HIV "cure" could make UK first to be rid of virus

[jonny5]

Belgium. Some of the tax on unemployment benefit goes to the health care system. We don't have a huge homelessness problem.

"The Belgian healthcare system is one of the best in Europe but you need to have state and/or private health insurance to use it."

"As part of the social security enrolment process, all employees and self-employed must register and start making contributions to a health insurance fund (mutuelle / ziekenfonds). Contributions are 7.35 percent of your gross salary (3.55 percent deducted at source; 3.8 percent paid by your employer). Self-employed people pay the full 7.35 percent through social security payments. You and any dependents are covered."

The Belgian healthcare system | Healthcare | Expatica Belgium

How does an unemployed person pay taxes? 8% unemployment is a costly problem in Belgium according to this

Unemployed people are most costly in Belgium: Report – EurActiv.com

Not that it matters. Even if everyone pays theyre paying a hefty fee. 50% of GDP is taken by the govt. And still have 100% debt to GDP

 

[zyzygy]

How does an unemployed person pay taxes? 8% unemployment is a costly problem in Belgium according to this

Unemployed people are most costly in Belgium: Report – EurActiv.com

Not that it matters. Even if everyone pays theyre paying a hefty fee. 50% of GDP is taken by the govt. And still have 100% debt to GDP

I could give you some links but they are all in Dutch.

 

[jonny5]

I could give you some links but they are all in Dutch.

im here for the debate. Use your own words.

 

[zyzygy]

im here for the debate. Use your own words.

It's complicated. The regulations about unemployment and tax run to 20 pages.

 

[Lafayette]

50% of GDP is taken by the govt. And still have 100% debt to GDP

And so? Fifty-two percent of all DISCRETIONARY Federal Expenditure in the US goes to only one agency - the Department of Defense!

I can spout figures too - what counts is the cogency of the text that should accompany them. "Discretionary" expenditure is the policy made, non-discretionary funding are the obligations (read debt) undertaken.

You are throwing numbers around as if they were stones ...
_____________________

 

[Lafayette]

It's complicated. The regulations about unemployment and tax run to 20 pages.

Don't get flustered by the dork.

It amuses him ...
__________________

 

[PeteEU]

So those against UHC... you are against insurance too right?

 

[Lafayette]

How does an unemployed person pay taxes?

The question is moot. One does not "chose" unemployment, it is a phenomenon that happens. So, let's ask Why?

You are obsessed by unemployment? Good, then think about how to lessen it in a modern democracy that can no longer bash-out pots-'n-pans at a competitive price. Meaning What?

This: The structure of employment must go "up-market", that is, people must have qualifications that meet the requirements of the sort of jobs (mostly services-orientated) that exist. And for which a higher level of skills is typically necessary. (If I keep harping about the Information Age, it is because more and more jobs require a knowledge/mastery of Information Technology.)

Thus, the question of unemployment becomes more easy to understand. We "educate" people out-of-unemployment by making it possible for them to obtain (without too much cost) the qualifications necessary for work that is not the least bit like that which their parents obtained.

Get it ... ?

 

[zyzygy]

im here for the debate. Use your own words.

To boil it down for you.At the moment if your unemployment benefit is less than 12000 euros per year you pay no tax, above 12000 you pay 360 euros per year. Your medical insurance will cost you around 150 euros per year. A visit to your doctor will cost around 25 euros and you will get around 18 euros back from your ziekenkas, that's the name for medical insurance companies. I had a filling replaced at my dentist last week, it cos 75 euros and I'll get around 65 euros back. When I was being treated for leukemia I had to have regular blood tests and bone marrow punctures. The blood tests cost me 20 euros, the punctures 30, my insurance paid the rest. I suspect that it would have cost me a lot more in the USA.

Healthcare in Belgium | Europe-Cities

Belgium has shortest waiting time for healthcare in Europe | Focus on Belgium

"Belgian healthcare is especially praised for its accessibility and generosity. Belgium spends a lot of money on healthcare and the quality of public services is generally high. Patients who need to see a doctor in Europe will be treated most quickly in Belgium or Switzerland. In most cases, patients in Belgium will get to see a doctor that very same day. Cancer treatment starts, on average, less than 21 days after diagnosis. In many other countries, the waiting time is often much longer."

"People have to pay a certain amount of their medical bill themselves and they usually pay fees directly to their doctor or the hospital. They must submit their receipts for reimbursement and the money is then paid directly into the claimant’s bank account.

Most Belgians take out supplementary health insurance to cover the portion of their bill, which is not reimbursed. Many employers provide supplementary health insurance cover as an employment benefit.

The state fund covers most medical services including treatment by specialists, hospitalisation, prescriptions, pregnancy and childbirth and rehabilitation. Self-employed people are only protected for “major risks,” which include mental illness, tuberculosis, cancer, hereditary diseases, birth defects, most types of surgery and childbirth.

The Belgian system of reimbursement is complex. There are 18 categories of medical procedure and service and each one has its own reimbursement level, which can vary from no reimbursement to 100%. Some citizens like widows, orphans and those receiving certain public aid like the blind fall into a “preferred” category, which entitles them to a higher level of reimbursement. Usually though, for people who are not in a preferred group, 75% of the doctors fee is reimbursed."

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I have a friend who is now an American citizen. His family lives in the U.K. His older brother waited four months for a cat scan. He never made the wait. He had pancreatic cancer. Kevin, my friend, was, of course, heartbroken. Before that happens, he was quite a fan of universal healthcare and held it up as a model for us here. He doesn't do that anymore.

This subjective example is just that. But it gives me pause as I see the US moving closer to that model. That kind of wait here in the US would, of course never happen. Order a CAT scan today? You're being zapped by Thursday or even sooner.

I judge healthcare on how the weakest are treated, not on how quickly the wealthy can have their CAT scans. I can zap your example with an example of why our safety net is always so much better.

Fund for London doctor fighting for life after Vegas crash hits £100k in just two days | London Evening Standard

A British doctor, critically injured when hit by a lorry and dragged under it. He was treated but then the question of the bill for his life saving came about. The US may be moving towards the US model but thank god we are moving no nearer the US model where people have to have life saving treatment and then are utterly bankrupted to pay for it.

 

[zyzygy]

I judge healthcare on how the weakest are treated, not on how quickly the wealthy can have their CAT scans. I can zap your example with an example of why our safety net is always so much better.

Fund for London doctor fighting for life after Vegas crash hits £100k in just two days | London Evening Standard

A British doctor, critically injured when hit by a lorry and dragged under it. He was treated but then the question of the bill for his life saving came about. The US may be moving towards the US model but thank god we are moving no nearer the US model where people have to have life saving treatment and then are utterly bankrupted to pay for it.

That would never happen in Europe.

 

[jonny5]

And so? Fifty-two percent of all DISCRETIONARY Federal Expenditure in the US goes to only one agency - the Department of Defense!

I can spout figures too - what counts is the cogency of the text that should accompany them. "Discretionary" expenditure is the policy made, non-discretionary funding are the obligations (read debt) undertaken.

You are throwing numbers around as if they were stones ...
_____________________

Not sure how thats relevent. My figure had to do with how much Belgians pay in taxes. 50% of every dollar they generate. Compared to 21% in the US. Our defense budget is 3%. Healthcare is 6% (just federal)

 

[jonny5]

To boil it down for you.At the moment if your unemployment benefit is less than 12000 euros per year you pay no tax, above 12000 you pay 360 euros per year. Your medical insurance will cost you around 150 euros per year. A visit to your doctor will cost around 25 euros and you will get around 18 euros back from your ziekenkas, that's the name for medical insurance companies. I had a filling replaced at my dentist last week, it cos 75 euros and I'll get around 65 euros back. When I was being treated for leukemia I had to have regular blood tests and bone marrow punctures. The blood tests cost me 20 euros, the punctures 30, my insurance paid the rest. I suspect that it would have cost me a lot more in the USA.

Healthcare in Belgium | Europe-Cities

Belgium has shortest waiting time for healthcare in Europe | Focus on Belgium

"Belgian healthcare is especially praised for its accessibility and generosity. Belgium spends a lot of money on healthcare and the quality of public services is generally high. Patients who need to see a doctor in Europe will be treated most quickly in Belgium or Switzerland. In most cases, patients in Belgium will get to see a doctor that very same day. Cancer treatment starts, on average, less than 21 days after diagnosis. In many other countries, the waiting time is often much longer."

"People have to pay a certain amount of their medical bill themselves and they usually pay fees directly to their doctor or the hospital. They must submit their receipts for reimbursement and the money is then paid directly into the claimant’s bank account.

Most Belgians take out supplementary health insurance to cover the portion of their bill, which is not reimbursed. Many employers provide supplementary health insurance cover as an employment benefit.

The state fund covers most medical services including treatment by specialists, hospitalisation, prescriptions, pregnancy and childbirth and rehabilitation. Self-employed people are only protected for “major risks,” which include mental illness, tuberculosis, cancer, hereditary diseases, birth defects, most types of surgery and childbirth.

The Belgian system of reimbursement is complex. There are 18 categories of medical procedure and service and each one has its own reimbursement level, which can vary from no reimbursement to 100%. Some citizens like widows, orphans and those receiving certain public aid like the blind fall into a “preferred” category, which entitles them to a higher level of reimbursement. Usually though, for people who are not in a preferred group, 75% of the doctors fee is reimbursed."

Ok, but they are unemployed, thus their unemployment benefit is coming out of taxes they arent paying. So theyre paying taxes out of money they got from someone else working and paying taxes.

 

[yankintx]

Not talking about the US...... European big pharma are not exactly angels either.

No one said big pharamacies were angels, I lived in Europe, and no the big pharsmacy companies do not advertise, or own politicians to the extent they do in DC. Who are the largest Anti Cannsbis lobbiest, pharamcy companies, by and own our Senate, otherwise known as Americas House of Lords, term limits now!!

 

[chromium]

To boil it down for you.At the moment if your unemployment benefit is less than 12000 euros per year you pay no tax, above 12000 you pay 360 euros per year. Your medical insurance will cost you around 150 euros per year. A visit to your doctor will cost around 25 euros and you will get around 18 euros back from your ziekenkas, that's the name for medical insurance companies. I had a filling replaced at my dentist last week, it cos 75 euros and I'll get around 65 euros back. When I was being treated for leukemia I had to have regular blood tests and bone marrow punctures. The blood tests cost me 20 euros, the punctures 30, my insurance paid the rest. I suspect that it would have cost me a lot more in the USA.


"Belgian healthcare is especially praised for its accessibility and generosity. Belgium spends a lot of money on healthcare and the quality of public services is generally high. Patients who need to see a doctor in Europe will be treated most quickly in Belgium or Switzerland. In most cases, patients in Belgium will get to see a doctor that very same day. Cancer treatment starts, on average, less than 21 days after diagnosis. In many other countries, the waiting time is often much longer."

"People have to pay a certain amount of their medical bill themselves and they usually pay fees directly to their doctor or the hospital. They must submit their receipts for reimbursement and the money is then paid directly into the claimant’s bank account.

Most Belgians take out supplementary health insurance to cover the portion of their bill, which is not reimbursed. Many employers provide supplementary health insurance cover as an employment benefit.

The state fund covers most medical services including treatment by specialists, hospitalisation, prescriptions, pregnancy and childbirth and rehabilitation. Self-employed people are only protected for “major risks,” which include mental illness, tuberculosis, cancer, hereditary diseases, birth defects, most types of surgery and childbirth.

The Belgian system of reimbursement is complex. There are 18 categories of medical procedure and service and each one has its own reimbursement level, which can vary from no reimbursement to 100%. Some citizens like widows, orphans and those receiving certain public aid like the blind fall into a “preferred” category, which entitles them to a higher level of reimbursement. Usually though, for people who are not in a preferred group, 75% of the doctors fee is reimbursed."

All for-profit insurance in US has what's called "deductible" This means you pay that amount before insurance contributes *anything* This is on top of the actual cost of insurance. Most people who are young and healthy won't reach that point. Their insurance is only for emergencies. Only after the deductible, a % of costs is paid by insurance, until the "out of pocket maximum" is met. Then insurance pays it all. This is all only for covered treatment. Anything not covered you have to pay and doesn't count towards OOP/deduct. What's not covered? "Non essential treatment"

Oh, and you can only go to doctors that are "in network" which often means if you travel out of state you have to pay 100%, but even doctors in your town, you gotta look up which doctor will take your insurance

So say your income is $15080 (minimum wage) and you live in Texas. You would pay $4000/year for insurance plus $2250 before insurance will pay a dime. I mean that's only 41% of your entire income. After this point you'd pay 30% of medical costs up to $4900. This is reached by a 4 day hospital stay, or emergency surgery. Now you've coughed up 73% of your income and you literally don't have enough to pay your rent, let alone food, gas to get to work etc. This is how republicans want things and how they used to be in every state

Under obamacare, if you make under $16100 you're put on Medicaid, which is like the British model. It covers full cost for treatment. That's if you live in a non republican state though

Let's look at a more typical example, closer to the average income - $28000/yr. Now you'd be paying 40% of your income. Less insane but still excessive. Now under obamacare, you'd save $630 up front and the OOP is capped at $5450. This comes out to 31% of income.

So to answer your question, the typical American would have to pay ALL of your dental bill and up to $9000/yr. Even if they don't see any doctor, they will pay 9% of their income by law. Oh, and we also pay 3% for Medicare which is for the elderly. Whereas Belgians pay 2.5% for a system that reimburses 75% cost with no deductible. The British model, which covers 100% of costs, is only $2500/yr per person - *less than an American who gets 0 treatment* This is why America's system is so dire and in need of complete overhaul. Everyone gets sick. It's not like buying a boat to vacation with

 

[chromium]

So those against UHC... you are against insurance too right?

no that's why they oppose it. They throw around phrases like "socialized medicine" and "death panels" as if the process of getting sick is like putting off buying a new car for a year and as if insurance never denies coverage for essential treatment

Republicans who aren't mega-wealthy live in a fantasy land in this way

 

[zyzygy]

Ok, but they are unemployed, thus their unemployment benefit is coming out of taxes they arent paying. So theyre paying taxes out of money they got from someone else working and paying taxes.

No, they get back money that they paid in when they had a job.

 

[jonny5]

No, they get back some of the money that they paid in when they had a job.

According to the link above, much more than they paid in. So they work, pay avg 50% taxes, get healthcare. Lose their job, get unemployment benefit, and then pay more taxes on that. Sounds like a raw deal.

 

[jonny5]

no that's why they oppose it. They throw around phrases like "socialized medicine" and "death panels" as if the process of getting sick is like putting off buying a new car for a year and as if insurance never denies coverage for essential treatment

Republicans who aren't mega-wealthy live in a fantasy land in this way

Its called freedom. Insurer screws you over, you take your money else where (or sue them). Govt screws you over, tough.

 

[JANFU]

Still only research tests and the tests on the patient will continue but this looks very positive for all sufferers around the world. (Not to mention profits for sales in treatment)

Great news - now, should the drug be free or sold for profit? (Being from a country with Universal Healthcare I am very pro-free access to critical life saving treatments)

Both- 1 funds the other and more funds for research.

 

[zyzygy]

According to the link above, much more than they paid in. So they work, pay avg 50% taxes, get healthcare. Lose their job, get unemployment benefit, and then pay more taxes on that. Sounds like a raw deal.

It all depends on how long it takes to find another job.

 

[Baltim]

I still recommend comdoms for casual sex/sex outside a monogamous relationship where you're both sure you're both clean.

The new antibiotic resistant super gonorrhoea might not kill you but it'll make you wish you were dead.

 

[Lafayette]

THE TRUTH IS IN THE MIDDLE

Not sure how thats relevent. My figure had to do with how much Belgians pay in taxes. 50% of every dollar they generate. Compared to 21% in the US. Our defense budget is 3%. Healthcare is 6% (just federal)

You are showing (once again) the Wrong Data to make the wrong point about Defense Budgeting. If one looks at both the total of Discretionary plus Non-discretionary Spending then, yes, the DoD budget is only 3% of the total.

But that information is comparatively "not newsworthy" because Non-discretionary Spending is mostly the National Debt!

What is relevant and newsworthy is its relation to Discretionary Budgeting (meaning that which constitutes policy as decided by the PotUS and approved by Congress after negotiations), and with such scrutiny the Defense Budget as a percentage of total is more like 52%.

Typical misrepresentation of the facts by the Rabidly Right - not that different from the Looney Left - which is why the truth is more likely somewhere in the Middle.

But given all the media "hoopla", the truth worth knowing is always found in murky policy detail - which is a place neither politicians nor news reporters like to go. And why?

Because they are driven by "sensation" - and "relevancy" is never very interesting to the general public ...
_________________

 

[Lafayette]

According to the link above, much more than they paid in. So they work, pay avg 50% taxes, get healthcare. Lose their job, get unemployment benefit, and then pay more taxes on that. Sounds like a raw deal.

Oh come off it! You are making ludicrous the life of most middle-income workers (the median income of which is $52K yearly).

We cannot all obtain a family total income beyond $110K a year and benefit from a flat-rate tax of ONLY 30% (if even that!)

Which is an income level break-point that most postsecondary graduates of a two-year or four-year schooling can and do easily attain!
_________________

 

[Northern Light]

If a cure for HIV were discovered it would be difficult to suppress it, and the activism for widespread implementation would be strong.

You can't really compare this to cancer. The infected HIV population is not that high by comparison. Not saying that curing HIV isn't important but helping eradicate HIV would not really cut into the profit margins of big pharma. They weren't that gung ho about looking for a cure in the first place, hence the plague years in the 80's and early 90's.

Keep in mind that HIV drugs are most expensive in the United States thanks to its laws which protect big pharma. In other countries it's not that expensive.