How much have you saved for retirement, not counting SS?

[Kreton]

We're all old, the young ones have gone off to reddit, lol. That and asking such a question on the internet is akin to asking guys to report their height and penis size accurately.

And hand size. That is important.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

I think it is amazing that people can post 600 times a day and still make millions.

Actually, once you have over a certain amount of capital, you can live comfortably on the interest indefinitely.

 

[Quag]

Not sure how to calculate this as my money is kinda spread over a bunch of things, mutual funds, pension plan,stocks, bonds, real estate etc etc..
But barring unforseen events I will have more $$$ retired than working

 

[antiquity]

Does ENRON ring a bell to you? How about Qwest?

Don't hold your company stock, the negative (risk factor) is too high as you will never know when your faithful leadership will stray... and you are left with nothing.

I remember the 70's bust, my company stock sold at the time for about $13 a share, today its over $338 a share. I never brought any when it was low and when I retired I took all my money out of the company 401K and invested in both the stock market and bonds. As I said in a previous post I am well off in retirement and own nothing but monthly utilities. My credit rating is near the top so if I wanted to buy something on credit or pay cash I would have no problem...I don't but I could.

 

[Neomalthusian]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/13/her...have-nothing-at-all-saved-for-retirement.html

It's a private poll so don't feel called out, I'm curious how reflective these reports are.

The people on an internet message board might not be representative (might tend to be older/retired folks). The corresponding age is important too.

The other thing is some people think of their housing equity as partial retirement, assuming they will sell/downsize when the kids leave the nest. That's our case. We're early-to-mid 30s and have housing equity north of $300k, with other retirement closer to $200k, and we don't plan to maintain a 3-bedroom in a good school zone when it's just the two of us. But usually you don't count housing equity as retirement savings, because you still need to live somewhere at age 50+.

 

[antiquity]

I think it is amazing that people can post 600 times a day and still make millions.

I don't know about millions or posting numerous times a day but my money is making money and I do nothing but watch it grow.

 

[Kreton]

I don't know about millions or posting numerous times a day but my money is making money and I do nothing but watch it grow.

You and all of DP. It is amazing.

 

[Kreton]

I don't think 14 people are millionaires on here. Just saying...

14 lol. We are up to 64% who would be considered rich. E-dentities are fun.

 

[Lutherf]

14 lol. We are up to 64% who would be considered rich. E-dentities are fun.

You'd be surprised. Lots of people have a 401(k) or something at work. If they defer $5k into that account at 25 and continue to contribute $5k every year after that they'll have over $600k (assuming a 5% rate of return) by the time they hit 65 and that's without factoring in an employer contribution. Many people contribute a lot more than $5k too. It's a matter of time, rate of return and not messing with the damned money until you have to. A couple who never make more than a modest income each can end up with a million dollars in retirement pretty easily as long as they're disciplined about saving.

The problem most people have is that their "need" outweighs their "discipline" until they're staring retirement in the face.

 

[lefty louie]

72 now, so will look back to age 65.....
2 houses, paid for, 1 in AZ and 1 in Utah, 3 cars (not new but new enough for us). We have lived debt free since age 55.

Retirement INCOME is the most important factor, ask yourself if you have enough income to house you and your spouse in the kind of health care facility that Alzheimers's disease requires.
Without that, your kids will have to sell your house for you, and hope you don't outlive that amount..

Alzheimer's is a drain for sure, we went through 300K+ on my mom, but once it was gone she stayed right where she was, getting the same care only sharing a room.

 

[Winchester]

For those that have the bulk of their retirement savings in a 401(k) or similar plan and live in the US I would HIGHLY recommend establishing an additional savings plan outside the qualified plan. What I see a lot of people run into is that they hit retirement and have all their savings in a plan that produces taxable income. This means that when they want to but a new car or put a roof on their house it has to come from taxable funds. If, for example, you need $20k net for a purchase you may need to pull $25k gross to cover the tax. A ROTH is a great way to avoid that problem but contributions are pretty limited. Portfolio income, such as stocks, bonds and mutual funds, affords you a good way to have readily available cash assets that you can generally pull from at tax advantaged rates.

Make sure that your retirement isn't tied to one thing and that you have plans set up for guaranteed income to cover your essentials. The biggest change when it comes to retirement is that you stop focusing on income and start focusing on cash flow. Pay off your house! Pay off your cars. There is no benefit to having a mortgage in retirement. I don't care if you're $20k in PITI payments over the year saves you $2k in tax. It's the $1,700/mo payment to keep a roof over your head when you're on a fixed income that concerns me.

Exactly, no flexibility. I see that all too often all the retirement income is in a taxable retirement account. Had a retired client one year tell me he bought a chevy avalanche with cash, took 44ish out of his ira to pay for it. Well he was below the point where SS starts becoming taxable and the IRA withdrawal made the full 85% of his SS taxed. IIRC it cost him $17,000 in additional state/federal tax.

As far as Roth, one can sock away more than one thinks in those accounts, given time. I'm rather pissed I just found out a couple of weeks ago my wife's employer offers a 403(b) with a Roth option and she never knew about it before. At any rate it opens up $24,500 more we can put in a Roth. Her net paycheck is now $120/month, lol.

 

[Kreton]

You'd be surprised. Lots of people have a 401(k) or something at work. If they defer $5k into that account at 25 and continue to contribute $5k every year after that they'll have over $600k (assuming a 5% rate of return) by the time they hit 65 and that's without factoring in an employer contribution. Many people contribute a lot more than $5k too. It's a matter of time, rate of return and not messing with the damned money until you have to. A couple who never make more than a modest income each can end up with a million dollars in retirement pretty easily as long as they're disciplined about saving.

The problem most people have is that their "need" outweighs their "discipline" until they're staring retirement in the face.

I know how 401K's and investing work. I think you are missing my point. I don't believe for a second that over 60% of DP are all financial geniuses who have 6 figures in retirement. Over half of Americans have less than $1000 in savings, but over 60% of political forum posters have over 400 times that amount.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

I know how 401K's and investing work. I think you are missing my point. I don't believe for a second that over 60% of DP are all financial geniuses who have 6 figures in retirement. Over half of Americans have less than $1000 in savings, but over 60% of political forum posters have over 400 times that amount.

Whether you believe you can do it or not, I guarantee you will be right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cpwill]

For those that have the bulk of their retirement savings in a 401(k) or similar plan and live in the US I would HIGHLY recommend establishing an additional savings plan outside the qualified plan. What I see a lot of people run into is that they hit retirement and have all their savings in a plan that produces taxable income. This means that when they want to but a new car or put a roof on their house it has to come from taxable funds. If, for example, you need $20k net for a purchase you may need to pull $25k gross to cover the tax. A ROTH is a great way to avoid that problem but contributions are pretty limited. Portfolio income, such as stocks, bonds and mutual funds, affords you a good way to have readily available cash assets that you can generally pull from at tax advantaged rates.

Make sure that your retirement isn't tied to one thing and that you have plans set up for guaranteed income to cover your essentials. The biggest change when it comes to retirement is that you stop focusing on income and start focusing on cash flow. Pay off your house! Pay off your cars. There is no benefit to having a mortgage in retirement. I don't care if you're $20k in PITI payments over the year saves you $2k in tax. It's the $1,700/mo payment to keep a roof over your head when you're on a fixed income that concerns me.

Tempted to create extra accounts and risk banning, just to like this post multiple times.

 

[SMTA]

I find it interesting how well off the DP forums are compared to the national average.

It's the internet - everyone is well off.

 

[post]

You'd be surprised. Lots of people have a 401(k) or something at work. If they defer $5k into that account at 25 and continue to contribute $5k every year after that they'll have over $600k (assuming a 5% rate of return) by the time they hit 65 and that's without factoring in an employer contribution. Many people contribute a lot more than $5k too. It's a matter of time, rate of return and not messing with the damned money until you have to. A couple who never make more than a modest income each can end up with a million dollars in retirement pretty easily as long as they're disciplined about saving.

The problem most people have is that their "need" outweighs their "discipline" until they're staring retirement in the face.

I am sorry, I don't think anywhere near $5k annually is the norm deferred by under 45s....not if they reside other than with their parents,
or in a cardboard box down by the river. If they have kid(s) purchase a mortgaged home, and or own a car, it is definitely not the norm to
put away $5k pre-tax income annually. I doubt even $2,500 is an under age 55 norm.

Consider home purchase down payment savings challenge, burden of student loan repayment, the cost of the average first-time home purchase,
the cost of the average new car purchase, the cost of making up diminishing employer paid portion of health insurance, daycare costs of marrieds with
children, the costs of raising children, including saving for college.

My educated guess is that the ability to do what you describe is restricted to 12 to 15 percent of workers who do not live with parents or in a box
and even when the math suggests sheltering $5k annually from taxes in a retirement investment vehicle is possible, competing goals or living demands
lower the number of work for a living earners doing that to 10 percent, at best. I hope I am wrong.

https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-average-salary-by-age
The Average Salary by Age
Amelia Josephson MAR 22, 2018
..The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) tracks Americans’ earnings by several demographic factors, including age. According to BLS data, the average salary...

...The Average Salary 25-34
For Americans age 25-34, the mean salary is $758 per week, $39,416 per year. That’s a big jump from the average salary for 20-24-year-olds. Conventional wisdom holds that one’s 20s and 30s are the times when one gets raises. It’s common for earnings to plateau beginning in one’s 40s.

The Average Salary 35-44
The average salary of 35-to-44-year olds is $950 per week, $49,400 per year. However, that’s a number that conceals considerable variation by gender. For example, male 35-to-44-year-olds earn a mean salary of $1,019 per week while women in the same age bracket earn an average of $859 per week....

20 percent down payment burden for a couple purchasing average first time home is $20k each, including closing costs.

Average first home price
Of those who did manage to buy, the median age was 32; median salary, $72,000; and median home price, $182,500. (Among all buyers, the median age was 44; median income was $88,500; and median home price was $227,700.)Apr 21, 2017
Who's Buying a First Home? - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/21/realestate/first-time-home-buyers-statistics.html

...and a couple needs two of these, every five years, as a conservatively priced option, vs. buying new...

Used-Car Prices Reached All-Time High in 2016 | Edmunds
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/auto-industry/used-car-prices-reached-all-time-high-in-2016.html
Feb 14, 2017 - Comments (0) Used-car transaction prices reached a record high in 2016, thanks to an influx of late-model vehicles and the continued popularity of trucks and SUVs, according to the Edmunds 2016 Used Vehicle Market Report. The average price of a used car was $19,189, a 3.4 percent increase from 2015.

 

[Kreton]

Whether you believe you can do it or not, I guarantee you will be right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[cpwill]

14 lol. We are up to 64% who would be considered rich. E-dentities are fun.

:shrug: If you consider $400K+ to be "rich", it's not that terribly complicated.

1. Live on less than you make
2. Invest the difference
3. Over a couple of decades

Automatic drafts are easy to set up if you have budgeting problems, and then you never even see it until the annual "you have this many" letter comes in the mail.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

I don't understand what you mean.

Here is a sig I saw on another forum that I believe is related to his point, ponder it a bit.

================

What you allow, is what will continue.

 

[chuckiechan]

:shrug: If you consider $400K+ to be "rich", it's not that terribly complicated.

1. Live on less than you make
2. Invest the difference
3. Over a couple of decades

Automatic drafts are easy to set up if you have budgeting problems, and then you never even see it until the annual "you have this many" letter comes in the mail.

400K in California isn’t all that much. But I own my house free and clear.

I got lucky when the economy crashed my partners and I found a willing buyer who paid just below top dollar for the whole ****teriee, contracts, trucks, employees and tools included.

 

[post]

I know how 401K's and investing work. I think you are missing my point. I don't believe for a second that over 60% of DP are all financial geniuses who have 6 figures in retirement. Over half of Americans have less than $1000 in savings, but over 60% of political forum posters have over 400 times that amount.

I hate BS and am even more skeptical of these claims than you seem to be.

https://www.epi.org/publication/retirement-in-america/#charts
....
4.

While average (mean) retirement account savings grew somewhat between 2001 and 2013, this was due to the aging of the large baby boomer cohort, as older families have had more time to accumulate savings. The results are mixed when age is taken into account. Workers in their late 40s and early 50s are slightly behind their counterparts in 2001, while other age groups are slightly ahead. Rather than stagnation, we should be seeing rising 401(k) and IRA account balances at all ages to offset declines in defined-benefit pension coverage and Social Security cuts.

 

[cpwill]

I am sorry, I don't think anywhere near $5k annually is the norm deferred by under 45s....not if they reside other than with their parents,
or in a cardboard box down by the river. If they have kid(s) purchase a mortgaged home, and or own a car, it is definitely not the norm to
put away $5k pre-tax income annually. I doubt even $2,500 is an under age 55 norm.

Consider home purchase down payment savings challenge, burden of student loan repayment, the cost of the average first-time home purchase,
the cost of the average new car purchase, the cost of making up diminishing employer paid portion of health insurance, daycare costs of marrieds with
children, the costs of raising children, including saving for college.

My educated guess is that the ability to do what you describe is restricted to 12 to 15 percent of workers who do not live with parents or in a box
and even when the math suggests sheltering $5k annually from taxes in a retirement investment vehicle is possible, competing goals or living demands
lower the number of work for a living earners doing that to 10 percent, at best. I hope I am wrong.

20 percent down payment burden for a couple purchasing average first time home is $20k each, including closing costs.

...and a couple needs two of these, every five years, as a conservatively priced option, vs. buying new...

I think you are incorrect on the plausibility of the task. I have done it, and seen and helped plenty of others do it as well.

I think you are likely closer to the mark on the percentages of people who do it, however. The boomers were atrocious savers, and their kids haven't (yet) learned the lesson from their failure.

 

[cpwill]

400K in California isn’t all that much. But I own my house free and clear.

I got lucky when the economy crashed my partners and I found a willing buyer who paid just below top dollar for the whole ****teriee, contracts, trucks, employees and tools included.

Excellent point - location for this discussion really matters. You can live pretty well in lots of areas for relatively little, and live fairly crappy for quite a lot in others.

 

[Lutherf]

I am sorry, I don't think anywhere near $5k annually is the norm deferred by under 45s....not if they reside other than with their parents,
or in a cardboard box down by the river. If they have kid(s) purchase a mortgaged home, and or own a car, it is definitely not the norm to
put away $5k pre-tax income annually. I doubt even $2,500 is an under age 55 norm.

Consider home purchase down payment savings challenge, burden of student loan repayment, the cost of the average first-time home purchase,
the cost of the average new car purchase, the cost of making up diminishing employer paid portion of health insurance, daycare costs of marrieds with
children, the costs of raising children, including saving for college.

My educated guess is that the ability to do what you describe is restricted to 12 to 15 percent of workers who do not live with parents or in a box
and even when the math suggests sheltering $5k annually from taxes in a retirement investment vehicle is possible, competing goals or living demands
lower the number of work for a living earners doing that to 10 percent, at best. I hope I am wrong.



20 percent down payment burden for a couple purchasing average first time home is $20k each, including closing costs.


...and a couple needs two of these, every five years, as a conservatively priced option, vs. buying new...

I don't know that deferring $5k/yr is normal for workers under 45 either but I see a whole lot of it and manage to convert a few more to my madness every year. Bottom line, nobody says you've got to be normal. If you want a solid retirement you'll find a way to make it work. If you want a new car and a new house you'll find a way to make THAT work. The choice is yours.

 

[Winchester]

I am sorry, I don't think anywhere near $5k annually is the norm deferred by under 45s....not if they reside other than with their parents,
or in a cardboard box down by the river. If they have kid(s) purchase a mortgaged home, and or own a car, it is definitely not the norm to
put away $5k pre-tax income annually. I doubt even $2,500 is an under age 55 norm.

Consider home purchase down payment savings challenge, burden of student loan repayment, the cost of the average first-time home purchase,
the cost of the average new car purchase, the cost of making up diminishing employer paid portion of health insurance, daycare costs of marrieds with
children, the costs of raising children, including saving for college.

My educated guess is that the ability to do what you describe is restricted to 12 to 15 percent of workers who do not live with parents or in a box
and even when the math suggests sheltering $5k annually from taxes in a retirement investment vehicle is possible, competing goals or living demands
lower the number of work for a living earners doing that to 10 percent, at best. I hope I am wrong.



20 percent down payment burden for a couple purchasing average first time home is $20k each, including closing costs.


...and a couple needs two of these, every five years, as a conservatively priced option, vs. buying new...

It's not the norm because most people are ignorant about financial matters. I know it's the internet but would it surprise you if I told you that 2 of my kids aged 27 & 25 not only defer the amount necessary to max their employer's 401(k) match they've maxed out their Roth IRA ($5,500/year) every year since they've been employed AND managed to save up enough to put 20% down on houses in the areas they live. Granted they have no student loans partly because they're smart kid and got good scholarships and partly because mom and dad prioritized educating their children over toys and a big house.