Here's what cops have to deal with every day

[yankintx]

San Diego police video shows officers shooting man who slipped out of handcuffs, grabbed gun | foxnews.com

San Diego police released a video Wednesday of the shooting of a man who slipped off of his handcuffs and fired an officer's gun before he was shot and subdued at police headquarters./QUOTE]



People want to pretend there's a systemic problem with cops.

The only systemic problem is the increase in brazen behavior by violent criminals.

I have no doubt there are many fine officers, who do there job with the best of intentions. I also believe a few bad apples are spreading the rot amongst there fellow 9f
Officers. No its not easy to be a police officer in America. Nor is it easy being an African American male in America.

 

[Schism]

I have no doubt there are many fine officers, who do there job with the best of intentions. I also believe a few bad apples are spreading the rot amongst there fellow 9f
Officers. No its not easy to be a police officer in America. Nor is it easy being an African American male in America.

A rational and sober view, yankintx. Others here are just rabid cop haters.

 

[Schism]

The only reason this incident won't become a flash point for BLM is because the perp lived.

Also, you'll never hear BLM point to incidents such as this, and call out black criminal behavior.

Just like you haven't heard a peep from BLM about all the children killed in the last 3 weeks.

Black Lives Matter is selective in which black lives actually matter to them.

 

[Bodi]

San Diego police video shows officers shooting man who slipped out of handcuffs, grabbed gun | foxnews.com

San Diego police released a video Wednesday of the shooting of a man who slipped off of his handcuffs and fired an officer's gun before he was shot and subdued at police headquarters./QUOTE]



People want to pretend there's a systemic problem with cops.

The only systemic problem is the increase in brazen behavior by violent criminals.

So these ****ing dip**** cops misplace a gun and then when the guy gets out of the car with the gun in his waste band and his arms out with no weapon in them... shoot him and loose an attack dog on him and you want to say that the only problem is criminals? :lol:

Stop posting such funny ****! :lol:

Black Lives Matter is selective in which black lives actually matter to them.

I bet that you are a real hoot in socialist Oregon...

 

[Michael Johnson]

So these ****ing dip**** cops misplace a gun and then when the guy gets out of the car with the gun in his waste band and his arms out with no weapon in them... shoot him and loose an attack dog on him and you want to say that the only problem is criminals? :lol:

Stop posting such funny ****! :lol:



I bet that you are a real hoot in socialist Oregon...

LOL Lib Illogic at its stupidest.

 

[Bodi]

LOL Lib Illogic at its stupidest.

Thank you for sharing your weak liberal logic... it is as weak as weak conservative logic.

 

[Michael Johnson]

What the video shows does not change the fact that the murder of George Floyd, and many other African Americans was completely unjustified, and the police throwing a tantrum over any level of accountability sends the message that systematic reform is long overdo.

You have a war supply of red herrings and lies at your disposal.

George Floyd is dead and his killer is in prison. Get over it. You act as if you personally knew the man.

You can't even name 1,000 recent true police brutality cases out of nearly 400 million police interactions per year.

Fix Chiraq since you want to bring up George Floyd as a ****ing flag to be waved when you don't have facts to back up your garbage.

 

[Michael Johnson]

Thank you for sharing your weak liberal logic... it is as weak as weak conservative logic.

LOL so your only response is to come up with a dumber response.

Since you think the thug wasn't so dangerous, get your behind out there and patrol those dangerous neighborhoods.

 

[Bodi]

LOL so your only response is to come up with a dumber response.

The best way to show how stupid your post was...

Since you think the thug wasn't so dangerous, get your behind out there and patrol those dangerous neighborhoods.

I bet I have been around far more thugs, gang members, guns, weapons and violent situations in my first two weeks of teaching in the East Bay near Oakland/Richmond than you will encounter in your entire ****ing life. Puh-leeze... :lol:

 

[Court Jester]

San Diego police video shows officers shooting man who slipped out of handcuffs, grabbed gun | foxnews.com

San Diego police released a video Wednesday of the shooting of a man who slipped off of his handcuffs and fired an officer's gun before he was shot and subdued at police headquarters./QUOTE]



People want to pretend there's a systemic problem with cops.

The only systemic problem is the increase in brazen behavior by violent criminals.

I agree, they deal with worst of the worst. No wonder so many leave the job early, have marital problems, or other long lasting trauma.

I saw this video today, and for the life of me I cannot figure out the stupidity in leaving a 'back up gun' in a bag in the squad car. Most cops I know always carry a back up on them. Just in case they lose their primary in a fight and need to protect themselves. So why was this back up not secured? The shotgun and or rifles in the units are always locked.

Then after the thug gets free, gets the gun----OH LORDY! was I nervous and these officers made a circle and/or semi circle around the car having each other in line of fire of other muzzles. And then gof forbid it really get into heavy shooting in a CONCRETE car parking lot, with smooth concrete floors, concrete ceilings and walls, concrete pillars. What I know about ballistics makes a shoot out in a spot like that like being inside a pinball machine.

I'd say the officer who handled the best as I saw it, was the police dog. GREAT JOB there!

I also don't know why they held fire anyway when the perp was out of the car. He had ALREADY fired shots when he was in the car, so I don't care if the weapon was in his waistband, I would have wasted the guy as soon as I had any shot when he was out of the car. I guess today cops really do have a tough job if they have to second guess themselves to the point where they handle a armed and dangerous escaping felon with that much consideration. I say just shoot him and end the situation before he gets a lucky shot off and kills an officer.

 

[Michael Johnson]

The best way to show how stupid your post was...

Your posts get dumber with each response. Do you ever stop crying when confronted on your bullshhh?

I bet I have been around far more thugs, gang members, guns, weapons and violent situations in my first two weeks of teaching in the East Bay near Oakland/Richmond than you will encounter in your entire ****ing life. Puh-leeze... :lol:

Oh please do tell me about your armchair imaginary tough guy experience with hardened criminals LOL

 

[Michael Johnson]

I agree, they deal with worst of the worst. No wonder so many leave the job early, have marital problems, or other long lasting trauma.

I saw this video today, and for the life of me I cannot figure out the stupidity in leaving a 'back up gun' in a bag in the squad car. Most cops I know always carry a back up on them. Just in case they lose their primary in a fight and need to protect themselves. So why was this back up not secured? The shotgun and or rifles in the units are always locked.

Then after the thug gets free, gets the gun----OH LORDY! was I nervous and these officers made a circle and/or semi circle around the car having each other in line of fire of other muzzles. And then gof forbid it really get into heavy shooting in a CONCRETE car parking lot, with smooth concrete floors, concrete ceilings and walls, concrete pillars. What I know about ballistics makes a shoot out in a spot like that like being inside a pinball machine.

I'd say the officer who handled the best as I saw it, was the police dog. GREAT JOB there!

I also don't know why they held fire anyway when the perp was out of the car. He had ALREADY fired shots when he was in the car, so I don't care if the weapon was in his waistband, I would have wasted the guy as soon as I had any shot when he was out of the car. I guess today cops really do have a tough job if they have to second guess themselves to the point where they handle a armed and dangerous escaping felon with that much consideration. I say just shoot him and end the situation before he gets a lucky shot off and kills an officer.

One of the officers were smart enough to tell them to watch their lines of fire.

Overall they were probably scared to shoot him due to the Lib kangaroo courts, media, and Black Lies Matter/Antifa rioters ready to eat them alive. San Diego is one of the numerous ultra Lib cities of Californication.

 

[Bodi]

Your posts get dumber with each response. Do you ever stop crying when confronted on your bullshhh?



Oh please do tell me about your armchair imaginary tough guy experience with hardened criminals LOL

Please cry some more about how tough you are without ever ever having to actually deal with gangs/street issues... :lol:

Clowns like to dismiss real life from behind their Internet screen... thank you for illustrating this to others...

Of course, my work has been documented and verified here... but please... cry. Cry, :lol:

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Sure pal. God, the flag, and the cops. The phony patriot trifecta.

It's a Gang of Four now, according to evidence related to a lot of police unions in major cities.

It is now God, The Flag, Cops and Biker Gangs...white supremacist biker gangs, which apparently boast a lot of cops and ex-cops as members.

Wait, it's also God, The Flag, Cops, Biker Gangs and phony Patriot Militias, according to Donald Trump!

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

A personal anecdote followed by an unsubstantiated narrative: "Doesn't change the fact that there are mountains of systemic injustices and prejudice riddled throughout the departments in our major cities."

The only problem being that you can't document it, so you post personal attacks and insults, and imagine straw men.

Yeah, it's not every day that a cop sues a city and a department over racism and wins... and then winds up becoming the Chief of Police, but still has to face one of the defendants who has now decided that everyone, the people, the Minneapolis City Council, two successive police chiefs, the Mayor and even the Governor of Minnesota, are wrong and only he is right.



Shall I bring documentation about all of that and embarrass you further?

 

[bomberfox]

Becomes more dangerous when those you report to lie to scare the **** out of you and when you have cops that become immune to prosecution in so many ways. Change is coming, the days of whining about your job to escape accountability are coming to an end.

 

[bomberfox]

I remember when a lot of leftists were sneering at the officer who broke down at a fast food restaurant, and honestly i was confused too but after seeing the lie put out about people poisoning officers i knew why. NY Police Unions Allege Officers ‘Poisoned’ From Shake Shack Food—Then Change Tune

There is a real problem with systemic corruption, denying it out of hand wont make it go away.

 

[Schism]

Yeah, it's not every day that a cop sues a city and a department over racism and wins...[/URL] and then winds up becoming the Chief of Police, but still has to face one of the defendants who has now decided that everyone, the people, the Minneapolis City Council, two successive police chiefs, the Mayor and even the Governor of Minnesota, are wrong and only he is right.

{SNIP CARTOON}

Shall I bring documentation about all of that and embarrass you further?

Embarrass me? You highlighted my point: The article cites local, isolated incidents; it's purely anecdotal.

But let's unpack this and discuss it.

The Chief of Police, who previously sued the dept in 2007, is black, is chief, is in charge right now, and yet George Floyd was allegedly killed because "systemic racism", which took place under this same black Chief? Were "systemic racism" charges or disciplinary actions pending against any of these officers prior to the George Floyd case? Was Chief Arradondo actively reviewing any officers for complaints of racism or repeated incidents of bias, bigotry, racism, excessive use of force, etc? If so, what (if anything) tied this chief's hands preventing him from addressing any issues or matters of racism with his own department? Was there a short list (or long list) of individuals within the department that have been suspended, fired, disciplined, for racism or excessive use of force in the last 5 years? If so, how many and what are the details of those individual cases.

Here are some employment numbers for Minneapolis P.D.:

The city is divided into five precincts with 800 sworn officers and 300 civilian employees. As of May 29, 2020, the department's 3rd precinct station was destroyed. At the city's population peak, the MPD served over 521,000 people, and today serves over 430,000 people as of the last census estimate. .wikipedia.org

Among the 1100 employees, how many have been accused of bigotry, racism, excessive use of force, and what was the outcome of any disciplinary hearings? Can you express as a percentage the number of PD employees that could be considered in violation of department equality terms of employment?

Now, as for "systemic racism", since we cannot establish a pattern within one single department of one single city (lack of personnel-HR action reports) We have ZERO evidence to declare a systemic problem of any kind, much less racism.

Further, individual HR-employee issues are exactly that. A bad cop in Minneapolis has NOTHING to do with a bad cop in Philly, Seattle, L.A., Miami, or Tupelo Mississippi. It's like trying to say that because a warehouse worker in Cleveland abuses product boxes that it fits a pattern of damaged boxes in warehouses nationwide.

It's a ridiculous premise because these departments are NOT connected in any way. These departments around the nation are like independent autonomous companies. They don't share training, HR, policy, employment and hiring standards, etc, etc.

This is why I said that you can't demonstrate systemic racism, and what did you do? You posted an anecdotal story; a local isolated story of one departments 'few bad cops', one of the complainants who is now Chief, and yet George Floyd still died.

Do you not understand this?

I'll give you this: Every company and employer has a few bad employees. Fire Dept's routinely and regularly uncover an arsonist in their ranks. Fire attracts arsonists...who knew? The medical field attracts those with god complex as well, the psychology field attracts the mentally ill but highly functional, security companies attract those weeded out by police hiring, police attract some authoritarians. All employers now train on bias, bigotry, racism, equal rights, sexual harassment, among other corporate topics...WHY? Because some humans commit sexual hassment in the workplace, or bully coworkers, or make sexist comments, or forward sexually explicit jokes via company email.

IOW flawed human beings go to work every day, and whenever non-compliant behaviors are identified it's up to HR and management to deal with it legally. After all, they are democrats and unions that have lawyered up to protect workers rights and keep them from being fired. Democrats in years past have tied the hands of employers who would rather have a freer hand in firing deserving employees.

1) Conservatives fought for Right-to-Work and Employment-At-Will laws and Democrats fought to tie their hands.
2) Corporate and gov't HR training is now widespread and mainstream.
3) Local, individual employee discipline is not a demonstration of a nationwide systemic problem of any kind.

This is largely political.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

It's a ridiculous premise because these departments are NOT connected in any way. These departments around the nation are like independent autonomous companies. They don't share training, HR, policy, employment and hiring standards, etc, etc.

You asked, I answered, so now YOU will have to read the briefs, if you want to know those facts and figures.
Arradondo has been trying to push through reforms as much as his predecessors, to no avail, because the MFoP has fought them every step of the way. He WON his lawsuit precisely because he proved that there was systemic racial prejudice issues riddling the union.

PS: Your solution, turning police depts into right to work operations, is a disaster.
Throwing all unions out is not the answer, reigning in their ability to influence city policy is.
Police unions, and all public sector unions for that matter, should not be allowed to interfere in policy and politics in the first place, because policy is decided by vote, by city council, and by the Mayor. If Kroll wants to get political he needs to run for public office and get elected.

Yes, departments DO actually share common training, and that's because training no longer works the way it used to.
For instance, William J. Lewinski is a psychologist who trains officers through his "Force Science Institute" and he moonlights as an "expert witness" for a thousand bucks an hour when a cop goes on trial for a shooting.
A thousand bucks an hour is cheap compared to six and seven figure payouts in a lawsuit.

Sorry but you're wrong. These training institutes have largely replaced training by older experienced police officers and many of them contract with dozens of cities across the country.

 

[Schism]

You asked, I answered, so now YOU will have to read the briefs, if you want to know those facts and figures.
Arradondo has been trying to push through reforms as much as his predecessors, to no avail, because the MFoP has fought them every step of the way. He WON his lawsuit precisely because he proved that there was systemic racial prejudice issues riddling the union.

Woah, woah, woah...the police union? They're the ones keeping PD's from cleaning the ranks? Well I'm going to have to AGREE with you.
However, it does nothing to support systemic racism across the board, of a majority, across the nation. You can't conflate a single dept's HR -employee problems to a trend. You can't even document enough examples to show a trend. That's my only point. You're painting with a broad brush.

PS: Your solution, turning police depts into right to work operations, is a disaster.
Throwing all unions out is not the answer, reigning in their ability to influence city policy is.
Police unions, and all public sector unions for that matter, should not be allowed to interfere in policy and politics in the first place, because policy is decided by vote, by city council, and by the Mayor. If Kroll wants to get political he needs to run for public office and get elected.

I don't believe the answer is defunding or disbanding. What we're dealing with is the need for a reasonable HR-Employee process that can quickly identify and remedy problem officers. There should probably be a 5 year apprentice period with no weapon; an OJT extended period.

Yes, departments DO actually share common training, and that's because training no longer works the way it used to.
For instance, William J. Lewinski is a psychologist who trains officers through his "Force Science Institute" and he moonlights as an "expert witness" for a thousand bucks an hour when a cop goes on trial for a shooting.
A thousand bucks an hour is cheap compared to six and seven figure payouts in a lawsuit.

Sorry but you're wrong. These training institutes have largely replaced training by older experienced police officers and many of them contract with dozens of cities across the country.

That's not the same as having identical policies from location to location. Also, training budgets differ among locale, and therefor out of thousands of police and sheriff depts across the nation, very few can afford third party corporate training.

However, I believe there is merit to the model for standardized training. The issue is arriving at the standards, implementing the training, then paying for it by state and city and county to become certified in those standards.

But no, you haven't supported a case for systemic racism. You've supported the case for implementing standardized police training.

I agree with that approach.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

But no, you haven't supported a case for systemic racism.

Have not addressed that in the last couple of posts at all, other than to point out that Arradondo et al WON their lawsuit.
If you want to disagree and call the court and the jury liars, go ahead.
I have not addressed your challenge yet.
Your word salad barrages require a bite sized approach, one item at a time.
Again, you think this is about me "winning something" but the reality is, this is about a town I spent the formative years of my youth in and so I care a great deal about Minneapolis.

You ain't near done yet, pardner, because I ain't near done with you yet.
So be careful not to strut around crowing victory like some banty rooster.
You've already revealed that you have no earthly idea how police get trained, or how police unions in major cities handle these types of officer complaints. I HAD to learn about it because it's affecting a lot of my friends who still live up there today.

So you see, how I handle your agenda driven posts is not a big deal compared to my real goal, which is to learn how Minneapolis can cut Bob Kroll off at the knees and finally get to the bottom of these issues and explore ways to retool and reboot the concept of law enforcement.
There will ALWAYS be a police force in Minneapolis, but it may very well end up resembling a model like the one in Camden New Jersey

So by all means please continue with your gloating, I am used to that.
Please continue bloviating about how there is no systemic racism in police unions...just like when Serpico was told that there was "no systemic corruption and no cops on the take in the NYPD".

True, this whole thing was done to death a month or more ago and you were nowhere to be found when it was being debated.
So maybe I should just dig up earlier posts, because I get sick of repeating and retyping stuff for people who couldn't be bothered when the conversation was taking place the first time.

But rest assured, one way or another, the facts will prove your bloviating wrong but I don't expect you to believe that because to you, it means you "lost the debate" which of course means you're incapable of learning anything.

That's common among Trumpsters.



Don't forget, Arradondo did not win a debate on debatepolitics...he won a lawsuit.
That usually doesn't happen unless people are finally convinced of something they did not believe previously.

What one must believe to argue otherwise?
Oh I dunno, maybe that there was some secret plot (could it be George Soros or some other Democrat Nazi) to poison the entire jury and distract the judge long enough to gain a false victory...hmmmm, those crisis actors must be involved somehow.

Yeah, keep humming "Nothing to see here, move along"....that's going to look pretty awful shortly.

 

[Schism]

Now you've descended into theatrics and absurdity. Have a cookie.

Good day.

 

[Michael Johnson]

The best way to show how stupid your post was...



I bet I have been around far more thugs, gang members, guns, weapons and violent situations in my first two weeks of teaching in the East Bay near Oakland/Richmond than you will encounter in your entire ****ing life. Puh-leeze... :lol:

LOL go on. Cry to me some more about your armchair tough guy experience.

 

[Mr Person]

Now you've descended into theatrics and absurdity. Have a cookie.

Good day.

Why not quote him if you're going to try troll him while running away?

Afraid?

 

[bomberfox]

You asked, I answered, so now YOU will have to read the briefs, if you want to know those facts and figures.
Arradondo has been trying to push through reforms as much as his predecessors, to no avail, because the MFoP has fought them every step of the way. He WON his lawsuit precisely because he proved that there was systemic racial prejudice issues riddling the union.

PS: Your solution, turning police depts into right to work operations, is a disaster.
Throwing all unions out is not the answer, reigning in their ability to influence city policy is.
Police unions, and all public sector unions for that matter, should not be allowed to interfere in policy and politics in the first place, because policy is decided by vote, by city council, and by the Mayor. If Kroll wants to get political he needs to run for public office and get elected.

Yes, departments DO actually share common training, and that's because training no longer works the way it used to.
For instance, William J. Lewinski is a psychologist who trains officers through his "Force Science Institute" and he moonlights as an "expert witness" for a thousand bucks an hour when a cop goes on trial for a shooting.
A thousand bucks an hour is cheap compared to six and seven figure payouts in a lawsuit.

Sorry but you're wrong. These training institutes have largely replaced training by older experienced police officers and many of them contract with dozens of cities across the country.

Contracting is also a problem because they subcontract with supplemental training from deranged lunatics.