Have you ever regretted your vote for a US president?

[Lovebug]

Like I said, that will follow. You have to admit that the Putin thing is very odd. I'll be very surprised if there isn't a rest of the story.

Odd how? I see it as treating every world leader in different ways, keeping in mind their personality, their customs, their experience, decorum, etc. What we see is a façade meant for public consumption in order to enhance diplomatic relations. I don't doubt for a minute that Trump is aware that Putin is an enemy.
That reminds me of an episode of 'Scandal', (vague, from recollection) when Prez Fitz is standing next to a world leader, shaking hands, making nice, whispering in his ear "we just bombed the hell out of your ….facility".
We aren't privy to everything, we know little of what is happening behind the scenes, and we have to take the bits and pieces we are being told with a grain of salt. I withhold my opinion, willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt until more FACTS are known.

 

[Ikari]

I voted for Obama the first time, epic mistake. Turned out, he was just like all the rest.

lol

I remember when he was running and people were chanting the Hope and Change. I told them, he's a Chicago Politician. It doesn't get more corrupt than Chicago Politicians.

 

[cabse5]

This doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to deduce bro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice


Trump is already very obviously guilty of this.

FoxNews.com - Breaking News | Latest News | Current News

There have already been numerous members of Trump's campaign staff that have been indicted, not to mention a number of guilty pleas. If you seriously think that all these crooks are acting independently and that Trump had no idea what they were doing you're ****ing delusional.

In detective work, there is a saying called "To whom benefits." It's a simple reality that if you want to know who is guilty of a crime look to see who would benefit the most from that crime. We know that the DNC was hacked. We know it was Russia that did it. We know that benefitted Trump's campaign. We know that members of Trump's campaign were in contact with the Russians. We know that Trump is desperately trying to delegitimize the investigation. We know that Trump and Putin had a one on one private meeting. We know that Trump betrayed his country immediately following it, and took Putin's side.

If you seriously think Trump is clean you're living in an alternate reality.

Speaking of alternate realities, for example, Manafort is being prosecuted for money laundering IN 2006...yeah that has something to do with the 2016 election and Russian collusion.

 

[KevinKohler]

lol

I remember when he was running and people were chanting the Hope and Change. I told them, he's a Chicago Politician. It doesn't get more corrupt than Chicago Politicians.

Yeah. After that, I voted for Trump, and so far, no regrets, lol. I'm getting exactly what I thought I would.

 

[Linc]

Why? Because an oil crisis he had no control over, and a hostage situation developed as a result of blowback from decisions made by previous Republican administrations?

Exactly on these two points, as Reagan/Bush indeed interfered in the 1980 election with the Iran hostage crisis with its first cousin the Iran/Contra affair.

And of course demwits like Tip O’Neill let them off the hook, as we saw gops do throughout Clinton and Obama with their fake scandals promoted by Fox/Sinclair putin propaganda

 

[Ikari]

Yeah. After that, I voted for Trump, and so far, no regrets, lol. I'm getting exactly what I thought I would.

Trump is just the otherside of the Corporate-State coin. Just more of the same establishment nonsense except with no controls.

Trump will likely go down as the worst President we've ever had.

 

[cabse5]

Trump is just the otherside of the Corporate-State coin. Just more of the same establishment nonsense except with no controls.

Trump will likely go down as the worst President we've ever had.

I think, at least, BO will beat him for that moniker.

 

[Ikari]

I think BO will beat him for that moniker.

Absolutely not. Obama wan't good, but he wasn't Trump bad.

 

[btthegreat]

Attaching poll. If your answer is yes, who and why?

Yes but it would have been in the primaries. I have never voted for a Republican as President and I never regretted those decisions. I do not regret my votes for Sanders, then Stein.

I am a little unsure about my vote for Bill Clinton over Ralf Nader in 1996. I was hinky about Clinton' character disappointed that better dems had lostand he was too much of a centrist for my taste. On the other hand I was a great admirer of his political gifts, his intelligence and the potential he had.

Despite the misgivings, I just could not vote for Nader . I did not think he had the right temperament for the job, felt he was too left wing for American and me, and too uncompromising in style. andLastly, I could not get over Ralph talking about gay rights movement as 'gonad politics'.

I was too unsophisticated to understand the concept of 'strategic voting' back then. That sometimes its smart to use your vote to 'send a message' to your political party, if it will not likely impact the actual end result in your state.

 

[MrWonka]

How is voting for the one party Oligarchy the best way to bring rise to the Libertarian Party?

The Republican party is like an alcoholic or a drug abuser who refuses to admit it has a problem. In order for it to admit that it has a problem, it has to hit rock bottom. It has to be forced to realize that it can no longer win at all under its current iteration in order for it to begin the process of change. By throwing them a vote here and there or voting third party you're enabling them. You're helping them get away with their destructive behavior.

Donald Trump was a desperation move on the part of Republicans. After losing two consecutive elections to a black man named Barack Hussein Obama they were on the ropes and reeling. There were serious questions about whether or not they could ever win a national election again. As Demographics change in Democrats favor the thinking was that the Republican party was going the way of the dodo. They decided if they were going to go down they wanted to go down with the candidate that truly represented them.

But just like in the 2000 election a bunch of morons "voted their conscience" because they didn't like Gore and Hillary. They allowed Bush and Trump to sneak into office rather than give Democrats a third term. You breathed life into a dying party. If Republicans had lost a third or fourth straight national election they would have been desperate and had no choice, but to look inwardly and self-reflect. Instead, they are emboldened and now believe they truly are a silent majority.

By voting back and forth, or voting third party you're like a crutch for the Republican party. Help them die next time, and they will have no choice, but to start listening to you.

 

[lurchadams]

Yes, I voted for Reagan in '84. His Iran-contra debacle, his horrendous response to the AIDS epidemic alone are black marks on this nation's history. To those who say Reagan single-handedly ended the cold war, you're idiots. Reagan presided over it and was a cheerleader for it, but he wasn't responsible for it.

 

[Mithros]

I was 10 yrs old in 2000, just curious what was it about Gore back then that turned people off.

I won't vote Democrat, I don't support the OneParty Oligarchy.

The two party system has a lot of problems, but it also somewhat mitigates extremism. Two party systems require a majority (or pretty close to it) popular support.

A system with more than two parties requires a different voting systems (ie ranked ballot or proportional allocation). Otherwise elections are decided by pluralities. And since 30%+ of any population are going to be bat**** crazy, it's easy for extreme movements to take over.

The Nazis only won 43% of the vote in 1933, yet that was enough to end democracy. Their propaganda wasn't just to prop up their support. It was designed to exploit differences in their opposition so that even if the majority of Germany opposed them they couldn't do it with one coherent voice.

 

[MrWonka]

Exactly on these two points, as Reagan/Bush indeed interfered in the 1980 election with the Iran hostage crisis with its first cousin the Iran/Contra affair.

And of course demwits like Tip O’Neill let them off the hook, as we saw gops do throughout Clinton and Obama with their fake scandals promoted by Fox/Sinclair putin propaganda

And you blame Carter for this? So let me see if I got this straight. Republicans are evil, but you blame Democrats for not stopping them so you vote third party and make yourself the reason Democrats can't stop them? Genius man. Genius.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Yep. I voted for GWB the first time around and regretted it because I do think Gore would have been less bad. I also voted for Obama the first time around, but I felt more disappointed than regretful over that because I don’t think any of the alternatives would have done better.

 

[Ikari]

The Republican party is like an alcoholic or a drug abuser who refuses to admit it has a problem. In order for it to admit that it has a problem, it has to hit rock bottom. It has to be forced to realize that it can no longer win at all under its current iteration in order for it to begin the process of change. By throwing them a vote here and there or voting third party you're enabling them. You're helping them get away with their destructive behavior.

Donald Trump was a desperation move on the part of Republicans. After losing two consecutive elections to a black man named Barack Hussein Obama they were on the ropes and reeling. There were serious questions about whether or not they could ever win a national election again. As Demographics change in Democrats favor the thinking was that the Republican party was going the way of the dodo. They decided if they were going to go down they wanted to go down with the candidate that truly represented them.

But just like in the 2000 election a bunch of morons "voted their conscience" because they didn't like Gore and Hillary. They allowed Bush and Trump to sneak into office rather than give Democrats a third term. You breathed life into a dying party. If Republicans had lost a third or fourth straight national election they would have been desperate and had no choice, but to look inwardly and self-reflect. Instead, they are emboldened and now believe they truly are a silent majority.

By voting back and forth, or voting third party you're like a crutch for the Republican party. Help them die next time, and they will have no choice, but to start listening to you.

I don't vote back and forth, I vote Third Party.

The Democrats are no better than the Republican. Their OneParty Oligarchy is suffocating the Republic. Why would I support them?

Also, the GOP was never "on the ropes", that's dumb. The OneParty Oligarchy plays off of its two sides. It's nothing more than a see-saw. Right now the Republicans are in, and we'll eventually get pissed off at them and vote in the Dems. Then the Dems are going to do messed up things to expand government and bolster their power, and we'll get upset at them and we'll vote in the Republicans. Then after some time, we'll get pissed off at them and vote in the Dems.

The Republicans were never on the verge of dying off. There is far too much money, power, and beaurocracy vested into them for them to just die out. Particularly since the OneParty Oligarchy has shut out political competition, making it all but impossible for third parties to gain power. But still, what is there to do? I can not vote, in which the OneParty Oligarchy wins. I could vote for one of the parts of the OneParty Oligarchy, in which the OneParty Oligarchy wins, or I can vote Third Party, noting that I'm not going to get the candidates I want, but also noting that if you want change, you got to start somewhere. The only way for third parties to be competitive is to vote for them.

There's far more power in voting third party and more chance to influence the established Oligarchy through third party voting instead of Oligarchy voting.

You'll never change the Status-Quo by supporting the Status-Quo.

 

[MrWonka]

Absolutely not. Obama wasn't good, but he wasn't Trump bad.

Wouldn't it be awesome if today we had not good country instead of a bad country?

 

[trixare4kids]

I regret voting for Jimmy Carter. The only Democratic president worse than him was Obama.

 

[Ikari]

The two party system has a lot of problems, but it also somewhat mitigates extremism. Two party systems require a majority (or pretty close to it) popular support.

A system with more than two parties requires a different voting systems (ie ranked ballot or proportional allocation). Otherwise elections are decided by pluralities. And since 30%+ of any population are going to be bat**** crazy, it's easy for extreme movements to take over.

The Nazis only won 43% of the vote in 1933, yet that was enough to end democracy. Their propaganda wasn't just to prop up their support. It was designed to exploit differences in their opposition so that even if the majority of Germany opposed them they couldn't do it with one coherent voice.

We have "two" parties now, and Trump still only got 46% of the vote, so it seems regardless we're still stuck in that State.

I think that because of our system setup, we're always going to be stable at "two" main parties. But nothing said it must always be the same parties, and in order to be able to replace them then you need a healthy third party system as well that is allowed to participate and political competition is encouraged.

 

[Ikari]

Wouldn't it be awesome if today we had not good country instead of a bad country?

Not really, road to hell ends in the same place regardless of how fast you travel along it.

 

[Linc]

Someone once said that Algore had the personality of a cigar store Indian. It seemed close to the mark.

You may be noticing that farm-state repub politicians are feeling the heat today. Farm income — much worse when you calculate profit margin percentage — is now newly estimated to be DOWN 7.3%.

Until squishy Dems grow a spine and give no quarter to anything gop in the Senate, Grind it to a halt like McConnellism did; our Nation will continue to suffer.

gops have declared war on their own farmers. I’m prepared and fully able to fight this last good fight.

 

[Harshaw]

I have regretted my votes for local people (who won and made me regret it), but not for national people.

 

[MrWonka]

I don't vote back and forth, I vote Third Party.

Same thing.

The Democrats are no better than the Republican.

Then why did you just say this....?

Absolutely not. Obama wasn't good, but he wasn't Trump bad.

Their OneParty Oligarchy is suffocating the Republic. Why would I support them?

Republicans control the House, the Senate, the White House, and soon the Supreme Court. Your third-party opposition to the supposed Democrat OneParty Oligarchy did that. Nice work.

Also, the GOP was never "on the ropes", that's dumb.

No, it's reality. That's why they nominated Trump. They were desperate. They saw a moderate war hero in John McCain and a clean cut businessman in Mitt Romney lose back to back elections against a Black man, and they started to freak out. The establishment lost control, and the racist's extremists took over. They saw two Moderates lose, and convinced themselves the problem was that they were too moderate. So they went with an extremist. If the extremist had lost too the whole party would be in disarray. Instead, he won because of people like you. You convinced the extremists that they were right and that the problem all along was that their candidates weren't extreme enough.

When you helped elect Trump you started the cycle all over again. It will not take decades to destroy the Republican party. They'll need Trump to lose badly. Then they'll send up a couple of moderates. They'll have to be defeated again. Then they'll send up another extremist out of desperation. If we beat them all they'll be crushed, but that's going to take decades at this point.

The OneParty Oligarchy plays off of its two sides. It's nothing more than a see-saw.

Right, but you are contributing to the see-saw by hanging out in the middle. If you picked a side and stuck with it for a while you would crush the other side, and leave them desperately begging you for your vote.

Right now the Republicans are in, and we'll eventually get pissed off at them and vote in the Dems. Then the Dems are going to do messed up things to expand government and bolster their power, and we'll get upset at them and we'll vote in the Republicans. Then after some time, we'll get pissed off at them and vote in the Dems.

Do you not see how the back and forth keeps both alive? No party dies. They just lose power for a few years and then gain it right back. Stop the flipping. Vote Democrat consistently and you will kill the Republican party. Once it's dead Libertarians can rise.

The Republicans were never on the verge of dying off. There is far too much money, power, and beaurocracy vested into them for them to just die out.

If you prove to them that they can't win anymore then the money will look for another party.

There's far more power in voting third party and more chance to influence the established Oligarchy through third-party voting instead of Oligarchy voting.

You are delusional. Your third party vote makes you worthless and irrelevant. Like it or not you are the cause of the very problem you lament.

 

[MrWonka]

Not really, the road to hell ends in the same place regardless of how fast you travel along it.

But the Republican party never made it to hell. They were close, but thanks to your ignorance they never got there. As a result, they don't know what road they're on and won't change.

Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on what a Nash Equilibrium is. Until you understand these concepts you're not worth my time.

 

[iliveonramen]

Clearly not war-like tactics you say?

Sure, if you consider any negative diplomatic action "war-like".

Sanctions and political pressure are the alternative method of showing displeasure and punishing a country rather than escalate into a war.

 

[Ikari]

Same thing.

Not really, I just don't support your side of the OneParty Oligarchy and it seemingly upset you.

Then why did you just say this....?

Because it's easy to be slightly better than zero. Obama wasn't a good president, and the Democrats do not support my political philosophy nor move the Republic in a good direction. There's no reason for me to support them.

Republicans control the House, the Senate, the White House, and soon the Supreme Court. Your third-party opposition to the supposed Democrat OneParty Oligarchy did that. Nice work.

I didn't do that. My voting third party doesn't support the OneParty Oligarchy. Those voting the status quo did that, you can blame them.

No, it's reality. That's why they nominated Trump. They were desperate. They saw a moderate war hero in John McCain and a clean cut businessman in Mitt Romney lose back to back elections against a Black man, and they started to freak out. The establishment lost control, and the racist's extremists took over. They saw two Moderates lose, and convinced themselves the problem was that they were too moderate. So they went with an extremist. If the extremist had lost too the whole party would be in disarray. Instead, he won because of people like you. You convinced the extremists that they were right and that the problem all along was that their candidates weren't extreme enough.

When you helped elect Trump you started the cycle all over again. It will not take decades to destroy the Republican party. They'll need Trump to lose badly. Then they'll send up a couple of moderates. They'll have to be defeated again. Then they'll send up another extremist out of desperation. If we beat them all they'll be crushed, but that's going to take decades at this point.

They didn't vote Trump because they were on the ropes. They voted Trump because Trump is a conman and he conned people into thinking he was outside the Establishment, when in fact he's just part of it.

Right, but you are contributing to the see-saw by hanging out in the middle. If you picked a side and stuck with it for a while you would crush the other side, and leave them desperately begging you for your vote.

Those riding the see-saw are the ones contributing to it. I'm off playing on the monkey bars.

Do you not see how the back and forth keeps both alive? No party dies. They just lose power for a few years and then gain it right back. Stop the flipping. Vote Democrat consistently and you will kill the Republican party. Once it's dead Libertarians can rise.

Of course the see-saw keeps both alive. I'm not flipping, nor am I playing to the see-saw. The only way to truly get influence in the system is to start reversing the controls the OneParty Oligarchy put on things such as campaign finance and participation in the debates.

If you prove to them that they can't win anymore then the money will look for another party.

Yup, and if the Libertarian Party can aggregate enough votes to continually force the Republican arm of the OneParty Oligarchy to lose, then they will slide to recapture those votes. Which is one reason I vote Third party.

You are delusional. Your third party vote makes you worthless and irrelevant. Like it or not you are the cause of the very problem you lament.

You're delusional if you think that supporting the status-quo is going to change the status-quo.