How Much Credit Does Trump Deserve for the Strong Economy?

[Conservative]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/u...-to-fifth-highest-ever-cbo-reports-2018-09-11

widening budget deficit

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296



Spend spend spend, but it was only bad when Obama did it, right?

lol

Partisans.

Why don't you check the accuracy of CBO reporting of deficits? Did they project Obama having four straight years of trillion dollar deficits? No And as far as the budget is concerned you haven't even looked at it so you don't have a clue

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Ikari]

That is certainly your opinion that Trump is spending more than Obama so now post the data to support that claim

Are you ever going to address the debt service that is part of the 2018 deficit and how that is related to Trump spending? It does seem that you want to ignore the past and blame everything on either Bush or Trump never accepting responsibility for being wrong

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I blame Obama too, it's not like the different faces of the Republocrat Oligarchy are all that different.

 

[Ikari]

Why don't you check the accuracy of CBO reporting of deficits? Did they project Obama having four straight years of trillion dollar deficits? No And as far as the budget is concerned you haven't even looked at it so you don't have a clue

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

So you're saying that the CBO may be underestimating the deficit gap in Trump's proposed budget? Maybe, we'll see how much he has to spend when he has to start more Trade War bail-outs.

 

[Conservative]

So you're saying that the CBO may be underestimating the deficit gap in Trump's proposed budget? Maybe, we'll see how much he has to spend when he has to start more Trade War bail-outs.

No what I'm saying is you buy CBO numbers or projections when they suit your agenda and ignore the actual results when they come out. CBO does not project economic growth economic activity productivity which right now is booming.

Then as usual you never answer a direct question how is Trump responsible for the 500 billion dollar Debt Service in fiscal year 2018 deficit

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Conservative]

I blame Obama too, it's not like the different faces of the Republocrat Oligarchy are all that different.

No what you are ignoring is that Trump is pissing off the establishment Congressional leaders of both parties and I'm getting exactly the results I voted for

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Ikari]

No what I'm saying is you buy CBO numbers or projections when they suit your agenda and ignore the actual results when they come out. CBO does not project economic growth economic activity productivity which right now is booming.

Then as usual you never answer a direct question how is Trump responsible for the 500 billion dollar Debt Service in fiscal year 2018 deficit

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

When did I "ignore actual results"? Just because it Obama spent a whole lot, doesn't mean Trump isn't. Just because the CBO didn't get the magnitude of Obama's spending correct doesn't mean it missed the direction. So even for the next proposed budget, we see a widening in the deficit, even though the GOP controls Congress and White House, can't get their spending in order.

How long are you going to blame Obama for Trump's continued spending? It's probably Obama's fault that Trump spends so much time golfing too.

 

[Ikari]

No what you are ignoring is that Trump is pissing off the establishment Congressional leaders of both parties and I'm getting exactly the results I voted for

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Higher deficit, allies alienated, Trade War already requiring billions in bail-out money, an administration in perpetual investigation, revolving door administration, former employees under indictment, making plea deals, pleading guilty, etc. That's what you wanted? Interesting.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

I never gave credit or blame for the economy to Clinton, Bush or Obama. I see no reason to star now. I just don’t think the President wields that much influence on the long term movement of the economy.

 

[Conservative]

When did I "ignore actual results"? Just because it Obama spent a whole lot, doesn't mean Trump isn't. Just because the CBO didn't get the magnitude of Obama's spending correct doesn't mean it missed the direction. So even for the next proposed budget, we see a widening in the deficit, even though the GOP controls Congress and White House, can't get their spending in order.

How long are you going to blame Obama for Trump's continued spending? It's probably Obama's fault that Trump spends so much time golfing too.

Trump spending hasn't come close to Obama per actual budget numbers which of course you have yet to post. Obama never generated the taxpayers promised in his 842 billion stimulus which was all spending with strings but leftists show they never have understood tax cuts, rebates aren't tax cuts, payroll tax cuts cut SS and Medicare which is currently trillions in debt.

I will continue to blame Obama until you recognize that 500 billion of the deficit this year is debt service and the fact that Trump proposed a lesser budget for 2019 than 2018

 

[Conservative]

Higher deficit, allies alienated, Trade War already requiring billions in bail-out money, an administration in perpetual investigation, revolving door administration, former employees under indictment, making plea deals, pleading guilty, etc. That's what you wanted? Interesting.

Yep, and not data or results to support your claims or even understanding of the deficits. That defines you and the rest of the radical left

 

[Ikari]

Trump spending hasn't come close to Obama per actual budget numbers which of course you have yet to post. Obama never generated the taxpayers promised in his 842 billion stimulus which was all spending with strings but leftists show they never have understood tax cuts, rebates aren't tax cuts, payroll tax cuts cut SS and Medicare which is currently trillions in debt.

I will continue to blame Obama until you recognize that 500 billion of the deficit this year is debt service and the fact that Trump proposed a lesser budget for 2019 than 2018

Obama had kept Bush's tax cuts, and we have a ton of debt from many things, not just social programs. But you keep wanting to say "blah blah blah Obama". How has everything been calculated in the past. Were we talking of Bush's debt service on Obama's 2010 numbers?

This is merely something you've latched onto to spin a narrative. But everything we've seen thus far is widening deficit gaps under a Republican controlled Congress and White House, bigger debt and faster rise in debt, and an economy that has mostly just been trudging on as it was before Trump took office. That's all you got. Can't even recognize reality, try to deny the Great Recession was a real thing. So here we go, denial of reality, spin about numbers, and just some stubborn narrative to try to make it seem like we aren't spending more, that our deficit isn't growing faster now.

lol

I suppose denial defines the radical right rather well.

 

[Conservative]

Obama had kept Bush's tax cuts, and we have a ton of debt from many things, not just social programs. But you keep wanting to say "blah blah blah Obama". How has everything been calculated in the past. Were we talking of Bush's debt service on Obama's 2010 numbers?

This is merely something you've latched onto to spin a narrative. But everything we've seen thus far is widening deficit gaps under a Republican controlled Congress and White House, bigger debt and faster rise in debt, and an economy that has mostly just been trudging on as it was before Trump took office. That's all you got. Can't even recognize reality, try to deny the Great Recession was a real thing. So here we go, denial of reality, spin about numbers, and just some stubborn narrative to try to make it seem like we aren't spending more, that our deficit isn't growing faster now.

lol

I suppose denial defines the radical right rather well.

You mean the 2003 tax cuts that outlived their usefulness? Now of course expenses never rise do they so always blame tax cuts, when are you going to post the treasury data supporting your claim that FIT cuts actual reduced FIT revenue? Still waiting, what is the problem?

Such hatred of keeping more of what you earn so hopefully you are sending your tax cut back to the Federal bureaucrats so they can waste it and add to the 21 trillion dollar debt they created. We always want to give more money to people who abuse the tax dollars now don't we?

 

[Ikari]

You mean the 2003 tax cuts that outlived their usefulness? Now of course expenses never rise do they so always blame tax cuts, when are you going to post the treasury data supporting your claim that FIT cuts actual reduced FIT revenue? Still waiting, what is the problem?

Such hatred of keeping more of what you earn so hopefully you are sending your tax cut back to the Federal bureaucrats so they can waste it and add to the 21 trillion dollar debt they created. We always want to give more money to people who abuse the tax dollars now don't we?

Tax cuts are fine, but they're not always going to generate more revenue and if you cut taxes, you have to cut spending. Not sure either side has ever done that.

But this is just another spin, another deflection to get away from the fact that deficits are still rising, under Trumps plan the deficit is widening. Spend, spend, spend just like Obama (except Trump can't even try to blame the spending on the Great Recession, he got an economy that was improving), but it's ok because the D changed to an R, so no worries here.

The only thing you have is partisan propaganda. The only thing you can keep doing is try to deflect away from your last argument. But the numbers are clear, even the numbers you posted. The economy was doing better under Obama, the rate of improvement is pretty well unchanged under Trump. We have widening deficits, and projections that Trump can hit Obama's deficit in 4 years instead of 8. But so long as the R is an R, we'll just get excuses from you. The minute the R goes to a D, any concern over appropriately accounting for debt service or any of that will go out the window.

The economy is improving, as it was under Obama. Trump is increasing our deficit faster than Obama. Deal with it.

 

[Conservative]

Tax cuts are fine, but they're not always going to generate more revenue and if you cut taxes, you have to cut spending. Not sure either side has ever done that.

But this is just another spin, another deflection to get away from the fact that deficits are still rising, under Trumps plan the deficit is widening. Spend, spend, spend just like Obama (except Trump can't even try to blame the spending on the Great Recession, he got an economy that was improving), but it's ok because the D changed to an R, so no worries here.

The only thing you have is partisan propaganda. The only thing you can keep doing is try to deflect away from your last argument. But the numbers are clear, even the numbers you posted. The economy was doing better under Obama, the rate of improvement is pretty well unchanged under Trump. We have widening deficits, and projections that Trump can hit Obama's deficit in 4 years instead of 8. But so long as the R is an R, we'll just get excuses from you. The minute the R goes to a D, any concern over appropriately accounting for debt service or any of that will go out the window.

The economy is improving, as it was under Obama. Trump is increasing our deficit faster than Obama. Deal with it.

Never had a problem cutting spending but the bureaucrats in DC do as they cannot stop trying to buy votes. Trump submitted a lower budget request for 2019 but the establishment Republicans and Democrats don't like it and people like you give them support by proposing higher taxes. Why do you have such a problem with people keeping more of what they earn, doesn't that make them less dependent on the Federal Govt.?

Getting tired of telling you this but the deficits under Trump aren't widening as his actual deficits are shrinking as evidenced by the actual income and expense statements of the federal govt. You don't like hearing that just like you won't acknowledge that 500 billion of this years deficits are due to debt service on the debt Trump inherited wo without debt service for Trump the deficit is lower than anything Obama generated as debt service under Obama was skewed by the historical low interest rates. Obama inherited a 10.6 trillion dollar debt so that is the debt service he can blame on previous Administrations and Congress. Adding 9.3 trillion and increasing interest rates have added to that debt service. Suggest you learn who to blame and why?

As for the economy improving under Obama, I again await Treasury data supporting that claim. You make a lot of them but never back them up with any official data which is because you can find NONE. deal with it

 

[Ikari]

Never had a problem cutting spending but the bureaucrats in DC do as they cannot stop trying to buy votes. Trump submitted a lower budget request for 2019 but the establishment Republicans and Democrats don't like it and people like you give them support by proposing higher taxes. Why do you have such a problem with people keeping more of what they earn, doesn't that make them less dependent on the Federal Govt.?

Getting tired of telling you this but the deficits under Trump aren't widening as his actual deficits are shrinking as evidenced by the actual income and expense statements of the federal govt. You don't like hearing that just like you won't acknowledge that 500 billion of this years deficits are due to debt service on the debt Trump inherited wo without debt service for Trump the deficit is lower than anything Obama generated as debt service under Obama was skewed by the historical low interest rates. Obama inherited a 10.6 trillion dollar debt so that is the debt service he can blame on previous Administrations and Congress. Adding 9.3 trillion and increasing interest rates have added to that debt service. Suggest you learn who to blame and why?

As for the economy improving under Obama, I again await Treasury data supporting that claim. You make a lot of them but never back them up with any official data which is because you can find NONE. deal with it

Where am I "proposing higher taxes"? I just said taxes don't always generate more revenue and you need to cut spending along side.

All the reports are that deficits are rising under Trump. The numbers look like they'll be going up. You don't care about debt services, you don't subtract that number out of Obama's reported figures, so why should it be taken out of Trump's? Only that you need to change the rules to make Trump look better than he is.

But we have the numbers and the reports and the projections. Deficit is rising faster than under Obama, economic growth looks surprisingly the same as under Obama. Everything else, you just have to try to spin with false narratives and rule changes and deflections to try to paint Trump in a better light because that's what partisans do.

The U.S. Treasury Department has historical tables that report the annual U.S. debt for each fiscal year since 1790, and this data has been compiled for each president as detailed below.

Donald Trump: As projected in the FY 2019 budget, Trump plans to add $8.282 trillion, a 41-percent increase from the $20.245 trillion debt at the end of Obama's last budget for FY 2017. He will add almost as much in four years as Obama did in eight. That would also make him the second-biggest contributor to the debt in history in just one term.

FY 2021 - $1.119 trillion.
FY 2020 - $1.198 trillion.
FY 2019 - $1.225 trillion.
FY 2018 - $1.233 trillion.

Barack Obama: Added $8.588 trillion, a 74-percent increase from the $11.657 trillion debt at the end of Bush’s last budget, FY 2009.

FY 2017 - $672 billion.
FY 2016 - $1.423 trillion.
FY 2015 - $327 billion.
FY 2014 - $1.086 trillion.
FY 2013 - $672 billion.
FY 2012 - $1.276 trillion.
FY 2011 - $1.229 trillion.
FY 2010 - $1.652 trillion.
FY 2009 - $253 billion. Congress passed the Economic Stimulus Act, which spent $253 billion in FY 2009. This rare occurrence should be added to President Obama's contribution to the debt.

George W. Bush: Added $5.849 trillion, a 101-percent increase from the $5.8 trillion debt at the end of Clinton's last budget, FY 2001.

FY 2009 - $1.632 trillion. This was Bush's deficit without the impact of the Economic Stimulus Act.
FY 2008 - $1.017 trillion.
FY 2007 - $501 billion.
FY 2006 - $574 billion.
FY 2005 - $554 billion.
FY 2004 - $596 billion.
FY 2003 - $555 billion.
FY 2002 - $421 billion.

Bill Clinton: Added $1.396 trillion, a 32-percent increase from the $4.4 trillion debt at the end of George H.W. Bush's last budget, FY 1993.

FY 2001 - $133 billion.
FY 2000 - $18 billion.
FY 1999 - $130 billion.
FY 1998 - $113 billion.
FY 1997 - $188 billion.
FY 1996 - $251 billion.
FY 1995 - $281 billion.
FY 1994 - $281 billion.

George H.W. Bush: Added $1.554 trillion, a 54-percent increase from the $2.857 trillion debt at the end of Reagan's last budget, FY 1989.

FY 1993 - $347 billion.
FY 1992 - $399 billion.
FY 1991 - $432 billion.
FY 1990 - $376 billion.

Ronald Reagan: Added $1.86 trillion, a 186-percent increase from the $998 billion debt at the end of Carter's last budget, FY 1981.

FY 1989 - $255 billion.
FY 1988 - $252 billion.
FY 1987 - $225 billion.
FY 1986 - $297 billion.
FY 1985 - $256 billion.
FY 1984 - $195 billion.
FY 1983 - $235 billion.
FY 1982 - $144 billion.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Well nothing presented here says that higher-paying jobs are created here than under Obama. All it shows is the continued trend that existed when Obama was President existing when Trump is now President.

So...it seems like the actual results don't support your rhetoric.

The bottom line is Obama's numbers are skewed. Anytime you have a significant drop in the market it has always been followed by steady gains. I have yet to see a crash followed by a crash.

 

[Ikari]

The bottom line is Obama's numbers are skewed. Anytime you have a significant drop in the market it has always been followed by steady gains. I have yet to see a crash followed by a crash.

Given enough time, it should recovers. But this is a new tactic, Obama's economic numbers are skewed because he inherited an imploding economy. Well maybe, spending likely increased higher than it would have because of such. But at the later end of his Presidency, everything was coming together, and if you look at the economic numbers the rates of change are relatively the same as today. Which means the economy was improving in the latter portion of Obama's presidency as it has under Trump's.

 

[jaeger19]

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-11/trump-s-economic-record-is-yet-to-be-written

"So I’m not terribly surprised that the economy today looks pretty similar to the economy at the end of the Barack Obama administration. For example, the unemployment rate stands at 3.9 percent, but its 6-percentage-point steady decline began during Obama’s first term.

Or consider the most recent GDP release, which found the economy growing at an annual rate of 4.2 percent. That’s fast growth, to be sure. But the economy enjoyed an annual rate of growth above 4 percent during four quarters of Obama’s presidency.

Trump has been president for 19 months, during which the economy added an average of 189,000 jobs per month. In the final 19 months of the Obama presidency, the economy added 208,000 jobs per month — basically no difference.

I’m going to stop the comparisons here. It’s not good practice to analyze economic data grouped by presidential administration, precisely because the president does not control the economy with a wand, magic or otherwise. And the gist of the major economic indicators confirms the
e story told by the three I’ve discussed above."


Comments?

Credit does trump deserve? None..

Credit does Obama deserve.. h.mmm.. a small bit..

Generally as you said the president does not control the economy with a magic wand.. however, the government can nudge the economy.. and I think that the ARRA, probably stabilized the economy and helped it recover faster than it would have without government intervention.

 

[jaeger19]

The bottom line is Obama's numbers are skewed. Anytime you have a significant drop in the market it has always been followed by steady gains. I have yet to see a crash followed by a crash.

well.. and the farther you fell.. the larger the gain to be made. So that skews Trumps numbers as well....

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Given enough time, it should recovers. But this is a new tactic, Obama's economic numbers are skewed because he inherited an imploding economy. Well maybe, spending likely increased higher than it would have because of such. But at the later end of his Presidency, everything was coming together, and if you look at the economic numbers the rates of change are relatively the same as today. Which means the economy was improving in the latter portion of Obama's presidency as it has under Trump's.

The fact remains no matter who is president after a crash their is no place to go but up. A brick could have done as well.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

well.. and the farther you fell.. the larger the gain to be made. So that skews Trumps numbers as well....

The big difference is under Trump you can clearly see industry has become confident and is willing to start spending money and investing. We are looking at the start of one heck of a bull market. You can see the loss of fear by the people of their rights being taken by the decline in gun sales between Obama and Trump. Gun and ammo sales under Obama went off the charts do to the fear of his taking away our rights. You don't see that fear with Trump. What you do see is record hate by the democrats for a leader that has fought to improve our economy, keep us out of war, negotiate better trade deals for our people, secure our borders, and put interest of the people of America first. SAD.

 

[jaeger19]

The big difference is under Trump you can clearly see industry has become confident and is willing to start spending money and investing. We are looking at the start of one heck of a bull market. .

Actually its in spite of what trump has done.. which is to somewhat undermine confidence because of his ill advised and ignorant trade war which even American companies he is supposedly protecting.. don;t want.

Gun and ammo sales under Obama went off the charts do to the fear of his taking away our rights.

Which ultimately was misplaced fear.

You don't see that fear with Trump

Wow.. I am not sure what the heck you are watching but it certainly isn;t any relevant news. Companies are looking at ways to go overseas to avoid tariffs and deal with Trumps trade war. Companies like my agro company are worried that when the trade war is over.. we will have lost markets as our customers overseas have started to look for alternative sources for products or alternatives altogether. The longer the trade wars last..the more that our overseas customers will learn to adjust to less us supply.. and thus demand for our supply will drop.
Then there is the fear of his immigration games.. which can disrupt labor.. legal labor for my agro business.

Honestly,.. trump isn;t putting America first.. at all.. he is putting himself first at the expense of American business.

 

[Ikari]

The fact remains no matter who is president after a crash their is no place to go but up. A brick could have done as well.

OK. And years after the recovery, the economy continued to recover. And under Trump, the improvement is the same as it had been under Obama. So I guess they're both bricks.

 

[Conservative]

OK. And years after the recovery, the economy continued to recover. And under Trump, the improvement is the same as it had been under Obama. So I guess they're both bricks.

Seems rather interesting to many that you never post data to support your claims, where is the data showing the economic results of Obama better to or equal to Trump? I have checked the official sites for data and none of them support your claims, economy in 2016 1.8% and first qtr 2017 1.2%, hardly booming. Can you point to any qtr under Trump under 2%. can you point to any month under Trump when the U-6 was higher than what Obama left? Can you point to any month under Trump where the Part time for economic reason employment was worse that under Obama? Seems you buy rhetoric and ignore results never posting any

 

[Ikari]

Seems rather interesting to many that you never post data to support your claims, where is the data showing the economic results of Obama better to or equal to Trump? I have checked the official sites for data and none of them support your claims, economy in 2016 1.8% and first qtr 2017 1.2%, hardly booming. Can you point to any qtr under Trump under 2%. can you point to any month under Trump when the U-6 was higher than what Obama left? Can you point to any month under Trump where the Part time for economic reason employment was worse that under Obama? Seems you buy rhetoric and ignore results never posting any

You provide the data, I just use what you give. For instance, you put up the U6 numbers.



The last portion of Obama's term and the first portion of Trumps turn, it's a straight line. Same slope, the rate of change is neigh identical. So Trump gets a recovering economy, and keeps trudging along at the same rate as when he inherited it.

Some of y'all don't really seem to understand graphs too well.