Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.

[SheWolf]

Islam had a better record on allowing freedom of religious expression than Christendom for centuries, and, as a result, was a more inviting civilization for persecuted minorities, such as Jews.

Islam has within it a profound argument against natural racism that is endemic in mankind (though, I think, it also promotes the arab ethnicity) that has had an incredible leveling effect across multiple cultures.

Islam has systematized charity and caring for the impoverished, with a special emphasis on orphans, across vast swathes of the world, and across cultures that previously cared much less if at all about the less fortunate.

Islam has within it a rich doctrinal history that is fascinating to study (though I think that the constraining of ijtihad after the full development of the four major schools of Sunni islam was, I think, unfortunate, and I would probably say that the Shia got the better end of that one)

etc. so on and so forth. There is plenty positive to say about Islam, which doesn't mean that one can only say positive things about Islam. Play victim elsewhere.



I do indeed respect Judaism (I respect Islam) - I try to read about and study both, and my shelves include books by both Judaic and Islamic scholars. That does not stop me from believing in Christ or in the tenets of Christianity.



:shrug: I haven't argued that it is. YOU attempted to hold up Islam and Judaism as some sort of corrective for the Christian tendency to focus on extending universal human equality, even to the vulnerable and unprivileged, as though their lesser tendency to do so was somehow a critique of Christianity. YOU are the one who decided to bring this up, you simply didn't like that it didn't turn out to be as good a point for your side of this discussion as you thought it was.

I am not playing victim. I already know you don't care about other peoples feelings. You said Muslims and Jews don't care about life or human rights as much as Christians. You said that.

That makes no sense to me.

 

[SheWolf]

I haven't experience a revelation in this entire thread. Mostly it's been me getting frustrated with your refusing to respond directly to a point.



Like this, for example. I never stated that you were dehumanizing unborn life. I stated that when we as a society begin to dehumanize categories of humans, we are doing so because we wish to make it easier to abuse their rights. You concurred with this judgement (after several pages), but don't like the fact that it applies to the abortion debate because you are more comfortable with abusing the rights of the unborn than you are with abusing the rights of the many other groups in history that have been dehumanized as a prelude to or means of enabling their abuse.



And I keep ignoring you, because this is yet another example of your continual attempts in this thread to turn the debate to something else. Bait is Bait. I'm not a Trump fan and I'll wager I spent more time than you did back in 2015/2016 arguing that he was an abusive and uncouth unworthy representative of people who profess the Christian faith, but attempts to shift the conversation to "But Trump Is A Bad Man" aren't exactly compelling in a question of whether or not


A) (as per the OP) Highly religious couples do, in fact, have more rewarding sex lives than their more secular counterparts.
or
B) your perception of Christian approaches to sexuality are accurate representations of its teachings.
or
C) whether we do, in fact, dehumanize segments of the human population when we declare them to be "lesser", to be "not really people", or to be "parasites".

I am comfortable with abusing the rights of the unborn?

It's not bait when your fundamental belief system on human rights only applies to abortion.

 

[cpwill]

I am comfortable with abusing the rights of the unborn?

I would say you are clearly more comfortable with it, given your continual insistence that you find discussion of the use of dehumanizing language to justify abusing identified segments of humanity more off-putting when it comes to the area you find more justifiable. I don't know if I would apply the flat definition of "comfortable", and, in fact, would be hesitant to do so, given your repeated insistence (incorrectly, I believe) that Muslims find abortion to be flatly wrong (when, in fact, there is disagreement within Islam about this, and only after the four month mark does Islamic jurisprudence actually come to consensus of the morality of abortion).

It's not bait when your fundamental belief system on human rights only applies to abortion.

Given your propensity to raise strawmen and your inability to accept that I can see both positive and negative aspects of Islamic culture, I'm gonna go ahead and say, yeah, you don't know my fundamental belief system very well at all.

And, yeah. Attempting to shift the conversation to Trump is bait. He's a bad person - agreed.

 

[Frigidweirdo]

I am not playing victim. I already know you don't care about other peoples feelings. You said Muslims and Jews don't care about life or human rights as much as Christians. You said that.

That makes no sense to me.

A list of the countries with the highest murder rates shows the top 35 or more are Christian countries.

 

[SheWolf]

I honestly would have no idea. It could be? I would say that people born into horrific conditions have come out of it with beautiful stories before... but also that human societies have a history of killing off its least productive members when under stress (there is some interesting literature out there, for example, about the tendency of "witch scares" to overlap with resource constraints, suggesting that sometimes societies reacted to perceived shortage by finding a reason to kill off older women who they perhaps felt represented economic drags).

I would say that not killing another human being in the midst of a great conflagration of death is probably better than the alternative. Pulling a child out of collapsed or burning building in which many others have died is a good. Saving one woman from being trafficked into horrific sex slavery, despite the continued flow, is a good.

I would be very hesitant about the degree to which anyone else is competent enough to decide that another's life is not worth living, and they should therefore be killed for their own good. That strikes me as insanely narcissistic and an incredibly cruel example of hubris.

I find you're response really weird, because I wasn't asking about if the baby should be aborted or not. I just asking how you felt about a life being brought into the actual Holocaust, and if you would consider that some kind of miracle or moment of beauty.

Based on your response, it kind of sounds like you think abortion is worse than the Holocaust because it abortion is direct killing, but living and struggling to survive the Holocaust isn't direct killing until it is direct killing.

 

[cpwill]

A list of the countries with the highest murder rates shows the top 35 or more are Christian countries.

Looks like you misspelled "Sub-Saharan African".

Countries by intentional homicide rate:


Burundi Africa Eastern Africa 6.02 635 2016 CTS/SDG
Comoros Africa Eastern Africa 7.70 60 2015 WHO Estimate
Djibouti Africa Eastern Africa 6.48 60 2015 WHO Estimate
Eritrea Africa Eastern Africa 8.04 390 2015 WHO Estimate
Ethiopia Africa Eastern Africa 7.56 7,552 2015 WHO Estimate
Kenya Africa Eastern Africa 4.87 2,363 2016 CTS
Madagascar Africa Eastern Africa 7.69 1,863 2015 WHO Estimate
Malawi Africa Eastern Africa 1.73 279 2012 NP
Mauritius Africa Eastern Africa 1.82 23 2016 UNSDC/CTS/NSO
Mayotte Africa Eastern Africa 5.93 12 2009 NP
Mozambique Africa Eastern Africa 3.40 849 2011 WHO/SDG
Réunion Africa Eastern Africa 1.82 15 2009 NP
Rwanda Africa Eastern Africa 2.52 293 2015 NSO
Seychelles Africa Eastern Africa 12.74 12 2016 INTP/NSO
Somalia Africa Eastern Africa 4.31 599 2015 WHO Estimate
South Sudan Africa Eastern Africa 13.90 1,504 2012 NP
Uganda Africa Eastern Africa 11.52 4,473 2014 CTS/NP
Tanzania Africa Eastern Africa 6.95 3,746 2015 INTP/CTS
Zambia Africa Eastern Africa 5.30 853 2015 UNSDC/WHO/NP
Zimbabwe Africa Eastern Africa 6.67 981 2012 WHO
Angola Africa Middle Africa 4.85 1,217 2012 NSO
Cameroon Africa Middle Africa 4.17 880 2012 NSO/SDG
Central African Republic Africa Middle Africa 19.76 913 2016 CTS
Chad Africa Middle Africa 9.04 1,266 2015 WHO Estimate
Congo Africa Middle Africa 9.32 466 2015 WHO Estimate

 

[SheWolf]

I would say you are clearly more comfortable with it, given your continual insistence that you find discussion of the use of dehumanizing language to justify abusing identified segments of humanity more off-putting when it comes to the area you find more justifiable.

Now you're flat out making stuff up. I said nothing of such in this thread. Maybe you have me confused with somebody else, because I also assure, I have never argued anything like that in this thread.

I don't know if I would apply the flat definition of "comfortable", and, in fact, would be hesitant to do so, given your repeated insistence (incorrectly, I believe) that Muslims find abortion to be flatly wrong (when, in fact, there is disagreement within Islam about this, and only after the four month mark does Islamic jurisprudence actually come to consensus of the morality of abortion).

Funny, because I wasn't' taught that... :roll:

Given your propensity to raise strawmen and your inability to accept that I can see both positive and negative aspects of Islamic culture, I'm gonna go ahead and say, yeah, you don't know my fundamental belief system very well at all.

And, yeah. Attempting to shift the conversation to Trump is bait. He's a bad person - agreed.

Keep trying to attack me personally. I know you don't care about my feelings, but I am not going to let you troll me either. I don't care about your feelings either, but I do care about honestly.

You really have a huge problem with projection

 

[cpwill]

I find you're response really weird, because I wasn't asking about if the baby should be aborted or not. I just asking how you felt about a life being brought into the actual Holocaust, and if you would consider that some kind of miracle or moment of beauty.

I would say that all human life is a product of God, but that "miracles" are violations of natural laws by a God outside them. We think of babies as "miracles", because we are trying to reach for a term that means "amazing and wonderful", but it's a misnomer. I wouldn't say that a baby born through sexual reproduction (or artificial insemenation, etc.) can be considered accurately to be a "miracle".

A moment of beauty? As I said - it might be. It might not. People have been born in horrific conditions throughout human history, and I'd imagine that the range of human horror and beauty and pain and love and virtue and vice has attended them all.

Based on your response, it kind of sounds like you think abortion is worse than the Holocaust because it abortion is direct killing, but living and struggling to survive the Holocaust isn't direct killing until it is direct killing.

The Holocaust was indeed direct killing. I pointed out that not killing innocents is better than killing innocents, and that saving innocents in context in which other innocents die is better than not doing so.

 

[SheWolf]

The Holocaust was indeed direct killing. I pointed out that not killing innocents is better than killing innocents, and that saving innocents in context in which other innocents die is better than not doing so.

No, the Holocaust wasn't direct killing.

 

[cpwill]

Now you're flat out making stuff up. I said nothing of such in this thread.....You really have a huge problem with projection

:lol: now that's an ironic accusation, given the past few pages.

Maybe you have me confused with somebody else, because I also assure, I have never argued anything like that in this thread.

You haven't stated repeatedly that you find comparisons of the dehumanization of the unborn with dehumanization of past populations that have been abused (such as jews in germany, or african's in the united states) to be off-putting?

I realize English may not be a first language for you, and so you may not be fully able to accurately represent a nuanced opinion as well as you'd like, but that is definitely what you have said in this thread.

Funny, because I wasn't' taught that... :roll:

Interesting. Do you need me to start citing for you the relevant Hadith and resulting Sunni school positions?

Keep trying to attack me personally.

If I wanted to attack you personally, I'd attack you personally. Pointing out that you have raised a series of strawmen in this discussion and demonstrated that you do not understand my worldview very well isn't a personal attack, it's an apt description of the information available in this thread. As I said when you tried to claim that I was just a big meanie who couldn't say anything nice about Islam: Play victim elsewhere. It's completely unimpressive.

I know you don't care about my feelings, but I am not going to let you troll me either.

What, you mean like if I were to try to constantly steer the conversation to Islamic cultures that normalize child-rape, or, say, talking about how I think Trump and his followers are bad? That kind of trolling - wherein I attempt to bring in an unrelated but highly emotively charged tangent in order to shift the conversation away from a point you are making?

I don't care about your feelings either, but I do care about honestly.

Another thing we agree on, though I would say I have a modicum of care for your feelings.

 

[Frigidweirdo]

Looks like you misspelled "Sub-Saharan African".

Countries by intentional homicide rate:


Burundi Africa Eastern Africa 6.02 635 2016 CTS/SDG
Comoros Africa Eastern Africa 7.70 60 2015 WHO Estimate
Djibouti Africa Eastern Africa 6.48 60 2015 WHO Estimate
Eritrea Africa Eastern Africa 8.04 390 2015 WHO Estimate
Ethiopia Africa Eastern Africa 7.56 7,552 2015 WHO Estimate
Kenya Africa Eastern Africa 4.87 2,363 2016 CTS
Madagascar Africa Eastern Africa 7.69 1,863 2015 WHO Estimate
Malawi Africa Eastern Africa 1.73 279 2012 NP
Mauritius Africa Eastern Africa 1.82 23 2016 UNSDC/CTS/NSO
Mayotte Africa Eastern Africa 5.93 12 2009 NP
Mozambique Africa Eastern Africa 3.40 849 2011 WHO/SDG
Réunion Africa Eastern Africa 1.82 15 2009 NP
Rwanda Africa Eastern Africa 2.52 293 2015 NSO
Seychelles Africa Eastern Africa 12.74 12 2016 INTP/NSO
Somalia Africa Eastern Africa 4.31 599 2015 WHO Estimate
South Sudan Africa Eastern Africa 13.90 1,504 2012 NP
Uganda Africa Eastern Africa 11.52 4,473 2014 CTS/NP
Tanzania Africa Eastern Africa 6.95 3,746 2015 INTP/CTS
Zambia Africa Eastern Africa 5.30 853 2015 UNSDC/WHO/NP
Zimbabwe Africa Eastern Africa 6.67 981 2012 WHO
Angola Africa Middle Africa 4.85 1,217 2012 NSO
Cameroon Africa Middle Africa 4.17 880 2012 NSO/SDG
Central African Republic Africa Middle Africa 19.76 913 2016 CTS
Chad Africa Middle Africa 9.04 1,266 2015 WHO Estimate
Congo Africa Middle Africa 9.32 466 2015 WHO Estimate

Sometimes I wonder whether people actually bother to read what I write. Certainly you didn't.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

19 of the top 25 countries are in the Americas. Mali at 41 is the first country which isn't Christian.

In Sub Saharan Africa there are Zambia, Kenya, Mozambique, Rwanda, Mauritius, Reunion, Malawi, Angola, Cameroon, Sao Tome and Principe, Equatorial Guinea, Sudan, Niger, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Ghana, Burkina Faso, which have murder rates lower than the US.

 

[cpwill]

No, the Holocaust wasn't direct killing.

:raises eyebrow:

Uh. I thought you said you'd studied the Holocaust.

In addition to starvation, the Nazis shot people en masse, and gassed them in masse. They also killed them as part of medical experimentation, so on, and so forth.

The Nazis killed millions of people in gas vans or in stationary gas chambers. The victims were people with disabilities and later Jews and other prisoners. The vast majority of those killed by gassing were Jews.

In German-occupied Europe during World War II, the killing center was a facility established exclusively or primarily for the assembly-line style mass murder of human beings. Those few prisoners who were selected to survive, temporarily, were deployed in some fashion in support of this primary function. The killing centers are sometimes referred to as "extermination camps" or "death camps."... German SS and police murdered nearly 2,700,000 Jews in the killing centers either by asphyxiation with poison gas or by shooting.

...Operation Reinhard (Einsatz Reinhard) became the code name for the German plan to murder the approximately two million Jews residing in the so-called Generalgouvernement (Government General). The Generalgouvernement was that part of German-occupied Poland not directly annexed to Germany, attached to German East Prussia, or incorporated into the German-occupied Soviet Union. To implement “Operation Reinhard,” the SS and police constructed three killing centers: Belzec and Sobibor in Lublin District, and Treblinka II in Warsaw District. SS and police officials from the staff of the SS and Police Leader in Lublin managed the Operation Reinhard killing centers. Police auxiliaries trained at a special camp in District Lublin, the Trawniki training camp, guarded them and facilitated the murder operations.

Belzec began operations in March 1942, concurrent with the deportations of the Jews from Lublin and Lwów (L'viv). Sobibor began its operations in May 1942, with the deportation of Lublin District Jews from rural regions. Treblinka II began operations in July 1942, concurrent with the major deportation of Warsaw Jews in summer 1942.

The victims of the Operation Reinhard killing centers included Polish, German, Austrian, Dutch, French, Czech, and Slovak Jews as well as Roma (Gypsies), Soviet prisoners of war, and Poles. The SS and police killed the majority of prisoners deported to the Operation Reinhard killing centers by locking them in stationary gas chambers into which truck engines pumped deadly carbon monoxide gas. A minority of prisoners were killed by shooting.....

The Holocaust definitely featured mass direct killing.

 

[cpwill]

Sometimes I wonder whether people actually bother to read what I write. Certainly you didn't.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

19 of the top 25 countries are in the Americas. Mali at 41 is the first country which isn't Christian.

In Sub Saharan Africa there are Zambia, Kenya, Mozambique, Rwanda, Mauritius, Reunion, Malawi, Angola, Cameroon, Sao Tome and Principe, Equatorial Guinea, Sudan, Niger, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Ghana, Burkina Faso, which have murder rates lower than the US.

Dude, I literally copy/pasted the chart at the link you get if you click that hyperlink and then click "by country".

Where I screwed up was not adjusting the chart, simply running with it as though it were already in rate order. That's a solid my bad.

Looking at this, I am also gonna say that this chart doesn't seem to be counting State Murders, or ongoing conflicts. Certainly Syria/Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., belong higher in this club. Mexico has some rough parts, but it's not Syria.

 

[Frigidweirdo]

Dude, I literally copy/pasted the chart at the link you get if you click that hyperlink and then click "by country".

Where I screwed up was not adjusting the chart, simply running with it as though it were already in rate order. That's a solid my bad.

Looking at this, I am also gonna say that this chart doesn't seem to be counting State Murders, or ongoing conflicts. Certainly Syria/Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., belong higher in this club. Mexico has some rough parts, but it's not Syria.

Yes, you posted part of Africa. Not the top ten murder countries.

The problem with statistics is that they're statistics. A murder is a only a murder when it's counted as a murder. For example, Somalia is given a lower murder rate than the US. Which it may well have. But perhaps more people die, because is it murder if you're killed and no one counts it?

As for Syria, well, if a US soldier kills someone on the authority of the US govt, is it murder? No, it's not. So the same applies to Syria. But then again I didn't mention Mexico, Syria or Afghanistan.

 

[cpwill]

Yes, you posted part of Africa. Not the top ten murder countries.

Yup - that's why I labeled it a screw up

The problem with statistics is that they're statistics. A murder is a only a murder when it's counted as a murder. For example, Somalia is given a lower murder rate than the US. Which it may well have. But perhaps more people die, because is it murder if you're killed and no one counts it?

Yup. IIRC, at one point one of the Nordic country's reported rape statistics shot up; but the primary driver was an increase in the ease of reporting, vice actual incidence. In the U.S., similarly, confusion over the growth (or lack thereof) in incidence of racial incidents has been tied to mistaking reporting v occurrence.

As for Syria, well, if a US soldier kills someone on the authority of the US govt, is it murder? No, it's not. So the same applies to Syria.

Sure - but that would mean that things like government driven systematic extermination programs don't count?

Okay, but that means I'm going to be a lot less willing to accept the stat as telling us something about the inherent violence of respective cultures.

 

[SheWolf]

:raises eyebrow:

Uh. I thought you said you'd studied the Holocaust.

In addition to starvation, the Nazis shot people en masse, and gassed them in masse. They also killed them as part of medical experimentation, so on, and so forth.

The Nazis killed millions of people in gas vans or in stationary gas chambers. The victims were people with disabilities and later Jews and other prisoners. The vast majority of those killed by gassing were Jews.

In German-occupied Europe during World War II, the killing center was a facility established exclusively or primarily for the assembly-line style mass murder of human beings. Those few prisoners who were selected to survive, temporarily, were deployed in some fashion in support of this primary function. The killing centers are sometimes referred to as "extermination camps" or "death camps."... German SS and police murdered nearly 2,700,000 Jews in the killing centers either by asphyxiation with poison gas or by shooting.



The Holocaust definitely featured mass direct killing.

It wasn't mass killings all the time. The Holocaust also happened in stages, but at it's height, there was a sorting process for immediate murder and other people worked force labor, others went to medical experiments, others to work in the homes for top Nazis like slaves, and so on. The Holocaust wasn't immediate and direct killing.

Do you think slavery was also a simple matter of murder?

 

[cpwill]

It wasn't mass killings all the time.

That is correct and I haven't argued that it was. It definitely, however, as outlined, did feature sustained, mass, direct killings of millions of people.

So, statements like this:

The Holocaust wasn't immediate and direct killing.

Are not entirely accurate, since the Holocaust was those things, and other things as well (such as camps where people were starved and/or worked to death instead) as well.

Do you think slavery was also a simple matter of murder?

A matter only of murder? Nope.

 

[Frigidweirdo]

Yup - that's why I labeled it a screw up



Yup. IIRC, at one point one of the Nordic country's reported rape statistics shot up; but the primary driver was an increase in the ease of reporting, vice actual incidence. In the U.S., similarly, confusion over the growth (or lack thereof) in incidence of racial incidents has been tied to mistaking reporting v occurrence.



Sure - but that would mean that things like government driven systematic extermination programs don't count?

Okay, but that means I'm going to be a lot less willing to accept the stat as telling us something about the inherent violence of respective cultures.

However the statistics are, we can kind of see patterns.

Yes, southern Africa has a high rate of murders. I traveled around southern Africa and it scared the **** out of me. I literally got to the point where I was supposed to go to Madagascar and I couldn't cope with it. The thought that I'd be stuck there for a month was scary.

But then again people who go to countries like Honduras and Venezuela, know there's a lot of murder there.

I've been to various countries in sub Saharan Africa with lower murder rates than the US, and felt safer in a large city there than in the US. Maputo in Mozambique, the only fear was of the police. In Lusaka, Zambia I walked everywhere, the same as in Harare in Zimbabwe. The worst thing that happened to me was I did my back in.

 

[cpwill]

However the statistics are, we can kind of see patterns.

Yes, southern Africa has a high rate of murders. I traveled around southern Africa and it scared the **** out of me. I literally got to the point where I was supposed to go to Madagascar and I couldn't cope with it. The thought that I'd be stuck there for a month was scary.

But then again people who go to countries like Honduras and Venezuela, know there's a lot of murder there.

I've been to various countries in sub Saharan Africa with lower murder rates than the US, and felt safer in a large city there than in the US. Maputo in Mozambique, the only fear was of the police. In Lusaka, Zambia I walked everywhere, the same as in Harare in Zimbabwe. The worst thing that happened to me was I did my back in.

If the patterns are obfuscated by exclusion of major data sets, I think the conclusions we can draw from them are, at best, problematic and limited.

That being said, I've not gotten to travel much around sub-saharan Africa, though I don't know why you'd be afraid to go to Madagascar; if zoo animals from New York can succeed there, I'm sure anyone can (sorry, sorry, I promise that's ironically self-deprecating, but I couldn't stop myself). I have a bunch of friends that have traveled East Africa, but that may be a different story.

 

[Frigidweirdo]

If the patterns are obfuscated by exclusion of major data sets, I think the conclusions we can draw from them are, at best, problematic and limited.

That being said, I've not gotten to travel much around sub-saharan Africa, though I don't know why you'd be afraid to go to Madagascar; if zoo animals from New York can succeed there, I'm sure anyone can (sorry, sorry, I promise that's ironically self-deprecating, but I couldn't stop myself). I have a bunch of friends that have traveled East Africa, but that may be a different story.

The problems with Madagascar are that the capital city is kind of crime ridden, and there's another place which is bad. The issue is, when you've spend two months watching your every step, you get paranoid, and then thinking you'd be stuck on an island, it gets worse. Also I was a bit drained of traveling.

The issue here though is that Christian countries are far more dangerous than say, Muslim countries, if there's no armed conflict going on. Mostly because Muslims will deal with crime far more harshly, but also perhaps because Christianity is very forgiving. The Mafia in southern Italy and them being strong Catholics springs to mind.

In South East Asia, for example, the worst murder rate is the Philippines, the only Christian country in the region.

 

[cpwill]

The problems with Madagascar are that the capital city is kind of crime ridden, and there's another place which is bad. The issue is, when you've spend two months watching your every step, you get paranoid,

See, but, if people are actually trying to kill you, is it paranoia? Or healthy respect for the fact that literally everything is dangerous and nothing can be trusted?

The issue here though is that Christian countries are far more dangerous than say, Muslim countries, if there's no armed conflict going on.

Is that like saying that areas with high murder rates are actually quite safe compared to others, if you don't count the murder?

Mostly because Muslims will deal with crime far more harshly, but also perhaps because Christianity is very forgiving.

That's an interesting claim; can you elaborate on that dynamic?

In South East Asia, for example, the worst murder rate is the Philippines, the only Christian country in the region.

I have been to the Philippines a couple of times. I've walked around Manilla alone, at night, and never felt - even paranoid - that I was in danger. The same cannot be said of the Muslim dominated South, which hosts several terrorist groups whose violence I suppose conveniently doesn't count on the chart.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[Frigidweirdo]

See, but, if people are actually trying to kill you, is it paranoia? Or healthy respect for the fact that literally everything is dangerous and nothing can be trusted?




Is that like saying that areas with high murder rates are actually quite safe compared to others, if you don't count the murder?




That's an interesting claim; can you elaborate on that dynamic?




I have been to the Philippines a couple of times. I've walked around Manilla alone, at night, and never felt - even paranoid - that I was in danger. The same cannot be said of the Muslim dominated South, which hosts several terrorist groups whose violence I suppose conveniently doesn't count on the chart.

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Can I elaborate on Muslims being brutal in their dealing with criminals.

The World's Most Barbaric Punishments

"In 2003 an Indian citizen working in Saudi Arabia took part in a brawl, wounding a man's eye. Puthan Veettil Abd ul-Latif Noushad was eventually sentenced, in 2005, to have his own right eye gouged out as punishment. It was, according to charity Human Rights Watch, the third eye-gouging sentence handed down within a year. "

"Right hands have been cut off at the wrist as punishment for theft in Sharia-controlled areas of Nigeria and in Saudi Arabia. "

"Recent figures suggest that about 100 people per year are beheaded in Saudi Arabia."

"Flogging, or lashing with a whip or strap, is widespread. It is used in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, "

"Convicted of adultery, 43-year-old Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani narrowly escaped being stoned to death in Iran this week."

I mean, Muslim countries are harsh.

In the Philippines I've only been to Luzon and Manila was by far and away the most dangerous place I went to. However the Philippines' murder rate is about double that of the US.

Yes, in the south in Muslim controlled places there's violence because of how Muslims have been treated there and they're fighting back. It's something different.

 

[SheWolf]

That is correct and I haven't argued that it was. It definitely, however, as outlined, did feature sustained, mass, direct killings of millions of people.

So, statements like this:



Are not entirely accurate, since the Holocaust was those things, and other things as well (such as camps where people were starved and/or worked to death instead) as well.



A matter only of murder? Nope.

Ok, so now you admit that the Holocaust was not immediate death for many people. Upon arriving at the camps, there was a sorting process, and I don't believe the majority of the population would have went to immediate death. And you still said what you said about abortion.

And since you view abortion as murder and ending a life, it appears that you think abortion is worse than the Holocaust.

 

[SheWolf]

If the patterns are obfuscated by exclusion of major data sets, I think the conclusions we can draw from them are, at best, problematic and limited.

That being said, I've not gotten to travel much around sub-saharan Africa, though I don't know why you'd be afraid to go to Madagascar; if zoo animals from New York can succeed there, I'm sure anyone can (sorry, sorry, I promise that's ironically self-deprecating, but I couldn't stop myself). I have a bunch of friends that have traveled East Africa, but that may be a different story.

What a ridiculous statement. You don't know much about Madagascar, but you just assume it's awful.

My uncle and cousin has been there and to many parts of Africa for missionary medical work. They didn't get murdered, and yes, they have been on the safaris. They have also received many gifts from people they have helped. Going to parts of Africa isn't like going on a Caribbean vacation, but people do find reasons go and manage to have positive experiences and bond with third world people. My cousin loves going to Africa.

 

[cpwill]

What a ridiculous statement. You don't know much about Madagascar, but you just assume it's awful.

Didn't actually read the post you were responding to, huh?

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