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How many actual nazis are there in the US?

ReverendHellh0und said:
Seems no one, especially those who like to lament or call people nazis won't answer, I thought I'd make this it's own topic.


out of a country of 350 million people, how many do you believe identify as national socialists, fascist, and/or white nationalists?


How big is the problem?
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Southern Poverty Law Center keeps tabs on this.

There are 99 neo-Nazi groups in the U.S., 78 racist skinhead groups, 46 general hate groups, 10 holocaust denial groups, 130 KKK groups, 43 neo-confederate groups, and 100 white nationalist groups.

They didn't have their total population of members listed on the page that I found, but it isn't large. https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

In spite of their small numbers, though, white supremacists are disproportionately active at this point in time compared to other types of terrorist groups. The FBI is currently investigating over 1,000 terrorist incidents committed by white supremacists in the US. https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...6d061d56efa_story.html?utm_term=.ac571c4222f9
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You want me to address your red herring you need to give me a specific statement and I will tell you what I think about it. you communist dependent class types can't help yourselves, can you.


I literally proved my position and your response was to attack me. you see how much fail you have?


here's a pail to carry it all

:failpail:
Click to expand...

You can pick any of Trump's racist or bigoted statements, your choice.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
You're making far too many assumptions, seemingly based on your own personal positions. You need to relook at Step 1.



It would be a legitimate question, especially in debate. You are confusing perception with facts.
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Is a white-nationalist even worthy of debate?

I'm not sure they are ideologically disposed to debate, and if they were, debating a white-nationalist lends credence to white-nationalist positions.

I think it is best to force white-nationalists from public discourse as William F. Buckley Jr. did, make them start wearing hoods again.

That's why I am curious what the good Reverend thinks of Trump's racist and bigoted comments.
 
pillars said:
Southern Poverty Law Center keeps tabs on this.

There are 99 neo-Nazi groups in the U.S., 78 racist skinhead groups, 46 general hate groups, 10 holocaust denial groups, 130 KKK groups, 43 neo-confederate groups, and 100 white nationalist groups.

They didn't have their total population of members listed on the page that I found, but it isn't large. https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

In spite of their small numbers, though, white supremacists are disproportionately active at this point in time compared to other types of terrorist groups. The FBI is currently investigating over 1,000 terrorist incidents committed by white supremacists in the US. https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...6d061d56efa_story.html?utm_term=.ac571c4222f9
Click to expand...




That's your first mistake. SPLC is a scam site who over-represents "hate groups" for donations.


Here is a previous comment I made on these guys.

ReverendHellh0und said:
Actually, I noticed they were full of **** years ago when they listed white power skinhead groups we ran out of the scene 20+ years ago and they still list them.


Here are some examples.

HEADQUARTERS
Micetrap Distribution
Maple Shade Township, New Jersey
HATE MUSIC

This is one guy with a mail order business, he's I think mexican as well.


HEADQUARTERS
Forza Nuova
New Jersey (statewide)
WHITE NATIONALIST


Is an italian nationalist group, how they think there is statewide representation here is mind boggling.

AC Skins
Atlantic City, New Jersey
RACIST SKINHEAD

If there are 5 of these drug addled boneheads left I'll donate 100 bucks to any cause you want. We beat the crap out of these guys in the 80's.




About the only legit white power group with any members is aryan strikeforce which may have 30 or so people. So you see the SPLC makes it seem like there is this large presence, I count less than 50 including the kooky klansmen. (jersey is north of the mason dixon).
Click to expand...



Also 1000 inquiries are not 1000 investigations as your article states. furthermore, where are the arrests?



What's interesting is that we hear things like this but when we start putting up "arrests" and "incidents", the reality sets in that the medias claims are not correct.
 
BitterPill said:
Is a white-nationalist even worthy of debate?

I'm not sure they are ideologically disposed to debate, and if they were, debating a white-nationalist lends credence to white-nationalist positions.

I think it is best to force white-nationalists from public discourse as William F. Buckley Jr. did, make them start wearing hoods again.

That's why I am curious what the good Reverend thinks of Trump's racist and bigoted comments.
Click to expand...





Are you suggesting I am a white nationalist, bro?
 
BitterPill said:
The fact you have such trouble answering my simple question bodes ill.
Click to expand...


ok-hand.jpg
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
That's your first mistake. SPLC is a scam site who over-represents "hate groups" for donations.


Here is a previous comment I made on these guys.





Also 1000 inquiries are not 1000 investigations as your article states. furthermore, where are the arrests?



What's interesting is that we hear things like this but when we start putting up "arrests" and "incidents", the reality sets in that the medias claims are not correct.
Click to expand...

SPLC is pretty well respected within law enforcement circles as a reliable source on white supremacist and other extremist groups. Same with the ADL. I'll go with that versus Rev Hellhound's opinion.

Re numbers, this report was compiled by NJ state police, and is easy to read with lots of pictures and charts: https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...rorism+-+2017+Terrorism+Threat+Assessment.pdf

According to that report, of the 22 domestic terrorist crimes/incidents that occurred last year, 7 were white supremacist. 6 of the 7 were violent.

There was an additional attempt by a white nationalist group to bomb a somali apartment complex/mosque in Kansas, which was fortunately stopped by law enforcement.

I'm not including anything on the increase in non-violent hate crimes that has occurred this year.

Domestic terrorism occurs for a diverse set of reasons, but white supremacist groups are responsible for the most. Extremist militia groups which are often racist and anti-immigrant are also highly active and involved in potentially dangerous plots.
 
pillars said:
SPLC is pretty well respected within law enforcement circles as a reliable source on white supremacist and other extremist groups. Same with the ADL. I'll go with that versus Rev Hellhound's opinion.

Re numbers, this report was compiled by NJ state police, and is easy to read with lots of pictures and charts: https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...rorism+-+2017+Terrorism+Threat+Assessment.pdf

According to that report, of the 22 domestic terrorist crimes/incidents that occurred last year, 7 were white supremacist. 6 of the 7 were violent.

There was an additional attempt by a white nationalist group to bomb a somali apartment complex/mosque in Kansas, which was fortunately stopped by law enforcement.

I'm not including anything on the increase in non-violent hate crimes that has occurred this year.

Domestic terrorism occurs for a diverse set of reasons, but white supremacist groups are responsible for the most. Extremist militia groups which are often racist and anti-immigrant are also highly active and involved in potentially dangerous plots.
Click to expand...

So, regarding the number of Nazis in the US, a sizable portion of Trump's supporters are clearly white-nationalists. Now the question is: how many of those white-nationalists are Nazi?
 
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pillars said:
SPLC is pretty well respected within law enforcement circles as a reliable source on white supremacist and other extremist groups. Same with the ADL. I'll go with that versus Rev Hellhound's opinion.
Click to expand...

No it's not. fbi removed it from a list of sources, it won't label antifa a domestic terrorist group, and it's highly inaccurate and alarmist. As I have shown just in my state alone it's inaccurate. The ADL is far more respectable than the splc.


Re numbers, this report was compiled by NJ state police, and is easy to read with lots of pictures and charts: https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...rorism+-+2017+Terrorism+Threat+Assessment.pdf

According to that report, of the 22 domestic terrorist crimes/incidents that occurred last year, 7 were white supremacist. 6 of the 7 were violent.
Click to expand...

Wait, 7 is not a majority of 22.

And lets look even deeper.


page 4.

1. https://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/wh...et-attack-on-chinese-student-i-am-a-sick-man/ -Not Domestic terrorism.
2. Guy attacked the cop, not because of the cops race etc, -Not Domestic Terrorism
3. Bias crime yes, domestic terrorism, no.
4. Bias crime yes, domestic terrorism, no.
5. same
6. same
7. same


What this tells me is that they are trying to label anything involving some racist douche as "domestic terrorism". these are not that. Mcveigh, domestic terrorist, "Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror, or fear, to achieve a political, religious or ideological aim.[1] It is used in this regard primarily to refer to violence against peacetime targets or in war against non-combatants." -wiki


You have to apply this to all those claims of far right terror attacks. one guy killing another because of skin color or religion is a bias crime. one guy in the name of his movement attempting to kill multitudes of people, terrorism. we are cheapening the word.


There was an additional attempt by a white nationalist group to bomb a somali apartment complex/mosque in Kansas, which was fortunately stopped by law enforcement.
Click to expand...

yes, that would be terrorism had it gone through..

I'm not including anything on the increase in non-violent hate crimes that has occurred this year.
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Why not, I am curious as to what that would be.
 
BitterPill said:
So, regarding the number of Nazis in the US, a sizable portion of Trump's supporters are clearly white-nationalists. Now the question is: how many of those white-nationalists are Nazi?
Click to expand...



This was already shown you you to be absolutely wrong.
 
BitterPill said:
So, regarding the number of Nazis in the US, a sizable portion of Trump's supporters are clearly white-nationalists. Now the question is: how many of those white-nationalists are Nazi?
Click to expand...

I would suggest that it is a relatively small number. There are many, many more white nationalist and white supremacist groups in the U.S. with a far older history of terrorism here.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
No it's not. fbi removed it from a list of sources, it won't label antifa a domestic terrorist group, and it's highly inaccurate and alarmist. As I have shown just in my state alone it's inaccurate. The ADL is far more respectable than the splc.




Wait, 7 is not a majority of 22.
Click to expand...

But it is the largest of all categories in terms of numbers. That's why I explained that homegrown terrorism is incredibly diverse. The NJ report also splits out nationalism and militias from white supremacist groups, when there is clearly crossover between these groups. If you added white supremacists, nationalists and extremist militias, the overwhelming majority would be white people attacking non-white people.




And lets look even deeper. page 4.

1. https://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/wh...et-attack-on-chinese-student-i-am-a-sick-man/ -Not Domestic terrorism.
2. Guy attacked the cop, not because of the cops race etc, -Not Domestic Terrorism
3. Bias crime yes, domestic terrorism, no.
4. Bias crime yes, domestic terrorism, no.
5. same
6. same
7. same


What this tells me is that they are trying to label anything involving some racist douche as "domestic terrorism". these are not that. Mcveigh, domestic terrorist, "Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror, or fear, to achieve a political, religious or ideological aim.[1] It is used in this regard primarily to refer to violence against peacetime targets or in war against non-combatants." -wiki


You have to apply this to all those claims of far right terror attacks. one guy killing another because of skin color or religion is a bias crime. one guy in the name of his movement attempting to kill multitudes of people, terrorism. we are cheapening the word.




yes, that would be terrorism had it gone through..
Click to expand...

Those crimes fit the definition of terrorism, which is committing a crime for ideological reasons in order to instill terror in population groups. That is the textbook definition of terrorism, the one that is utilized in law enforcement circles, and that's the definition I will be using, regardless of your arbitrary contortions.

Why not, I am curious as to what that would be.
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Because I'm at work and don't have time to research that item.
 
pillars said:
But it is the largest of all categories in terms of numbers. That's why I explained that homegrown terrorism is incredibly diverse. The NJ report also splits out nationalism and militias from white supremacist groups, when there is clearly crossover between these groups. If you added white supremacists, nationalists and extremist militias, the overwhelming majority would be white people attacking non-white people.






Those crimes fit the definition of terrorism, which is committing a crime for ideological reasons to instill terror in population groups.
Click to expand...




In that case the following is also terrorism:


1. The Knockout game
2. https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/black-captors-torture-white-victim-rant-against-trump-cpd-says/



But you are wrong. If I beat you up because I don't like your race or heritage, that's a hate crime under current law.

If I as part of a movement, group, ideology, or religion decide to kill as many people of your race or heritage as I can to instill fear into others, that's terrorism.



Mcveigh was terrorism.
car attacks terrorism
bomb plots terrorism.


words have meaning and we cannot expand the definition to hide the real issue of terrorism.


If Mohammed aloha snackbar kills to gay guys because they offend his religion, that's a hate crime, not terrorism.

It mohammed aloha snackbar goes into a night club and kills as many people as possible, that's terrorism.


if Johnny rebel kills a black guy cause he's dating a white girl, that's a hate crime.

If johnny rebel decides to run down as many blacks as he can with his truck because he want's to instill fear into people that's terrorism.


Law enforcement, unfortunately in the name to justify militarization and trumps rhetoric and restoration of clintons 1033 plan allowing police to get mil surplus gear uses shoddy definitions to justify said militarization.
 
I don't consider you an authority on this subject.

Here's what the FBI, which tracks terrorist incidents, has to say on the subject:
Definitions

There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

The FBI further describes terrorism as either domestic or international, depending on the origin, base, and objectives of the terrorist organization. For the purpose of this report, the FBI will use the following definitions:

Domestic terrorism is the unlawful use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual based and operating entirely within the United States or Puerto Rico without foreign direction committed against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives.

The FBI Divides Terrorist-Related Activities into Two Categories:

A terrorist incident is a violent act or an act dangerous to human life, in violation of the criminal laws of the United States, or of any state, to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
A terrorism prevention is a documented instance in which a violent act by a known or suspected terrorist group or individual with the means and a proven propensity for violence is successfully interdicted through investigative activity.
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https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

The NJ State Police correctly applied the above definition to the attacks on people of color by white supremacist groups during 2016.

#facts
 
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pillars said:
I don't consider you an authority on this subject.

Here's what the FBI, which tracks terrorist incidents, has to say on the subject:


https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

The NJ State Police correctly applied the above definition to the attacks on people of color by white supremacist groups during 2016.

#facts
Click to expand...



intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives.



your definition. how does it apply to the 4 incidents your report listed?


The Good Reverend is an ubiquitous authority on everything there ever was or ever will be! :pimpdaddy:
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives.



your definition. how does it apply to the 4 incidents your report listed?


The Good Reverend is an ubiquitous authority on everything there ever was or ever will be! :pimpdaddy:
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Intimidate the civilian population in furtherance of RAHOWA and other political aims. You know that white supremacist groups in the U.S. have been contemplating methods to spark a race war for years.

I may be new here, but I am a honeybadger on the throat of stupidity...so tread carefully.
 
pillars said:
Intimidate the civilian population in furtherance of RAHOWA and other political aims.
Click to expand...



That's not what they did, in fact none of them mention a racial holy war. most of them were reactive to a stimulous, not a planned attack to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives.
 
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