History is nothing more than the struggle between freedom and govt?

[James972]

How does one agree with both Plato and Aristotle when Aristotle, Plato's student, disagreed with some of Plato's thoughts on governance?

Plato was for govt and Aristotle was for freedom, Democrats are for govt and Republicans are from freedom. Do you agree that freedom versus govt is the central issue in human history?

 

[Somerville]

Plato was for govt and Aristotle was for freedom, Democrats are for govt and Republicans are from freedom. Do you agree that freedom versus govt is the central issue in human history?

jimmie, you haven't a frikkin' clue about history. Nor do you actually understand the complexity of human societies which, when combined with a failure to comprehend generally accepted definitions of words in common usage, means that a conversation in which both sides may learn, is not possible.

 

[James972]

jimmie, you haven't a frikkin' clue about history. Nor do you actually understand the complexity of human societies which, when combined with a failure to comprehend generally accepted definitions of words in common usage, means that a conversation in which both sides may learn, is not possible.

so you think Plato and Aristotle were wrong? So what is the major issue in human history? you think it is coincidence that Plato and Democrats were/are for govt and Aristotle/Republicans are for freedom? Sorry to rock your world.


Why Aristotle was the first conservative - The Rebel
https://www.therebel.media/why_aristotle_was_the_first_conservative
Jan 11, 2016 - So what did the first conservative, Aristotle, think? Aristotle was taught by Plato, but like many students since, he turned from the Dark Side. Unlike liberals, conservatives do not believe that human nature is fundamentally good.

 

[Tigerace117]

Plato was for govt and Aristotle was for freedom, Democrats are for govt and Republicans are from freedom. Do you agree that freedom versus govt is the central issue in human history?

So in other words you think Republicans want the US to become like Somalia circa 1993, with no government and utter chaos?

 

[Quag]

American intellectuals argue that history is a straight line from Aristotle to Jefferson. Aristotle invented the idea of freedom from liberal govt and finally it grew big enough that a county (the USA) could be founded (with Jefferson's help) on the idea. When we study history and think about history this is what should concern us, primarily. Can anyone disagree?

You dont know squat about history

 

[Quag]

jimmie, you haven't a frikkin' clue about history. Nor do you actually understand the complexity of human societies which, when combined with a failure to comprehend generally accepted definitions of words in common usage, means that a conversation in which both sides may learn, is not possible.

James doesn't want to learn he wants to indoctrinate people with the same rubbish he has been indoctrinated with by his cult leader.

 

[James972]

So in other words you think Republicans want the US to become like Somalia circa 1993, with no government and utter chaos?

Jefferson and our Founders were obviously not an anarchist??

 

[James972]

You dont know squat about history

of course if true the typical liberal rather than call names would say where the problem with Plato/ Aristotle, Democrat/Republican dichotomy is. I wonder why you forgot?

 

[James972]

James doesn't want to learn he wants to indoctrinate people with the same rubbish he has been indoctrinated with by his cult leader.

if the typical liberal thinks libertarianism is incorrect why is he so afraid to explain why?

 

[Quag]

of course if true the typical liberal rather than call names would say where the problem with Plato/ Aristotle, Democrat/Republican dichotomy is. I wonder why you forgot?

Im not a liberal and you know squat about history

 

[Quag]

if the typical liberal thinks libertarianism is incorrect why is he so afraid to explain why?

Im not a liberal and you are one of the most uneducated posters on this forum
Willful ignorance and lack of the ability to reason is hallmarks of the extreme religious zealot.

 

[James972]

Im not a liberal and you are one of the most uneducated posters on this forum
Willful ignorance and lack of the ability to reason is hallmarks of the extreme religious zealot.

if the typical liberal thinks libertarianism is uneducated or incorrect why is he so afraid to explain why? Why instead does name calling seem meaningful to him?

 

[Quag]

if the typical liberal thinks libertarianism is uneducated or incorrect why is he so afraid to explain why? Why instead does name calling seem meaningful to him?

Already have and you have proven immune to learning.
Why are you so afraid to actually learn anything?

 

[Somerville]

if the typical liberal thinks libertarianism is uneducated or incorrect why is he so afraid to explain why? Why instead does name calling seem meaningful to him?

As you are the one, who time and time again has been corrected as to the 'interesting' comments you have made while refusing to post anything more than a two or three sentence comment, it is up to you to offer some justification for your ideology. The problem I see is your sheer and utter ignorance of history.

Instead of demanding others defend their positions and beliefs, you should lay out yours in some detail, providing readers with your specific understanding of certain words and philosophies. THEN, there might be a rational conversation - maybe.

 

[radcen]

American intellectuals argue that history is a straight line from Aristotle to Jefferson. Aristotle invented the idea of freedom from liberal govt and finally it grew big enough that a county (the USA) could be founded (with Jefferson's help) on the idea. When we study history and think about history this is what should concern us, primarily. Can anyone disagree?

Some people overthink things. History is just a (preferably) thoroughly accurate noting of what happened in the past. Done properly, it is not biased or slanted. It just is.

 

[Tigerace117]

Jefferson and our Founders were obviously not an anarchist??

The founders believed in a government capable of protecting the rights of the citizen, which is why they scrapped the very very weak government system we had.

 

[Somerville]

The founders believed in a government capable of protecting the rights of the citizen, which is why they scrapped the very very weak government system we had.

We must never forget just which demographic was seen as the citizens, by the founders of this country.

 

[Tigerace117]

We must never forget just which demographic was seen as the citizens, by the founders of this country.

We must also remember that for all their flaws the founders were very far sighted men, especially for their day and age, and acted accordingly.

 

[Somerville]

We must also remember that for all their flaws the founders were very far sighted men, especially for their day and age, and acted accordingly.

True.

Funny how their commentary at the time of creating the Constitution is often ignored today, with too many attempting to justify their own views by quote mining those original documents.

 

[Tigerace117]

True.

Funny how their commentary at the time of creating the Constitution is often ignored today, with too many attempting to justify their own views by quote mining those original documents.

For example, people like to bring up the whole "slaves counting as 3/5ths of a person" issue but don't seem to realize that that was done in an attempt to limit the power of slaveholders in order to get rid of slavery down the line.

The fact that many prominent founders owned slaves didn't stop them from realizing that it was bad for the country and working against it in what ways they could.

That kind of thinking is something I think we've largely lost in this day and age.

 

[James972]

The fact that many prominent founders owned slaves didn't stop them from realizing that it was bad for the country and working against it in what ways they could.

yes great point! Jefferson's first draft of Declaration actually had more in it about the evils of slavery than the evils of taxes. Who among us would have done as well if born the 1000th generation owning slaves? It was as normal as the sun at the time.

 

[Tigerace117]

yes great point! Jefferson's first draft of Declaration actually had more in it about the evils of slavery than the evils of taxes. Who among us would have done as well if born the 1000th generation owning slaves? It was as normal as the sun at the time.

Actually, it wasn’t “normal as the sun”. There was already a very strong abolitionist movement across Western Europe, one which succeed in ending slavery there well before the US finally crushed slavery here.

 

[James972]

Actually, it wasn’t “normal as the sun”. There was already a very strong abolitionist movement across Western Europe, one which succeed in ending slavery there well before the US finally crushed slavery here.

1) there was strong abolition movement everywhere on earth
2) how could it have been well when it existed for 1000's of years and ended at about the same time in Europe and US.

 

[Nickyjo]

if the typical liberal thinks libertarianism is incorrect why is he so afraid to explain why?

Let me try, tho I may be mischaracterizing libertarianism: if slavery is not prohibited, it will likely exist; if there are no regulations on child labor, kids will work in coal mines; if there are no rules on pesticides, farm workers will be sprayed by poison while they are working (farm workers told me about this when I interviewed them), if there is no prohibition on housing discrimination, black people will be denied housing, if there is no min wage, people will be paid 30cents an hour.

Where have you been? This has been explained ad nauseam. The libertarian vision is a beautiful one, akin to the Marxist one of the “withering away of the state.” Won’t happen. Still, Paul Ryan’s wet dreams of an Ayn Rand future persist. Dream on, Paulie.

 

[James972]

Let me try, tho I may be mischaracterizing libertarianism: if slavery is not prohibited, it will likely exist;

insane of course. your assumption is that those in human history empowered to prohibit things ( Hitler Stalin Mao for example) will know better than those not empowered to prohibit things. America is greatest in human history because Founders thought people knew better. Do you understand?