Hormones, surgery, regret

[SDET]

I saw the title and didn't even think about transgenderism. In general hormones and surgery can lead to regret. Those are things to be avoided if possible. Unless you're disfigured in an accident or something like that, I would hope that people would think twice before getting plastic surgery.

 

[Renae]

Transgender sex change regret: Transitioning won't heal real issues

"The reprieve I experienced through surgery was only temporary. Hidden underneath the makeup and female clothing was the little boy hurt by childhood trauma. I was once again experiencing gender dysphoria, but this time I felt like a male inside a body refashioned to look like a woman. I was living my dream, but still I was deeply suicidal."

I'm not posting this as a "usual" case, or even a "common case", but I think there is something interesting to be gleaned from this man's story.

If someone experiences transgenderism that is built around a childhood trauma, it is possible that the transgenderism is a form of escapism, a way of not being the person who suffered the trauma? In those cases it seems that transgender surgery is the exactly wrong solution.

I mean, the point of Transgender surgery is to mesh the outward appearance to the person they are already comfortable being inside... if they are instead role playing the opposite sex to avoid being themselves, then changing outward sexual appearance doesn't fix their problem, they just start wanting to switch back... because they are still themselves.

However many people in the transgender community fall into this category, I wonder if it is even possible to adequately treat them now. Our society is increasingly making it near criminal to question a person's transgender choice. Those who make the wrong decision can never fully be made whole, but who is going to suggest to someone that maybe a sex change isn't really what they need?

This dude, he is an outlier. Damn of course there are going to be people that don't have positive experiences with something as massive to their lives as GRS.

 

[OlNate]

This dude, he is an outlier. Damn of course there are going to be people that don't have positive experiences with something as massive to their lives as GRS.

Yes, reality quickly gets lost when people generalize based off of outliers.

 

[Renae]

I'm on hormones. Okay, I've been to counseling for a LONG time, with multiple councilors. I get my first GRS letter in Apr. I could, if things fall right, have my surgery before the end of the year. This is after YEARS of build up. People that short circuit the process, are not honest with themselves, their therapist, don't do due diligence are going to have subpar outcomes. That's life.

 

[Mach]

It's an important cautionary tale. One of my game developer heroes from the golden age of digital games, transitioned to a female. He regretted it, and wrote a heartfelt appeal on his deathbead, having died relatively young from lung cancer.

After a third failed marriage, Bunten, who had until then been living as male, transitioned to living as a woman. Bunten underwent sex reassignment surgery in November 1992 and afterwards kept a lower profile in the games industry. Bunten later regretted having surgery, finding that for her, the drawbacks of surgical transition outweighed the benefits, and wishing she had considered alternative approaches.[6] She joked that the surgery was to improve the video game industry's male/female ratio and aesthetics,[7] but advised others considering a sex change not to proceed unless there was no alternative, and warned them of the cost, saying "Being my 'real self' could have included having a penis and including more femininity in whatever forms made sense. I didn't know that until too late and now I have to make the best of the life I've stumbled into. I just wish I would have tried more options before I jumped off the precipice."[6]

I can't help but think about all the gastric bypass surgeries too, in how it's believed it will "fix everything". A single-minded drive to get approved for the surgery, and everything will be better.
But then most return back to their old ways...it was never an issue of their body, but their mind.

I'm not suggesting that's the case for everyone, it's just a huge step and has lifelong consequences, and its very difficult to know if it will long-term be the right choice.

 

[Renae]

It's an important cautionary tale. One of my game developer heroes from the golden age of digital games, transitioned to a female. He regretted it, and wrote a heartfelt appeal on his deathbead, having died relatively young from lung cancer.



I can't help but think about all the gastric bypass surgeries too, in how it's believed it will "fix everything". A single-minded drive to get approved for the surgery, and everything will be better.
But then most return back to their old ways...it was never an issue of their body, but their mind.

I'm not suggesting that's the case for everyone, it's just a huge step and has lifelong consequences, and its very difficult to know if it will long-term be the right choice.

WEll see I'm a double case here, as I have ACTUALLY had Gastric Sleeve (100lbs down in 6 months, if I posted the excel file of the inches lost so far...) and while I do hate eating now, I won't lie it's sad, I realized that I had a problem I wsa failing, and this resolved it. I chose not to do bypass because damn, that **** is really hard core and I wasn't that far gone.

 

[jmotivator]

Yes, reality quickly gets lost when people generalize based off of outliers.

Well, it's not "generalizing off of outliers", my OP didn't even do that. But from the guys own testimony, his outreach program is getting contacted by a lot of people who regret their transition.

 

[jmotivator]

This dude, he is an outlier. Damn of course there are going to be people that don't have positive experiences with something as massive to their lives as GRS.

I mean, it's sure possible that one person's own experience is an outlier... but that goes both ways. And I didn't say in the OP that he was the rule rather than the exception, just that it is interesting to consider that some people who are uncomfortable being who they are would continue that discomfort through GRS.

 

[OlNate]

Well, it's not "generalizing off of outliers", my OP didn't even do that. But from the guys own testimony, his outreach program is getting contacted by a lot of people who regret their transition.

You're right, your OP didn't. But sadly many will generalize based on this story, and will use it to invalidate or ridicule the needs of others.

Outlier stories require extra caution, especially these days, when people are so quick to generalize. Even if it wasn't your attempt to generalize, it's worth throwing out a few reminders about the outlier status of this story.

 

[Renae]

Well, it's not "generalizing off of outliers", my OP didn't even do that. But from the guys own testimony, his outreach program is getting contacted by a lot of people who regret their transition.

"A LOT OF REGRET" Bull ****, what's a lot? Where are the hard numbers? He's an activist with an agenda, so he's not exactly an honest source.

 

[Renae]

I mean, it's sure possible that one person's own experience is an outlier... but that goes both ways. And I didn't say in the OP that he was the rule rather than the exception, just that it is interesting to consider that some people who are uncomfortable being who they are would continue that discomfort through GRS.

Reality check, the hard research on the matter shows that those who don't properly go through the process, aren't honest with themselves and their therapists tend to have lesser results. Every one of my therapists has stressed this, has poked, propped and worked hard to make sure this is a REAL issue, not a fetish, not deflecting from underlying other issues. It's get's a little awkward and uncomfortable, but it's necessary. I took my time arriving at this point, and I'm taking my time on my journey specifically to ensure it's the RIGHT path, and that I won't regret my decision later.

I just hate this dude, because his conclusions are dishonest as ****. It wasn't the GRS that was the issue, it was his own dishonesty to himself then that lead him there, and his dishonesty now at not admitting that which is the real problem.

 

[jmotivator]

"A LOT OF REGRET" Bull ****, what's a lot? Where are the hard numbers? He's an activist with an agenda, so he's not exactly an honest source.

I said a "lot of people" not a "lot of regret". You'd have to talk with the guy in the video to get the number of transgenders he is helping, and the amount of regret those people have.

 

[jmotivator]

Reality check, the hard research on the matter shows that those who don't properly go through the process, aren't honest with themselves and their therapists tend to have lesser results. Every one of my therapists has stressed this, has poked, propped and worked hard to make sure this is a REAL issue, not a fetish, not deflecting from underlying other issues. It's get's a little awkward and uncomfortable, but it's necessary. I took my time arriving at this point, and I'm taking my time on my journey specifically to ensure it's the RIGHT path, and that I won't regret my decision later.

Your experience is as anecdotal as his. I have not made a claim as to whether your experience or his is more common.. if anything I have settled on the side that your experience is more common. I am simply pointing out that his experience of sexual abuse that gave rise to him feeling he was a different sex than what he was born, appears to have been a pathology that was actually genderless, and so it manifested itself as his desire to be the opposite gender of what ever he was in the moment. How you screen for that, I don't know... and by his statements, it's effected more than just him, so maybe, just maybe, the screening needs work.

I just hate this dude, because his conclusions are dishonest as ****. It wasn't the GRS that was the issue, it was his own dishonesty to himself then that lead him there, and his dishonesty now at not admitting that which is the real problem.

Well, this dude lived 8 years as a post-op transgender person, and has been in the transgender community almost as long as either of us has existed (and I'm 48 yo), so I'm not ready to discard his statements as dishonest. They may not be your experiences, but they can still be his experiences.

 

[Renae]

Your experience is as anecdotal as his. I have not made a claim as to whether your experience or his is more common.. if anything I have settled on the side that your experience is more common. I am simply pointing out that his experience of sexual abuse that gave rise to him feeling he was a different sex than what he was born, appears to have been a pathology that was actually genderless, and so it manifested itself as his desire to be the opposite gender of what ever he was in the moment. How you screen for that, I don't know... and by his statements, it's effected more than just him, so maybe, just maybe, the screening needs work.



Well, this dude lived 8 years as a post-op transgender person, and has been in the transgender community almost as long as either of us has existed (and I'm 48 yo), so I'm not ready to discard his statements as dishonest. They may not be your experiences, but they can still be his experiences.

He's living proof if you aren't honest with yourself bad things happen

 

[jmotivator]

He's living proof if you aren't honest with yourself bad things happen

So, should those who have a bad experience with GRS keep quiet? That seems to be your arguement here.

 

[Renae]

So, should those who have a bad experience with GRS keep quiet? That seems to be your arguement here.

Yeha, that's what I'm totes saying... Or I'm offering my opinion that he wasn't honest with himself and others. Can I flip this back at you "So anyone the has a different viewpoint should just shut up?"

 

[maquiscat]

So, should those who have a bad experience with GRS keep quiet? That seems to be your arguement here.

Sounds more like she's saying that before you do something permenant, take the time and really be sure it is what you want need.

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[jmotivator]

Sounds more like she's saying that before you do something permenant, take the time and really be sure it is what you want need.

Right, but how do you know that until you get a sex change and start to realize that feeling that you are the wrong sex hasn't gone away?

 

[maquiscat]

Right, but how do you know that until you get a sex change and start to realize that feeling that you are the wrong sex hasn't gone away?

That risk will always be there, just like the risks of skydiving, or rock climbing or many other things will always be there no matter how much you prepare. The thing is to minimize the risk by taking the time, in this case, to see proper therapists, go over all the other possibilities and eliminate them, and start with other less permenant changes, such as presenting. It is when people rush things that they make mistakes that could have been avoided.

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[jmotivator]

Yeha, that's what I'm totes saying... Or I'm offering my opinion that he wasn't honest with himself and others. Can I flip this back at you "So anyone the has a different viewpoint should just shut up?"

You are attacking his honesty when all he has said is what he experienced and that he is being contacted by others with the same experience. If you didn't want him to stop talking you wouldn't have entered the discussion trying to discredit him.

... and yet...

 

[jmotivator]

That risk will always be there, just like the risks of skydiving, or rock climbing or many other things will always be there no matter how much you prepare. The thing is to minimize the risk by taking the time, in this case, to see proper therapists, go over all the other possibilities and eliminate them, and start with other less permenant changes, such as presenting. It is when people rush things that they make mistakes that could have been avoided.

Again, it is weird seeing the way people approach this discussion. The video is of a guy who has been through 2 GRS and he had an interesting observation of why he had gone through the first, and why it didn't fix his problem, and that he has been encountering more people with the same issue. It's interesting.

 

[maquiscat]

You are attacking his honesty when all he has said is what he experienced and that he is being contacted by others with the same experience. If you didn't want him to stop talking you wouldn't have entered the discussion trying to discredit him.

... and yet...

There is a major difference between not wanting someone to talk at all, and calling them out for a dishonest presentation. If the author is presenting as if his experience is the common experience, then calling him out on it is not wanting him silenced. Even if it wasn't the author's intent to present it as such, but he left it ambiguous enough that it wasn't clear, it still isn't wanting him to shut up to point out the possible misleading content.

Now granted there is the factor of one's interpretation of the writing, and I am not, at this point, speaking to how I interpreted the article as to intent. I am only pointing out that Renae's does not seem to speak of wanting the author not to speak on the topic

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[maquiscat]

Again, it is weird seeing the way people approach this discussion. The video is of a guy who has been through 2 GRS and he had an interesting observation of why he had gone through the first, and why it didn't fix his problem, and that he has been encountering more people with the same issue. It's interesting.

I have yet to see the video itself and I am not, at this point, commenting on it, in and of itself. It certainly isn't wrong if he is presenting this as a, "hey this happened to me because I didn't do my due diligence" or "there are other possibilities of these symptoms than transgenderism, so be sure you know what you have" thing. And maybe he is. But if he doesn't note that he is a statistical outlier, then he is presenting the issue dishonestly, intended or not.

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[Renae]

You are attacking his honesty when all he has said is what he experienced and that he is being contacted by others with the same experience. If you didn't want him to stop talking you wouldn't have entered the discussion trying to discredit him.

... and yet...

And yet... you're giving his opinion weight and discounting mine because you like his view and dislike mine...

Gonna roll my eyes here some more.

 

[Renae]

I have yet to see the video itself and I am not, at this point, commenting on it, in and of itself. It certainly isn't wrong if he is presenting this as a, "hey this happened to me because I didn't do my due diligence" or "there are other possibilities of these symptoms than transgenderism, so be sure you know what you have" thing. And maybe he is. But if he doesn't note that he is a statistical outlier, then he is presenting the issue dishonestly, intended or not.

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Sex Change Regret That's HIS website.

Walt Heyer, author of Paper Genders, A Transgender's Faith and Perfected with Love:

"I myself was diagnosed with gender identity disorder and underwent sex change surgery. Seven years later, I realized sex change surgery was not treatment at all.

I was misdiagnosed. I was suffering from a dissociative disorder that required talk therapy, not surgery."

From his site. He wasn't honest with the people he was working with or they were'nt with him