Hey China and Italy, how's single payer government medical care working out for you?

[joko104]

Isn't single payer government medical care working out just great for the Chinese and Italians? We do have working models to compare to now, don't we?

 

[Moot]

It wouldn't matter what kind of health system a country has if it gets overwhelmed with infected people. The same thing that happened in Italy could happen in the US, too.

Our hospitals don't have the capacity to handle this kind of outbreak and isolation seems to be the only way to keep the curve down.

Here's the 'flattening of the curve' that everyone is talking about....

 

[ataraxia]

Yes, what we need is a lot of uninsured people in a country when an infectious epidemic like this hits.:roll:

 

[Manc Skipper]

This thread didn't age well. Both countries are now over the worst and beginning to open up, while in the USA, infections are still climbing.

 

[OlNate]

Isn't single payer government medical care working out just great for the Chinese and Italians? We do have working models to compare to now, don't we?

hehe...yes...yes we do.

 

[mrdeltoid]

Yes, what we need is a lot of uninsured people in a country when an infectious epidemic like this hits.:roll:

Insurance doesn’t protect you from being infected.

 

[HIP56948]

Speaking as an Australian, I'll never understand why Americans (I'm one of those also), are actually against single payer. Americans seem to actually buy all the propaganda that the Insurance Industry pumps out. (You have to wait sooo long..Total bull)
Is Australian health care perfect? Nope, not at all but living in both countries truly shows which one is worth the money. Keep in mind that if your're wealthy (I'm not), one can get the best care here in the USA or anywhere else. For the rest of us? No way.

Had an operation 7 years ago in Australia. Cancer. Was only the size of a quarter on my liver. Had to wait 5 days after the diagnoses. Was in the hospital for 7 days. Total bill for Doctors, Surgeons was a big fat zero. Again, it's not perfect across the ocean but American health care is way overpriced.

 

[MAGAnificent]

It wouldn't matter what kind of health system a country has if it gets overwhelmed with infected people. The same thing that happened in Italy could happen in the US, too.

Our hospitals don't have the capacity to handle this kind of outbreak and isolation seems to be the only way to keep the curve down.

Here's the 'flattening of the curve' that everyone is talking about....

You are missing the point. In a government run single payer system, where the government decides how many doctors, nurses, high tech diagnostic equipment, hospital beds, clinics, etc are needed, a pandemic is absolutely going to overwhelm the healthcare system. Only what the government bean counters allow is built. In a profit driven system like in the US, much more is available. It's much less likely to be overwhelmed. Italy for instance quickly got to the point where anyone over the age of 60 was denied a ventilator. Over 60 is the most vulnerable group to Covid 19. That did not happen in the US. We had enough doctors, nurses, hospital beds, and were able to quickly crank up production on the ventilators and PPE.

 

[ClaraD]

Insurance doesn’t protect you from being infected.

no, but it makes it much more likely that you will get treated if you do.

 

[MAGAnificent]

no, but it makes it much more likely that you will get treated if you do.

Which part of "All Covid patients would be treated and any insurance copayments will be waived", do you not understand? There is not a covid 19 patient anywhere in the country that is being denied treatment.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Isn't single payer government medical care working out just great for the Chinese and Italians? We do have working models to compare to now, don't we?

China does not have single payer

It has quite a few private clinics and hospitals

 

[ClaraD]

Which part of "All Covid patients would be treated and any insurance copayments will be waived", do you not understand? There is not a covid 19 patient anywhere in the country that is being denied treatment.

I was denied a test and I had all of the symptoms...I wasn't a level one patient...and that was here in South Carolina...I also received a bill from the hospital and my insurance was charged too.

 

[VanceMack]

Speaking as an Australian, I'll never understand why Americans (I'm one of those also), are actually against single payer. Americans seem to actually buy all the propaganda that the Insurance Industry pumps out. (You have to wait sooo long..Total bull)
Is Australian health care perfect? Nope, not at all but living in both countries truly shows which one is worth the money. Keep in mind that if your're wealthy (I'm not), one can get the best care here in the USA or anywhere else. For the rest of us? No way.

Had an operation 7 years ago in Australia. Cancer. Was only the size of a quarter on my liver. Had to wait 5 days after the diagnoses. Was in the hospital for 7 days. Total bill for Doctors, Surgeons was a big fat zero. Again, it's not perfect across the ocean but American health care is way overpriced.

Without a massive voluntary correction to our current insurance system, we will eventually get to a single payer system. that was the plan all along and why the democrats passed the "Affordable" Care Act...which is anything but affordable. Since the passage of the ACA, premiums and deductibles have made insurance for many essentially unusable. At some point, with a democrat president and a dem controlled house and senate again they will ram through ACA 2 and it will be a single payer system and it will be the death of American health care insurance. People will still be free to buy insurance if they want, but because taxes will go up so high to cover the new spending they wont be able to afford it. People will lose the things they have now...the ability to select their own doctors and to coordinate more immediate care.

Its coming. It will be inevitable now.

 

[TomFitz]

This thread didn't age well. Both countries are now over the worst and beginning to open up, while in the USA, infections are still climbing.

In case you haven’t noticed. Trumpster threads tend not to age well.

 

[lwf]

This thread didn't age well. Both countries are now over the worst and beginning to open up, while in the USA, infections are still climbing.

In case you haven’t noticed. Trumpster threads tend not to age well.

This happens so often there should be a name for it.

 

[TomFitz]

This happens so often there should be a name for it.

Trumpstervision......nah, that doesn’t quite capture it!

 

[HIP56948]

Without a massive voluntary correction to our current insurance system, we will eventually get to a single payer system. that was the plan all along and why the democrats passed the "Affordable" Care Act...which is anything but affordable. Since the passage of the ACA, premiums and deductibles have made insurance for many essentially unusable. At some point, with a democrat president and a dem controlled house and senate again they will ram through ACA 2 and it will be a single payer system and it will be the death of American health care insurance. People will still be free to buy insurance if they want, but because taxes will go up so high to cover the new spending they wont be able to afford it. People will lose the things they have now...the ability to select their own doctors and to coordinate more immediate care.

Its coming. It will be inevitable now.

Your words ring true. When the ACA first came out, I decided to read up on the rules regarding operations, visits, state and federal laws...etc. After about 13 pages I thought to myself. "Damn..I thought quantum physics was rather obscure"....

 

[avatar]

You are missing the point. In a government run single payer system, where the government decides how many doctors, nurses, high tech diagnostic equipment, hospital beds, clinics, etc are needed, a pandemic is absolutely going to overwhelm the healthcare system. Only what the government bean counters allow is built. In a profit driven system like in the US, much more is available. It's much less likely to be overwhelmed. Italy for instance quickly got to the point where anyone over the age of 60 was denied a ventilator. Over 60 is the most vulnerable group to Covid 19. That did not happen in the US. We had enough doctors, nurses, hospital beds, and were able to quickly crank up production on the ventilators and PPE.

Who had more deaths...........mike drop.

 

[VanceMack]

Who had more deaths...........mike drop.

Wait...do you REALLY think comparing the total death count in a country like the US with a total population of approx 340 million legal residents and as many as 30 million illegal residents that counts anyone that might have ANY relationship to COVID19 as a corona virus death is comparable to Italy...a country with a total population 1/6th the size of the US that ONLY counts the COVID19 deaths that actually occur in their hospitals?

And you thought your response was worthy of a 'Mike' drop?

:lamo

 

[avatar]

Wait...do you REALLY think comparing the total death count in a country like the US with a total population of approx 340 million legal residents and as many as 30 million illegal residents that counts anyone that might have ANY relationship to COVID19 as a corona virus death is comparable to Italy...a country with a total population 1/6th the size of the US that ONLY counts the COVID19 deaths that actually occur in their hospitals?

And you thought your response was worthy of a 'Mike' drop?

:lamo

Yes, I think it's fair. Perhaps you hadn't noticed that New York State alone has exceeded Italy and is still going up like a moon shot.

Picks up mike and drops it again.

 

[ataraxia]

Insurance doesn’t protect you from being infected.

Sure. But it can help with not dying.

 

[VanceMack]

Yes, I think it's fair. Perhaps you hadn't noticed that New York State alone has exceeded Italy and is still going up like a moon shot.

Picks up mike and drops it again.

Perhaps you should leave Mike alone. He is getting sore being dropped for no good reason....

OK..so you are saying that Cuomo and de Blasio were dismal failures and responsible for more deaths in New York State alone than all of Italy. Except that you are missing some key points. Italy has 10 million more deaths than New York AND Italy ONLY COUNTS THE COVID 919 DEATHS IF THEY DIE IN THE HOSPITAL DIRECTLY FROM COVID 19.

 

[avatar]

Perhaps you should leave Mike alone. He is getting sore being dropped for no good reason....

OK..so you are saying that Cuomo and de Blasio were dismal failures and responsible for more deaths in New York State alone than all of Italy. Except that you are missing some key points. Italy has 10 million more deaths than New York AND Italy ONLY COUNTS THE COVID 919 DEATHS IF THEY DIE IN THE HOSPITAL DIRECTLY FROM COVID 19.

Facts: New York State Overtakes Italy, Has Coronavirus Cases Second Only to Spain: Reuters Tally.

You'll have to look that up yourself as US News doesn't want it linked.

 

[VanceMack]

Facts: New York State Overtakes Italy, Has Coronavirus Cases Second Only to Spain: Reuters Tally.

You'll have to look that up yourself as US News doesn't want it linked.

I did look it up. Italy has more deaths than New York...by about 10 million. I also learned the fact in reading about Italy's death toll that they ONLY count deaths of individuals that die in hospital and can DIRECTLY be attributed to COVID 19 as opposed to the CDC guidelines that state that if you trip, fall in a pool, and drown but had a fever that COULD have been COVID related then you are counted in the COVID 19 death numbers in the US.

Your comparison is invalid.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Insurance doesn’t protect you from being infected.

It kind of does. If somebody has none, they keep going to work till they're too sick, so the virus spreads farther, and infect you and hundreds of others. With insurance, they'd go to the Dr and be treated, and not infect you and the others.