How can love be wrong? [W:713]

[phattonez]

Re: How can love be wrong?

Says you. This is nothing but your opinion, your belief. You have no real biological evidence to support this or any "purpose" for sexual organs.

The rate of transmission of venereal disease through the anus, the physical damage that is done there, are proof enough that the anus is not meant for sex. It's pretty clear from how these organs work and what they do that these are meant for sexual reproduction.

 

[phattonez]

Re: How can love be wrong?

Yes, by nature, some women are unable to get pregnant. They may either be AIS (which means they developed as a woman but have XY DNA), have no uterus, no ovaries, no eggs, etc. A man can be unable to produce sperm naturally. He could have sperm that simply do not move at all, making him unable to produce children via sexual intercourse. Those are natural things that can and do happen to both men and women and naturally prevent them from having children.

There's a difference between the nature of a thing and certain deficiencies in their function. For instance, a three legged dog doesn't mean that the nature of a dog is to have three legs, it just means that this dog had a disorder or an injury.

 

[Rich2018]

Re: How can love be wrong?

In case I missed any replies:

Can anyone give a good, non-religious, argument against same sex marriages?

 

[Rich2018]

Re: How can love be wrong?

Some simply believe it is against natural order, but not all ascribe nature as being Diety created.

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What is "natural order" ?


Is driving a car against "natural order" ?

 

[Rich2018]

Re: How can love be wrong?

Yeah, there is.

He means there is no such THING as love.

Like there's no such THING as hot or cold, dark or light.


They're all perceptions of the human mind...you can't walk into a store and buy a pound of "love".

 

[roguenuke]

Re: How can love be wrong?

The rate of transmission of venereal disease through the anus, the physical damage that is done there, are proof enough that the anus is not meant for sex. It's pretty clear from how these organs work and what they do that these are meant for sexual reproduction.

Less than 1/2 of homosexual men contract any sort of STD, despite having anal sex. And even fewer gay women. I've explained the numbers on this. Additionally, heterosexual men and women participate in anal sex and anal stimulation of multiple sorts.

You still provided no evidence of purpose, only how the penis has evolved as a sexual organ. Nothing more. It also is a waste expulsion organ. You keep missing that part.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: How can love be wrong?

There's a difference between the nature of a thing and certain deficiencies in their function. For instance, a three legged dog doesn't mean that the nature of a dog is to have three legs, it just means that this dog had a disorder or an injury.

"Nature" of a thing is subjective, at least when talking about living things. There is no "nature" of a dog. Having 3 legs or 4 does not have any bearing on whether we call the dog a dog. You seem to think that so long as you label something that is abnormal as a "disorder" it supports you. It doesn't. It is a ridiculous attempt to justify your personal beliefs on this and attempt to show evidence of your beliefs about something of nature having a purpose that you bestow upon it based on your religious ideology. It doesn't work like that.

 

[blarg]

Re: How can love be wrong?

The rate of transmission of venereal disease through the anus, the physical damage that is done there, are proof enough that the anus is not meant for sex. It's pretty clear from how these organs work and what they do that these are meant for sexual reproduction.

so lesbians are ok wiht you and gay men can use oral sex mutual masturbation or maybe anal if they are tested for sexult trnismited dieseases lube up and take it slow or use fingers or toys

i tried discussing ways of gay sex that reduced disease transmission but

you just told me you want to ban all gay sex because you dont like it

yet you still lie to us and say your objection is rooted in disease and physical harm

why do you retry lies you have already exposed yourself on?

 

[maquiscat]

Re: How can love be wrong?

What is "natural order" ?


Is driving a car against "natural order" ?

I am.not trying to justify them, nor do I claim to fully understand their positions. However, at a guess, I would say that tool use and creation would be within natural order.

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[blarg]

Re: How can love be wrong?

There's a difference between the nature of a thing and certain deficiencies in their function. For instance, a three legged dog doesn't mean that the nature of a dog is to have three legs, it just means that this dog had a disorder or an injury.

more of the same old lies from you if you don't care about the lack of children because a coupe looks like a couple that can have them but object to it with gay couples

then you dont give a **** about the ability to have kids

your lies and hypocrisy are obvious the only 1 you have fooled is yourself

 

[blarg]

Re: How can love be wrong?

In case I missed any replies:

Can anyone give a good, non-religious, argument against same sex marriages?

i dont like it is the best iv ever seen

yet to see a good reason why some one should dislike it

but if you can't help ones self and feel strongly enough that will do for ones self

no reason other people should support you if they don't feel the same way though

 

[Wan]

Re: How can love be wrong?

To your thread title question: Between two consenting adults? I have no idea. I find it rather stupid to even care about two people of the same sex loving each other. Live and let live. As long as their happy with each other then nothing else should matter.

What if it's a man loving a cow? Or, when one day the Artificial Intelligence is advanced enough, one man loving a machine? What about necrophiliacs? Sure there is no MUTUAL love, but nobody can say the necrophiliac does not love his new corpse.

 

[blarg]

Re: How can love be wrong?

What if it's a man loving a cow? Or, when one day the Artificial Intelligence is advanced enough, one man loving a machine? What about necrophiliacs? Sure there is no MUTUAL love, but nobody can say the necrophiliac does not love his new corpse.

what if its a man loving another man what exactly is wrong with same sex couples?

 

[maquiscat]

Re: How can love be wrong?

What if it's a man loving a cow? Or, when one day the Artificial Intelligence is advanced enough, one man loving a machine? What about necrophiliacs? Sure there is no MUTUAL love, but nobody can say the necrophiliac does not love his new corpse.

One of our modern key concepts about what is allowable re: sex is consent, which sadly was not always a part of our thinking. We include in that the ability to give informed consent, that is, being able to show that they understand possible consequences of their actions.

If a bovine creature could manage to communicate with us, indicating self awareness and ability to reason, then yes, it should be allowable. The same principle goes for AI, although that one would probably need a little more scrutiny to ensure an actual move to sentience, vs simulated. Necrophilia cannot never pass that standard under two aspects. One, part of the ability to give informed consent is the ability to withdraw it. Obviously a corspe no longer possesses that ability. Secondly, for those that would argue that sex with a corspe is really no different than sex with an object, say a blow up doll. Which BTW, is quite a valid logical conclusion. However, we then come around to the issue of ownership of objects. I can go out and buy a blow up doll and I then own the object. A corspe however, still belongs to the one who was living. And as such, we come back to the ability of being able to withdraw consent for informed consent to be present.

I will admit that a logical argument can be made that if we are allowed to provide our bodies and organs to others for medical research and transplant, then logically we can also do so for purposes of others having sex with the corpse. In such a case, documentation would have to be pretty solid, at least that of medical donation, if not stricter.

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[lurchadams]

Re: How can love be wrong?

What if it's a man loving a cow? Or, when one day the Artificial Intelligence is advanced enough, one man loving a machine? What about necrophiliacs? Sure there is no MUTUAL love, but nobody can say the necrophiliac does not love his new corpse.

Rick Santorum? Is that you? Remember how well it worked out last time when you employed that logic, Mr. "man on dog"!

 

[phattonez]

Re: How can love be wrong?

"Nature" of a thing is subjective, at least when talking about living things. There is no "nature" of a dog. Having 3 legs or 4 does not have any bearing on whether we call the dog a dog. You seem to think that so long as you label something that is abnormal as a "disorder" it supports you. It doesn't. It is a ridiculous attempt to justify your personal beliefs on this and attempt to show evidence of your beliefs about something of nature having a purpose that you bestow upon it based on your religious ideology. It doesn't work like that.

When you describe a dog, you don't talk about a furry animal with 4 legs that barks?

 

[phattonez]

Re: How can love be wrong?

Less than 1/2 of homosexual men contract any sort of STD, despite having anal sex. And even fewer gay women. I've explained the numbers on this. Additionally, heterosexual men and women participate in anal sex and anal stimulation of multiple sorts.

You still provided no evidence of purpose, only how the penis has evolved as a sexual organ. Nothing more. It also is a waste expulsion organ. You keep missing that part.

Yet they account for 70% of new AIDS cases (despite being maybe 2% of the population). What does that tell you?

 

[lurchadams]

Re: How can love be wrong?

Yet they account for 70% of new AIDS cases (despite being maybe 2% of the population). What does that tell you?

It tells us you should get your facts straight. HIV is not the same thing as AIDS.

 

[blarg]

Re: How can love be wrong?

Yet they account for 70% of new AIDS cases (despite being maybe 2% of the population). What does that tell you?

of thats true then it tells me

there's a need for safer sex practices between people of the same sex?

and not people should stop having homosexual sex because phattnoez finds it yucky

 

[Wan]

Re: How can love be wrong?

what if its a man loving another man what exactly is wrong with same sex couples?

My point is that people should just shut up about how wonderful and moving homosexual sex is. Just because two people love each other, it does not make what they do normal. Homosexuality is abnormal.

One of our modern key concepts about what is allowable re: sex is consent, which sadly was not always a part of our thinking. We include in that the ability to give informed consent, that is, being able to show that they understand possible consequences of their actions.

If a bovine creature could manage to communicate with us, indicating self awareness and ability to reason, then yes, it should be allowable. The same principle goes for AI, although that one would probably need a little more scrutiny to ensure an actual move to sentience, vs simulated. Necrophilia cannot never pass that standard under two aspects. One, part of the ability to give informed consent is the ability to withdraw it. Obviously a corspe no longer possesses that ability. Secondly, for those that would argue that sex with a corspe is really no different than sex with an object, say a blow up doll. Which BTW, is quite a valid logical conclusion. However, we then come around to the issue of ownership of objects. I can go out and buy a blow up doll and I then own the object. A corspe however, still belongs to the one who was living. And as such, we come back to the ability of being able to withdraw consent for informed consent to be present.

I will admit that a logical argument can be made that if we are allowed to provide our bodies and organs to others for medical research and transplant, then logically we can also do so for purposes of others having sex with the corpse. In such a case, documentation would have to be pretty solid, at least that of medical donation, if not stricter.

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Not sure what you are on about. Anyway, why does love have to be consensual before you will consider it to be good? It seems pretty arbitrary. And if you can do this, then surely I can say that sex has to be heterosexual before I will consider it to be good.

Also, what about consensual incest? A father having sex with his grown-up daughter. Let's say they really love each other. Are you going to not puke about this, too?

Rick Santorum? Is that you? Remember how well it worked out last time when you employed that logic, Mr. "man on dog"!

I can see why you would confuse me with a US senator. I do have that statesman air about me, don't I?

 

[Wan]

Re: How can love be wrong?

It tells us you should get your facts straight. HIV is not the same thing as AIDS.

Oh Ok, so a disproportionate number of gay men contract HIV but not AIDS. This makes it so much better.

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: How can love be wrong?

My point is that people should just shut up about how wonderful and moving homosexual sex is. Just because two people love each other, it does not make what they do normal. Homosexuality is abnormal.

:roll:

God, why does everything boil down to sex with you people? I love my girlfriend just like a husband loves his wife. It's not just about the sex.

 

[Wan]

Re: How can love be wrong?

:roll:

God, why does everything boil down to sex with you people? I love my girlfriend just like a husband loves his wife. It's not just about the sex.

Maybe I should have said "homosexual relationships". I don't mean just sex. But anyway, my point is, just because two people love each other, it does not make what they do normal. Case in point: a father having sex with his consenting daughter. Maybe they too love each other, but this does not change the fact what they do is yucky.

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: How can love be wrong?

Maybe I should have said "homosexual relationships". I don't mean just sex. But anyway, my point is, just because two people love each other, it does not make what they do normal. Case in point: a father having sex with his consenting daughter. Maybe they too love each other, but this does not change the fact what they do is yucky.

:roll:

Man. You just love making ridiculous comparisons, don't you?

 

[Wan]

Re: How can love be wrong?

:roll:

Man. You just love making ridiculous comparisons, don't you?

Just because you cannot counter my example it does not make it "ridiculous".

But it doesn't matter. My point is, homos and their relationships are both abnormal and gross. Your relationship with your girlfriend is slightly better though, because female homos are less gross than male homos.