HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF 14%

[MaggieD]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Regardless if it is true or not, when you defend the rich it still makes you sound like an asshole even most rich get that and for the record isn't there like not even 5 million millionaires in USA? Do you seriously think they need defending or better yet, that most of them even care if they are taxed like they were 14 years ago? Not only that as a percentage of their income, they usually pay less into state, local, social security and Medicare.

I'm not saying tax them to death. All I'm saying is make it reasonable like it was in the past and slowly phase out certain tax deductions for them as well as those for families like my own making around $50,000 along with making reasonable cuts to all parts of our government.

John, "they" have us exactly where they want us. Talking about revenue instead of spending.

 

[melons]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

What about no federal tax to individuals? Let the states tax the individuals in the state and then let the federal government tax the state on the income. Though I realize the money will all work out basically the same, it seems a more simple approach for the individual himself or herself. Then we could focus on our own states more and what fits our needs.

 

[What if...?]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

that post is indicative of the class warfare attitude that rich liberals use to gain more wealth by pandering to the basest emotions of the losers.

You see, THIS EXACTLY is why people are concdrned about concentration of wealth in this country.

The bull**** the rest of us have to deal with as the uber wealthy wage economic warfare on each other. To see who gets to feed at the trough first.

Billions on persuasive messaging and campaign investments.

Etc etc etc.

We can't afford the super rich any more than we could afford their predecessors, the conquerers.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

You see, THIS EXACTLY is why people are concdrned about concentration of wealth in this country.

The bull**** the rest of us have to deal with as the uber wealthy wage economic warfare on each other. To see who gets to feed at the trough first.

Billions on persuasive messaging and campaign investments.

Etc etc etc.

We can't afford the super rich any more than we could afford their predecessors, the conquerers.

Without the "super rich," our government would be broke.

 

[What if...?]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Without the "super rich," our government would be broke.

Oir government IS broke.

Everybody is addicted to credit.

Credit is a primary conduit through which money flows to the top.

Where it remains unless rented back to us as more credit.

Even the money our government borrows comes from the same place, and the interest goes right back into their coffers.

So in a sense you're right, we are dependant on the super acquisitive. And as TD says, the uber rich like it that way.

The cost benefit ratio is questionable from the standpoint of the average person.

Class warfare has been in full swing for decades.

And they're kicking our asses.

 

[LizardofOz]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

John, "they" have us exactly where they want us. Talking about revenue instead of spending.

I understand all to well that we spend far more than we should. Trying to simplify the issue and make it appear as if though one or the other should be done and not both though is bad math.
Everyone here has lower taxes than they ever have but it's not enough for some. I would love no taxes, I would love it if no one got taxed federally, locally, or otherwise but the reality is roads cost money. Education cost money.
TD has just posted one of his several threads where he wants to make the poor and middle class out to be bad guys. This myth that politicans work exclusively for people that are rich, poor or somewhere in between is insane. Just because you only get half of what you want doesn't mean the other guys are out to screw you over it just means you are part of society.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

I understand all to well that we spend far more than we should. Trying to simplify the issue and make it appear as if though one or the other should be done and not both though is bad math.
Everyone here has lower taxes than they ever have but it's not enough for some. I would love no taxes, I would love it if no one got taxed federally, locally, or otherwise but the reality is roads cost money. Education cost money.
TD has just posted one of his several threads where he wants to make the poor and middle class out to be bad guys. This myth that politicans work exclusively for people that are rich, poor or somewhere in between is insane. Just because you only get half of what you want doesn't mean the other guys are out to screw you over it just means you are part of society.

I think we've found some common ground. I agree with most of what you've said here. Hooorah!!!!

 

[cpwill]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

When did I say I was in a union? If your uncle is paying 50%, then how does Georgia and his local taxes work?

You told us a while back you were joining a union. As for the specifics, I never asked. The subject of taxes came up, and he mentioned it.

 

[tererun]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

This all coming from someone who used that totally unbiased MSNBC program "The Ed Show" as a source in another topic/string on this website.

Yet no one has proven that wrong yet. Feel free to shoot it down if it is so easy. Do it don't say you can do it.

 

[tererun]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

what are you claiming in this post. Your attack on Maggie has absolutely nothing relevant to the thread I started

I did not attack Maggie, I attacked her source. If I were to attack Maggie i would have called her a name or something. I did not do that. I just told how her source is known for lying and misrepresenting facts.

 

[LizardofOz]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

You told us a while back you were joining a union. As for the specifics, I never asked. The subject of taxes came up, and he mentioned it.

I remember now. No not union yet. I was put in a "pool" for that job. Still not there yet. Another job I applied for was in a pool too and surprisingly not union. So either or I don't care. As for my taxes, I looked at numbers here is how it is for me:

After looking at the numbers my wife and I with one child when including state, federal, local, etc pay about 17.25% of our income, this is not considering if I get anything back from state.

Honestly because of how I filed this year it will probably be less and I may end up owing. Last year the state of KY gave me $100 back.

Federally I do in fact pay 2% actual after deductions and child tax credit.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

I remember now. No not union yet. I was put in a "pool" for that job. Still not there yet. Another job I applied for was in a pool too and surprisingly not union. So either or I don't care. As for my taxes, I looked at numbers here is how it is for me:

After looking at the numbers my wife and I with one child when including state, federal, local, etc pay about 17.25% of our income, this is not considering if I get anything back from state.

Honestly because of how I filed this year it will probably be less and I may end up owing. Last year the state of KY gave me $100 back.

Federally I do in fact pay 2% actual after deductions and child tax credit.

Well, I'm thinking that was an eye-opener, John. 2%. I think this is the point many of us are trying to make. And good for you for posting it up.

 

[Green Balls]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

We're talking about taxes, Melons, not the cost of bread and butter. "The poor" actually get money back in excess of any taxes they paid in to the Federal government. Suddenly asking them to pay would be an astronomical burden.

I make less than 50k per year, so I guess I am considered poor. I've owed the IRS around $1500 per year from 2008 to 2011 on my taxes. Anyone else in my position is probably also paying out this much on their taxes (divorced and can only claim one child). You can't just assume the poor get money back at the end of the year.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

I make less than 50k per year, so I guess I am considered poor. I've owed the IRS around $1500 per year from 2008 to 2011 on my taxes. Anyone else in my position is probably also paying out this much on their taxes (divorced and can only claim one child). You can't just assume the poor get money back at the end of the year.

No, I don't assume that. But some who make less than you do. And some that make more than you do as well. As to do with how many children you have and childcare expenses you pay out. You're certainly NOT considered poor if you make less than $50K per year, Helix.

 

[wolfman24]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

I call 'em all Congress Clowns. I have no faith in any of them as a body. I see why you thought that. Perhaps I should choose my modifiers my carefully.

View attachment 67136091

Love it absolutely love it. 23+ characters.

 

[wolfman24]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

When did I say I was in a union? If your uncle is paying 50%, then how does Georgia and his local taxes work?

Georgias state income tax is 6% I know of no communities that have their own taxes but I could be wrong. That would make the top off tax around 41% State and Fed not including other deductions.
The only place I heard of that you can even approach 50% tax (state and Fed and city) is NY NY. State and Fed would come to around 45% and I have heard that local taxes are as high as 5%

Could be wrong though

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Yeah, how dishonest for private citizens, not running for any public office -- let alone POTUS -- to not want to post their tax returns on a publicly viewable internet forum. And yet the right would defend Romney, who IS running for POTUS, from publishing HIS tax returns. One can't help but question the Right's sincerity. :lamo

Nonetheless, the fact is that I paid a 5-6% higher tax rate than did Mitt Moneybags.

effective rate? that means you are making over 200K a year. Most people in that economic cohort want dividend income taxed lower because most of them are investing some of what they make

Mitt pays a higher rate than you do on earned income

He pays the same rate as you do on investment income

He pays millions more in actual taxes.

he does more for the government's revenue than you do so why are you whining?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Sorry, dear, but I'm not posting my tax returns on the internet. If you don't think it's a big deal, why don't you scan yours off and post them up to prove that you DIDN'T pay a higher rate than Romney?

If you really can't believe it then you aren't being particularly rational. On average, the top quintile (20%) of taxpayers paid a higher rate (17.9%) than Romney (14%) in 2011. The top 10% paid a higher rate still (20%), the top 5% paid at an even higher rate (21.9%) and the top 1% higher yet (24.6%). So, on average, people in Romney's income group paid at a rate better than 10% higher than Romney paid. These are facts which you can peruse on Page 12 of the CBO's report: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/57xx/doc5746/08-13-effectivefedtaxrates.pdf

One caveat: the report was published in 2004 so the numbers are obviously projected. But tax rates have not changed in the interim.

so what you are saying is that almost everyone that Obama wants to tax more is paying the highest effective rates. So all this class warfare is based on the specious insinuation that a few people like Romney pay a lower effective rate than the high salaried upper middle class

So you proved that Obama's ad is a LIE-people making 50K a year aren't paying anywhere near 14%

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

According to Politifact the claim is half true.

PolitiFact | Barack Obama says most Americans pay a higher tax rate than Mitt Romney

The bottom line is its pretty close and depending on how you look at it, it can go either way. From a technical standpoint you can cry about this ad "lying", however from a practical standpoint it is a reasonable argument that points out how ridiculous our taxation system is in the U.S.

The ultra wealthy paying an effective tax rate that is even close to that of the average American is a shame.

More lies. you are using every tax average americans pay, not the apples to apples comparison. Plus the ultra rich are not the people Obunny is targeting for massive tax hikes. He is targeting the upper middle class and those of us in the top one percent in total. The people who already pay the highest effective tax rates-both on federal income taxes and overall taxes.

The Ultra wealthy might pay lower effective rates BECAUSE OF A DIFFERENT TYPE OF INCOME but they pay far far more than millions of Americans combined and they get no extra benefits.

And your rant ignores the fact that rich people often are taxed three times on their income

1) corporate profit taxes

2) dividend income tax

3) the death tax

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

I understand all to well that we spend far more than we should. Trying to simplify the issue and make it appear as if though one or the other should be done and not both though is bad math.
Everyone here has lower taxes than they ever have but it's not enough for some. I would love no taxes, I would love it if no one got taxed federally, locally, or otherwise but the reality is roads cost money. Education cost money.
TD has just posted one of his several threads where he wants to make the poor and middle class out to be bad guys. This myth that politicans work exclusively for people that are rich, poor or somewhere in between is insane. Just because you only get half of what you want doesn't mean the other guys are out to screw you over it just means you are part of society.

The people I make out as bad guys are

1) those who don't pay much taxes but demand many government services and also demanding others being taxed more to pay for that stuff

2) rich democrats who gain wealth and power by pandering to the people in group #1

3) people who think they should be more wealthy and after realizing they cannot be, hope that the government taxes the winners more to make the envious losers feel better. that is the most common theme among the parasiters and taxers on this board. We have very few democratic party elites here and we don't have all that many people who are truly sucking on the public tits

lots of poor and middle class people aren't clamoring for others to pay more taxes

 

[Jarhead]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

All this hoopla about "effective" tax rate. The bottom line is that the rich pay more in $$ than I do. So what if they make more. That in no way effects me or mine. I don't have $ withheld from my check because Mitt Romney made a million bucks this week.

Furthermore, I would still like someone to explain exactly what "fair share" means. Do the wealthy need to pay more for their use of the highways? Are they entitled to more protection under the law? Is there some secret branch of the Military that provides "extra defense" for the rich? What exactly does it mean to pay ones "fair share" of the country's operating funds? Please, one of you "Progressive" minded people explain exactly what does "fair share" mean.

 

[Verax]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

More lies. you are using every tax average americans pay, not the apples to apples comparison. Plus the ultra rich are not the people Obunny is targeting for massive tax hikes. He is targeting the upper middle class and those of us in the top one percent in total. The people who already pay the highest effective tax rates-both on federal income taxes and overall taxes.

The Ultra wealthy might pay lower effective rates BECAUSE OF A DIFFERENT TYPE OF INCOME but they pay far far more than millions of Americans combined and they get no extra benefits.

And your rant ignores the fact that rich people often are taxed three times on their income

1) corporate profit taxes

2) dividend income tax

3) the death tax

I'm e-mailing Politifact right now to let them know they're wrong, not to mention the wealthy are REALLY REALLY being picked on and its not fair, TurtleDude the self proclaimed multi millionaire, feeder of millions, says so.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

so what you are saying is that almost everyone that Obama wants to tax more is paying the highest effective rates. So all this class warfare is based on the specious insinuation that a few people like Romney pay a lower effective rate than the high salaried upper middle class

So you proved that Obama's ad is a LIE-people making 50K a year aren't paying anywhere near 14%

They're paying more? Not sure I follow your point. Is it OK for people like Romney to pay less? And I mean this ignoring for the moment the tax twice argument.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

I'm e-mailing Politifact right now to let them know they're wrong, not to mention the wealthy are REALLY REALLY being picked on and its not fair, TurtleDude the self proclaimed multi millionaire, feeder of millions, says so.

another stupid post. the fact is the rich pay the highest rates on earned income and no one pays higher rates on investment income and the richest 1% are the only ones hit by the surtax called the death or estate tax.

You cannot argue against those facts

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

They're paying more? Not sure I follow your point. Is it OK for people like Romney to pay less? And I mean this ignoring for the moment the tax twice argument.

Uh romney paid over a million in taxes. you do understand that

he pays the highest possible rate on earned income and his investment income tax rate is not lower than any other person's. He gave a ton to charity so if you count his gross income his effective rate might be slightly lower than the 15% maximum effective rate another very wealthy person pays.

No one making 50K a year is paying an effective federal income tax rate of 14%