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Helicopter Money - is it time?

Fenton said:
Exactly, fiscal stimulus is a ideological solution not meant to address any substantial underlying issues that are causing stagnation.
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In the US, the underlying issue is long term wage depression, the immediate issue is depressed demand. Helicopter squarely hits the immediate, tax changes effect the long term.
 
jaeger19 said:
Did I stutter? Its the way in which demand siders try to increase consumer spending that often leads to consolidation.
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Nice support for that blurt...as per usual....nada por nada.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
In the US, the underlying issue is long term wage depression, the immediate issue is depressed demand. Helicopter squarely hits the immediate, tax changes effect the long term.
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Seriously, what other solution is there to depressed demand? I expect helicopter money to take off in the next 10 years. Hell, economic growth isn't getting better around the world... It's depressed. And countries are afraid to do anything because of an irrational fear of deficits.
 
David_N said:
Which way do you refer to?
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Well.. take your position.

How many threads have you called for more government spending? Increased deficit spending? How much time to you devote to increase government spending to "increase aggregate demand". A ton.

And how much time is spent in your threads in HOW the government spends? very little if anything. Oh.. maybe a grudging "well I never said I don't care where money it spent".. when called on it. And then its back to "but but we need to spend MORE".. again.

the responses from the majority of "demand siders".. on this board are as predictable as Fentons posts about California and Texas.

I'll give you an example: the expansion of Medicaid is a "demand side" idea. Increased deficit spending? Surely. Increase demand for heathcare? Absolutely.

Winner winner chicken dinner right?

Except.. Medicaid is basically the lowest paying of all insurances. The per procedure amount reimbursed is so low that it makes it difficult and or impossible for small providers to accept Medicaid. Its simply costs them more than they get reimbursed to provide care. The entities that CAN profit from Medicaid are those large consolidated facilities that can handle enough volume, are more efficient due to size, and can manipulate patient flow to maximize reimbursement. All of which gives a distinct advantage for companies to consolidate.. over independent providers.

Its in part why you have been seeing the massive consolidation of healthcare services.
 
David_N said:
Seriously, what other solution is there to depressed demand? I expect helicopter money to take off in the next 10 years. Hell, economic growth isn't getting better around the world... It's depressed. And countries are afraid to do anything because of an irrational fear of deficits.
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The problem is that your premise assumes there is depressed demand.
 
David G said:
It is my own impression that we were a bit too timid, too frugal, when we constructed our fiscal stimulus in response to the Bush Recession. It's hard to know for certain because it seems historically that recessions springing from the financial sector - as this one did - tend to be stubborn. Slower to recover. But, worldwide, and in the U.S. - the recovery is less than robust. And it may be winding down without getting entirely over the hump.

So it it time for more?

The Economist explains: Why central banks are talking about throwing money from helicopters | The Economist
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It didn't work the first, so let's do it again. What's the definition of insanity?
 
jaeger19 said:
The problem is that your premise assumes there is depressed demand.
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Hey man!!! This is America and any time we have so much as one person that can't afford a pair of Air Jordans and an Xbox there is depressed demand.
 
:doh

Lol...
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Hey everyone, Medicaid is a means to get consumers TO SPEND MORE!

Good grief.
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Hey everyone... increasing the number of people having healthcare insurance does nothing to increase demand for healthcare.

good grief.
 
Lutherf said:
Hey man!!! This is America and any time we have so much as one person that can't afford a pair of Air Jordans and an Xbox there is depressed demand.
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Newsflash: The world is lacking aggregate demand. Central banks know this, economists know this, the data shows this.
 
David_N said:
Are you arguing there is not? What makes you believe that?
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Well.. unemployment is around our historical average. And we may even be at full employment.

Corporations are making more record profits. We have a trade deficit which suggests that demand is strong.
 
jaeger19 said:
Well.. unemployment is around our historical average. And we may even be at full employment.

Corporations are making more record profits. We have a trade deficit which suggests that demand is strong.
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When looking at our unemployment, you have to also consider wages and how much people are working, along with the long term unemployed. Yes, corporations are making record profits, how does this translate to more demand? A trade deficit doesn't suggest that demand is strong, we've been an importer for some time now. That's like arguing demand was fine in 09 because we had a trade deficit. Look, pay attention to our pathetic GDP growth, and consumer spending, which drives economies. We don't need more saving, we need more spending.
 
jaeger19 said:
Well.. unemployment is around our historical average. And we may even be at full employment.

Corporations are making more record profits. We have a trade deficit which suggests that demand is strong.
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I have no idea where you are getting that from...because that is NOT the reality of the situation.

'U.S. Corporate Profits on Pace for Third Straight Decline'

U.S. corporate profits, weighed down by the energy slump and slowing global growth, are set to decline for the third straight quarter in the longest slide in earnings since the financial crisis'

U.S. corporate profits, weighed down by the energy slump and slowing global growth, are set to decline for the third straight quarter in the longest slide in earnings since the financial crisis.

Weakness was felt across the board, with executives from Apple Inc. to railroad Norfolk Southern Corp. and snack giant Mondelez International Inc. saying the current quarter remains tough. 3M Co., which makes tapes, filters and insulation for consumer electronics, forecast continued weak demand for that industry. Procter & Gamble Co. reported sales declines in its five business categories despite price increases.

U.S. Corporate Profits on Pace for Third Straight Decline - WSJ


And if it was not for corporate buybacks at record levels (thanks to all the cheap money sloshing around) which 'artificially' pumps up their share prices and their profits, things would probably be even worse.
 
David_N said:
We know, it's embarrassing that you aren't debating any of our points and resorting to posting about California in a thread about "helicopter money."
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The California post was a example of just how destructive progressive policies are to local and National economies.

You people discount entirely the actions and reactions of private sector investors, its no wonder you support something as dim whitted and innefective as " Helicopter money "
 
DA60 said:
I have no idea where you are getting that from...because that is NOT the reality of the situation.

'U.S. Corporate Profits on Pace for Third Straight Decline'

U.S. corporate profits, weighed down by the energy slump and slowing global growth, are set to decline for the third straight quarter in the longest slide in earnings since the financial crisis'

U.S. corporate profits, weighed down by the energy slump and slowing global growth, are set to decline for the third straight quarter in the longest slide in earnings since the financial crisis.

Weakness was felt across the board, with executives from Apple Inc. to railroad Norfolk Southern Corp. and snack giant Mondelez International Inc. saying the current quarter remains tough. 3M Co., which makes tapes, filters and insulation for consumer electronics, forecast continued weak demand for that industry. Procter & Gamble Co. reported sales declines in its five business categories despite price increases.

U.S. Corporate Profits on Pace for Third Straight Decline - WSJ


And if it was not for corporate buybacks at record levels (thanks to all the cheap money sloshing around) which 'artificially' pumps up their share prices and their profits, things would probably be even worse.
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Hm, interesting. "Slowing global growth." Lack of consumer spending.
 
Fenton said:
The California post was a example of just how destructive progressive policies are to local and National economies.

You people discount entirely the actions and reactions of private sector investors, its no wonder you support something as dim whitted and innefective as " Helicopter money "
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But it's your only example Fenton! And it's a state! A state that's by no means collapsing either. Now, Kansas and louisania.. Who said we discount private sector investors?
 
David_N said:
But it's your only example Fenton! And it's a state! A state that's by no means collapsing either. Now, Kansas and louisania.. Who said we discount private sector investors?
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Other States have lost bussinesses, their tax base, and their tax payers because of foolish Progressive policies.

Illinois, Michigan and New York to name 3 more. Amd California would LOVE to have Kansas's problems right about now.

Theyre broke, have the highest unfunded pension liabilities in the Nation and Illinois has the second highest level of unfunded liabilities.

You people are ideologically predisposed to ignore the investor and think you can grow economies solely with direct Govt outlays. By funding with debt a huge public sector
 
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