Have you ever regretted your vote for a US president?

[Bullseye]

Yeah. After that, I voted for Trump, and so far, no regrets, lol. I'm getting exactly what I thought I would.

I voted for Trump as well. When it boiled down to the General Election he was the "least worst" choice among plausible candidates. Sure I could have voted for one of the
fringe candidates and then strutted around for the next four years proclaiming "don't blame me I didn't vote for him". But I don't do that, ever. I vote for the candidate whose positions come closest to mine on the issues I feel are most important. Clinton embracing "Obama's third term" mantras sealed the deal for me, but I also thought Trump had a better approach to the economy and jobs than Clinton. I figured he'd advocate business/economy friendly positions rather than Obama's business-hostile crap.

Which is not to say I'm totally happy with Trump. Far from it.

 

[MrWonka]

Dems and Repubs push in similar directions, towards bigger and more obstructive government. I do not like that. If I want to "force them", then I have to quit playing their game

You have to win the game before they'll let you change the rules.

And if enough people can aggregate on that side, then pressure can be exerted on the OneParty.

No, it can't. Because most people aren't as naive as you. They realize that if they want to change something it's easier to do it from the inside than the outside.

The Republican and Democratic parties have both existed simultaneously for decades.

But they've changed radically when one side realized it couldn't win anymore. Lincoln and even MLK were once Republicans, but FDR dominated as a Democrat to the point where Republicans couldn't win at all anymore. Over time, the Democratic party then split into two parties. One that was more northern and liberal, and another that was more southern and racist. Nixon then remade the Republican party in order to attract the racist southern wing of the Democratic party. The northern liberal wing then moved more to the side of civil rights to counter and pulled MLK, and the African American vote with it.

The names have remained the same, but the core policies can be changed over time. In order to get them to change, however, you have to make one side consistently lose for a while.

Obviously if merely voting Democrat would destroy the Republican party, then the Republican party would already be no more. But it's not, it still exists, so voting Democrats isn't going to get me where I want to go anyway.

But you said you don't vote Democrat. You vote third-party. So it's you voting third-party that hasn't killed the Republican party.

You're already not listening to me. So why should I come over to your side in the vain hopes that all of a sudden you're going to listen to me then?

You shouldn't. You should come over to my side to make the other side listen to you.

Of course, he's a **** President, possibly the worst we've ever had. Voting Democrat wouldn't have changed that.

Yes, it would have. Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. This race was insanely close. If everyone who voted third-party would have voted for Hillary she would have won. The Republican Party would have lost three straight elections, and the more moderate Republicans in the party who are more libertarian would have been able to say to the rest of their party, "look, we tried a war hawk in McCain, and we lost. We tried a big business religious nut in Romney, and we lost. We tried a racist in Trump, and we lost. Time to start talking the libertarians more seriously."

Instead, Trump won, and because he won the Republicans now believe his bull**** antics are the blueprint for victory in the future. Until you break the election strategy of one party they're not going to fix it.

It's not a lesser of two evils if it pushes in the direction that I want to go and it aligns with my goals.

Yes, it is. And that's exactly what voting Democrat does, you're just don't seem to understand that.

I'm not sure you quite get it yourself.

Are you sure? Because I get to vote for presidents I like every time, and they at least win about 50/50. Presidents you like have never won. Maybe you should try listening to the person who at least wins some of the time.

 

[MrWonka]

It would be if I said "I don't like poison, I don't want to consume it, the results are bad" and your argument is "Well arsenic is worse, so you should eat cyanide because then you're not supporting arsenic".

That's a ridiculous comparison. You've survived Bush and Obama. Neither killed you. Bush left the country in the middle of two wars, and the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression with an exploding deficit. Obama presided over a growing economy, tried desperately to bring those wars to a close, and reduced the deficit by the end of his term. Now you're telling me that Trump is the worst president we've possibly ever had.

Even if you seriously think Democrats are deadly(they're not), the comparison is at worst cigarettes vs cyanide. Cigarettes may not be good for you, but you'll live a lot longer smoking them than taking cyanide. At least by choosing cigarettes, you can put the cyanide company out of business, and hopefully, they'll change their business plan.

You don't seem to understand and are unwilling to listen.

No, I hear you perfectly. You're just wrong. And you're very obviously wrong. You'd see that if YOU would listen.

You said that by voting Third Party you're taking votes away from Republicans, and hopefully, if they lose a few times they'll move in your direction. But Republicans didn't lose, because simply not voting for them doesn't hurt them enough. You have to vote for the other side instead. By voting third party you left the choice up to someone else.

There's no reason for me to support either or play in their rigged games knowing I'm going to lose

You're not going to lose. Republicans will lose. You won't win, but you won't lose. In the short term, things will be slightly better. You'll get rid of Trump, but you'll still have someone like Obama. However, in the long term once Republicans keep losing they'll eventually move your way. Once they move far enough that they're closer than Democrats then you can flip and vote Republican. Now the Democrats will lose over and over until they get desperate and move toward you again to get you back.

So long as you remain a spectator in the tug of war you are irrelevant.

 

[trixare4kids]

I voted for Trump as well. When it boiled down to the General Election he was the "least worst" choice among plausible candidates. Sure I could have voted for one of the
fringe candidates and then strutted around for the next four years proclaiming "don't blame me I didn't vote for him". But I don't do that, ever. I vote for the candidate whose positions come closest to mine on the issues I feel are most important. Clinton embracing "Obama's third term" mantras sealed the deal for me, but I also thought Trump had a better approach to the economy and jobs than Clinton. I figured he'd advocate business/economy friendly positions rather than Obama's business-hostile crap.

Which is not to say I'm totally happy with Trump. Far from it.

What's your opinion on his comments at the joint press conference in Russia?

 

[MrWonka]

I voted for Jimmy Carter - TWICE. What was I thinking?

You were probably thinking better back then.

 

[MrWonka]

Trump will likely go down as the worst President we've ever had.

Simply astounding. You can admit that Trump will likely go down as the worst President we've ever had, yet you didn't try and protect your country from him, by supporting the one candidate who had a chance to stop him. People like you are the reason we can't have nice things.

There have been 43 Presidents in American History prior to Obama. Are you really naive enough to believe that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were worse than all of them? We survived Obama just fine. We survived Bill Clinton quite well. Can you honestly say that we will survive Trump?

Honest Question....What would Trump have to do in order to convince you that your country and your life would be better if you'd done more to elect Hillary? Does he actually have to commit another Holocaust before you'd admit you were wrong?

 

[X Factor]

Wait a minute. That's not what you asked me earlier. You asked:



Based on what you have seen in my thousands of posts before this one, do you think that that is the case?

Totally not trying to get away with anything, here. I have asked you two separate questions. I have far from read all your posts so I cannot answer either for you. For sure, there is not a single thing wrong with or bad about supporting a president that advances an agenda you agree with. I presume we all do that which is why I think Trump still has support despite his seemingly permanent foot in mouth condition.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I’m sure there is a point that would be too far. The reason I ask, though, is that generally you’d support a lefty president advancing a lefty agenda, right?

The entire US political spectrum is far Right enough that even Democrats appear to be conservatives everywhere else in the world.
So, as far as "advancing a lefty agenda", things like good public schools and subsidized state university education, just as one example, aren't really "lefty" at all. America in the 1950's had those things.

If Americans can give their kids the best education available in the world and not break the bank doing it, most of our other problems will shrink in proportion or even get solved for the most part in due time.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I really want her and Al Franken to run for something together on the same ticket.

Al Franken wouldn't have anything to do with Jill Stein, so I am curious as to why you'd want that combination.
Stein's an idiot, by the way. If you want an example of an idiot Lefty, Stein's the poster child.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I regret voting for Bush. I was under the mistaken impression that I was a Republican, and I found Al Gore to be repellent. Had Gore won, it's at least possible that we could have avoided a seventeen year long war and the disaster in Iraq, though he surely would have responded to 9/11 in some way. It's anyone's guess.

Depends on whether or not 9/11 would have even happened or not.
It is possible Gore might have received that infamous "Bin Laden determined to strike at targets in U.S., Western allies" memo and maybe acted on it in some way. Or if it still would have happened, we might have been in a better state of readiness and the attack might have been less severe.

 

[Helix]

Depends on whether or not 9/11 would have even happened or not.
It is possible Gore might have received that infamous "Bin Laden determined to strike at targets in U.S., Western allies" memo and maybe acted on it in some way. Or if it still would have happened, we might have been in a better state of readiness and the attack might have been less severe.

That's another question, but my personal opinion is that the attack would have happened anyway.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I was 10 yrs old in 2000, just curious what was it about Gore back then that turned people off.

Nothing really. It's not like he presented himself as "amazing". In fact, I kind of regarded him as something of a fop in some ways.
On the other hand, I knew that for the most part he was a decent person, so I was good with the idea of him becoming President.
Bush came off as a dumbass right from the first day I saw him on television, so for me Gore was the better choice.

Not the PERFECT choice, mind you...just the better choice.

 

[Manc Skipper]

My last eight or nine for Trump. I was only doing it for a joke, but I'm not laughing now!

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Mostly, it was just a response to eight years under Bill Clinton. Not that Clinton did a bad job, just that a lot of people felt at the time like it would be good to switch things up a bit. Similarly to why a lot of stupid people voted for Trump after two terms under Obama.

People also felt like he was a bit rigid, and lacked a genuine personality. At the time it seemed like America could do no wrong, and it didn't really matter who was in the White House because our economy was so phenomenal.

The term for Al Gore at the time was "wooden"... I heard it repeated often in the press, wooden and "stiff".

 

[X Factor]

Jeezus H Christ on a crutch, that's some nonsense right there.
I would not expect YOU or ANYONE to just "become a Democrat" just because a conservative president has screwed the pooch.
If you're conservative, you're conservative, and goody for you. Conservatism is NOT a bad thing to this liberal, it's the counterpoint and the other bookend, it's the loyal opposition, it's the other rudder on the ship of state.

If you're a conservative, I expect you to be a good conservative, just as I should be a good liberal.
That's it...that's all, nothing else.

And even if you decided that conservatism is not your cuppa anymore, that does not automatically make you a liberal.
Liberalism is not just a political ideology, it is a mindset, just like conservatism.
You might indeed develop a liberal mindset and certain liberal values but the liberal political ideology may still be foreign to you.
And by the way, it is HARD to be a good liberal, there's just as many minefields on this side as there are on the conservative side.

Hmmmm, how do you square this with the stated goal of the destruction of the Repub party? Yes, I m know that being conservative isn’t the same as being Republican, but it is where the large majority of conservatives hang out.

 

[X Factor]

Depends on whether or not 9/11 would have even happened or not.
It is possible Gore might have received that infamous "Bin Laden determined to strike at targets in U.S., Western allies" memo and maybe acted on it in some way. Or if it still would have happened, we might have been in a better state of readiness and the attack might have been less severe.

So Bush was at fault for 9/11?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

His personality. He came off as a snooty policy wonk. Also, his wife was on that stupid committee for parents who made a big deal about swear words in lyrics, which really annoyed me. Add in that I was a new Foxie and Democrats were trying to ban smoking everywhere, and there you have it. I was 25. Then I grew up some and woke up.

HA!!!! Yes, Tipper Gore and her Parents Resource Music Center...the MONSTER "moral panic" of that time.
Zappa's testimony was one of the best moments in music history.

Skip to 3:41 for the good part.

 

[MrWonka]

So Bush was at fault for 9/11?

No, it's the terrorist's fault, but it's at least possible that Gore could have stopped it. After all Bush was too incompetent to kill Bin Laden, but Obama didn't seem to have any issues with it.

 

[X Factor]

How is not supporting endless war being "forgiving?"

Some lefties think we have nobody to blame for 9/11 but ourselves.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

One only has to realize the same enormous pressure from the electorate to retaliate against the Twin-Tower bombers on 9/11 emanates from the electorate to retaliate against Russia, today, to realize the electorate can sometimes force politicians into doing really stupid things like wars. Do you want a war with Russia?

There's not even a dotted line in that argument, not even one that's smudged.
Connecting dots between Saudi terrorists and Russia is a fool's errand.

 

[X Factor]

No, it's the terrorist's fault, but it's at least possible that Gore could have stopped it. After all Bush was too incompetent to kill Bin Laden, but Obama didn't seem to have any issues with it.

You post some really stupid **** sometimes.


Edit: Oops, my bad, I thought you were CB so I must correct this. You actually post stupid **** all the time.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

If you want the Libertarian Party to rise, you have to kill one of the two major parties. By voting Democrat you're not trying to convince Democrats to agree with your ideas, you're showing Republicans that their religious nuttery, warmongering, and racism aren't going to fly. You could crush them into oblivion, and once they were relegated to a regional party there would be an opportunity for the Libertarian Party to step in and take their place.

There is no future for racism, homophobia, xenophobia, Islamophobia, misogyny, and religious extremism. There will always be a debate between fiscal conservativism, and fiscal liberalism, but the social liberalism should be a settled debate. If you call yourself a Libertarian you should no that. If you're voting for Republicans it's because your greed and selfishness outweigh all your other concepts of right and wrong.

What's sad is if you were capable of realizing all this then you'd likely also realize that it is the failure of your beloved free market which is making it virtually impossible for the libertarian party to rise in the first place. The irony is amazing.

At least with Libertarians versus Democrats we would have more of a means of getting out from under the oligarchy via common cause.

 

[PoS]

That's another question, but my personal opinion is that the attack would have happened anyway.

This. Im currently reading The Looming Tower, which is a non fiction book on the rise of Islamic fundamentalism and 9/11, and it seemed the entire country was just unprepared for what happened. Everybody just basically ignored Bin Laden's threat until it was too late.

 

[MrWonka]

You post some really stupid **** sometimes.

Good comeback.

Hmmm... let's see here. Bin Laden was killed under which President's Administration again? Was it Bush's or Obama's?

Bush was told that there were a bunch of middle easterners taking lessons to learn how to fly a plane without learning how to take off or land it. It's possible Gore could have taken that more seriously and looked into it a bit deeper.

Bush also sat there with a blank stare on his face after being told the first plane hit the tower. It's possible Gore could have jumped into action and started grounding planes or scrambling interceptors faster.

Can't be too sure, but it's not unreasonable to think it's at least possible Gore would have done more to prevent it considering how incompetent Bush was at everything else he did during his administration.

 

[MrWonka]

At least with Libertarians versus Democrats, we would have more of a means of getting out from under the oligarchy via common cause.

That's ludicrous. It is Democrats fighting against things like Citizen United. Libertarians think the magic of the free market is going to solve everything apparently not realizing that it's actually the free market that keeps libertarians from being viable candidates in the first place.