that these remarks were racist. Trump maintained Tuesday that, despite concerns over race-baiting, he said that his attacks are not part of a larger political strategy.

"There’s no strategy. I have no strategy. There’s zero strategy," Trump told reporters Tuesday at the White House.

Sanders spokeswoman: Trump's attacks show 'no leadership' | TheHill

He will lose all the independents by threatening to throw them off their employer HC too.

Ya, the only Democratic candidate who has run as an independent for Congress, who got two independent voters for everyone one for Hillary, he'll lose the independents, guaranteeing and expanding not only their healthcare, but everyone's.

I'll repeat - people like you are among the worst enemies of the country, fighting the best candidate.

You want another 2016 with a corporatist who loses.

 

[Linc]

Trump's advisors think Sanders will be 'easy', but Trump himself disagrees and is concerned: https://theintercept.com/2020/01/29/trump-sanders-2020-election/

Overall, if there's anything Trump has despite his litany of notable deficits, it's political instincts.

Also this 'scouring the Soviet archive' notion is absurd.

Taking trump’s word on anything regarding Sanders shows one of three things: 1) just what a bunch of naive neophytes Sanders’s supporters are; 2) just how dishonest Sanders’s supporters are; 3) that they’re really trump supporters.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

I'm back from early voting. My state is a Super Tuesday one and early voting is open; I have a day off from work today so I went ahead and got there, and cast my ballot.

After months agonizing about this, and despite not really being a Sanders fan, I voted for Sanders after all.

See, it's because my ultimate goal is not to select candidate X or candidate Y in the Dem primaries. My ultimate goal is to beat Trump in November.

I came to believe that Sanders is the candidate who can generate the most enthusiasm, the most turnout, and is maybe the only one who can be competitive (as long as he picks a good veep) and beat Trump (although it won't be easy - but I think all the others are even worse equipped to beat Trump). I also warmed up to his Medicare For All proposal, despite being against it in the past, and since health care is a big focus for me, it was a big motivator for my vote: maybe it is time after all for single payer in America, and no president will be as enthusiastic about it as Bernie Sanders, so, this may be the one decent shot at doing it (although I remain very skeptical that it can be done, and worried about unintended consequences and turmoil - but I guess we can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs).

[/COLOR]I also stopped worrying about moderates being alienated by Sanders and sitting out. You know, first of all, this is probably an exaggerated concern. The only people among moderates and independents who may come over to the Dem side are the anti-Trump folks, and those are almost guaranteed to prefer Sanders to Trump even if they don't particularly like Sanders. The moderates and independents who are for Trump won't come around and vote for any Dem, anyway. They are lost causes already.

Besides, Bernie's most radical ideas that spook moderates are not even likely to pass Congress, even if both houses get a Democratic supermajority, which is very unlikely anyway. If the Dems don't get both chambers and with a comfortable majority, then Sanders ideas won't pass anyway. It's not like America will turn "communist" (and I know, he is not communist) with widespread nationalizations and a Great Depression kind of Wall Street collapse if Sanders wins. Life will continue. Capitalism will survive.

OK, so, Go Bernie!

I just hope that if he is not nominated, his followers will still vote Dem, as long as it is in a fair process.

Poster said, "See, it's because my ultimate goal is not to select candidate X or candidate Y in the Dem primaries. My ultimate goal is to beat Trump in November." Unless poster is a Trump fan that is insane.

Three of the latest national polls show Bernie ahead by 12,11, and 12 points. Are the Democrats foolish enough to nominate an Independent socialist as their candidate? Bernie is not a Democrat. He is seeking the Democratic nomination while fighting the Democratic leadership.

That leads one to believe a vote for Bernie is a vote for rebellion, a vote for a revolution.

The vast majority of Americans are in no mood for rebellion. That was tried in 2016 when Trump, the unconventional newcomer, challenged party leadership. The result was a disaster. Americans are not looking for revolution. They simply want to rid themselves of Trump.

That won't happen. 63 million Americans voted for Trump. They haven't gone away, and they certainly won't vote for a socialist. So, if the Democrats are foolish enough to nominate Bernie, they are already 63 million votes in the hole.

Then there are conservative Independents like me. As of December 2019, Gallup polling found that 28% of Americans identified as Democrat, 28% identified as Republican, and 41% as Independent. If Bernie is nominated, the Democrats can kiss the Independent vote away, too.

Then there the Democrats. There are a huge number of Democrats who are moderate or conservative. The Democratic Party can kiss those votes away as well.

Who does support Bernie? The 18 to 30 crowd, most without a college education, and the worst voting block in the country.

Nominating Bernie insures another four years of Trump. Good Lord, that can't happen!

Oh, yeah, the poster was a Trump fan, alright.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Lies. Bernie supporters will vote for the Democratic nominee, which is what Bernie also supports. But you are quiet about Hillary's PUMAs.



Lies. The party is already divided, Bernie's not dividing it, he's representing the better side of the divide; he has no 'communist history'.





Sanders spokeswoman: Trump's attacks show 'no leadership' | TheHill



Ya, the only Democratic candidate who has run as an independent for Congress, who got two independent voters for everyone one for Hillary, he'll lose the independents, guaranteeing and expanding not only their healthcare, but everyone's.

I'll repeat - people like you are among the worst enemies of the country, fighting the best candidate.

You want another 2016 with a corporatist who loses.

Now I am starting to think that an open convention may be what’s necessary to force the Democratic Party to address the divide within it’s ranks

 

[Surrealistik]

Taking trump’s word on anything regarding Sanders shows one of three things: 1) just what a bunch of naive neophytes Sanders’s supporters are; 2) just how dishonest Sanders’s supporters are; 3) that they’re really trump supporters.

These are leaks, not public sentiments, and are consistent with his views regarding 2016 where he was secretly recorded as saying that Sanders would have been a tougher opponent, and Sanders was the one VP choice he truly dreaded.

 

[Craig234]

Now I am starting to think that an open convention may be what’s necessary to force the Democratic Party to address the divide within it’s ranks

An open convention won't 'address the divide'. Only numbers are going to do that, and the party may or may not have a 'cultural shift' toward unity, either improving to become progressive, or becoming more corrupt and corporatist as for recent decades, or just remaining divided.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

I don't know what the future holds, but I know that a lot of people are dramatically underestimating the power of generating hope.

Politically, one doesn't shoot for the moon when the opposition controls the White House and the Senate. One waits until one's party controls the White House and Congress, then works toward needed changes.

Bernie and Lizzy have it ass backwards.

Which is why neither will become President.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

An open convention won't 'address the divide'. Only numbers are going to do that, and the party may or may not have a 'cultural shift' toward unity, either improving to become progressive, or becoming more corrupt and corporatist as for recent decades, or just remaining divided.

Well the convention will be the place where the party chooses its nominee, and Sanders has to be prepared to convince the party delegates that he has the best shot at winning. Otherwise, it’s anyone’s nomination

 

[Craig234]

Three of the latest national polls show Bernie ahead by 12,11, and 12 points. Are the Democrats foolish enough to nominate an Independent socialist as their candidate? Bernie is not a Democrat. He is seeking the Democratic nomination while fighting the Democratic leadership.

Bernie is more of a Democrat than most 'Democrats' in Congress. He's not a "socialist"; that's a lie, and you know it but tell it anyway. The Democratic Party is about the people, not the officials; the officials have betrayed most of the people allying with big money, and Bernie legitimately wants to change the leadership to align with the Democratic Party citizens. You are the enemy of them.

That leads one to believe a vote for Bernie is a vote for rebellion, a vote for a revolution.

A vote for Bernie is a vote for a political revolution where the people gain power over the big money interests and plutocracy. Which side are you on?

The vast majority of Americans are in no mood for rebellion. That was tried in 2016 when Trump, the unconventional newcomer, challenged party leadership.

Seriously, you are equating Bernie and trump?

You can't get much more dishonest than that.

The American people have a choice - continue plutocracy, or fight it by picking Bernie.

 

[Craig234]

Well the convention will be the place where the party chooses its nominee, and Sanders has to be prepared to convince the party delegates that he has the best shot at winning. Otherwise, it’s anyone’s nomination

Best chance of winning isn't what the officials are concerned with. Their corrupt loyalties and who benefits them is what they're concerned with. They'd prefer a corporatist like Hillary who loses over a progressive populist like Bernie who wins, and costs their wealthy donors money with his policies that benefit the public.

 

[Craig234]

Politically, one doesn't shoot for the moon when the opposition controls the White House and the Senate. One waits until one's party controls the White House and Congress, then works toward needed changes.

Bernie and Lizzy have it ass backwards.

Which is why neither will become President.

Right, we have to continue the policies of plutocracy, we can't oppose them. That'll get people out to vote. More plutocracy, vote plutocrat Democrats instead of plutocrat Republicans! You had your shot with that idea in 2016. You lost.