Hats as Hate

[Thoreau72]

The reality is that most media just report the news and do not give opinions. The problem for many is that they don't like the news because it is harmful to what they believe in and as such, they will say the reporting is biased. For example, Trump has done so many reprehensible things that no opinion is needed. They are simply reprehensible by the nature of the action, and yet many will say that it is biased toward Trump. It is not.

Yes, our corporate owned media report the news they are told to report, as they are told to report it.

Evidence suggests the police reporting are not accurate, but Scott reports what the police have told him, no questions asked. It insults one's intelligence to listen to such idiots reporting such contradicted claims.

 

[Luckyone]

Yes, our corporate owned media report the news they are told to report, as they are told to report it.

Evidence suggests the police reporting are not accurate, but Scott reports what the police have told him, no questions asked. It insults one's intelligence to listen to such idiots reporting such contradicted claims.

I don't really know what you are talking about regarding this police reporting. What I am talking about is all the news about Trump that Trump supporters are saying is biased. The media reporting it may have bias against Trump but there is no need to show the bias since Trump's actions are as bad as the bias might suggest. Simply stated, just showing the action is enough to generate a strong bias among the public against Trump.

 

[veritas1]

All your comments are dopey responses. I said the truth, sorry you got butthurt about it.

No, you went off on some apoplectic fit over a red cap with four words on it. I wasn't butt hurt, just amused.:2razz:

 

[Logical1]

Just how much of a weak minded sheep do you have to be to be brainwashed into hating a cap by the MSM???????????? Sad.

 

[Logical1]

It really must cause the hate mongers in the MSM that millions see thru their lies. They tried their damnest to get people to hate school children and a simple red hat. Now anyone with any intelligence can see what fools they made of themselves. They got lead down the garden path of lies by an old fool indian left wing activist.

 

[AGENT J]

Nick Sandmann, a student at Covington Catholic, says he was a silent bystander in viral video. But his MAGA hat spoke for him.



I'd like to point out that this piece, while opinion, isn't on some off the wall blog or some "news" site with a well know and recognized political lean. It's from NBC.

This is what MAIN STREAM MEDIA is putting out to the public -


"Aligning oneself with Trump's movement is an aggressive political statement"

That's where we are today. The author then goes on to describe all kinds of incidents where a Trump supporter "taunted or attacked someone from a marginalized group". He does that while ignoring all the incidents where someone from the "Resistance" has attacked Trump supporters.

To call this kind of article disingenuous would be generous in the extreme. To see it promoted by NBC, one of the traditional bastions of broadcast journalism, really tells us where we are as a country and it tells us a WHOLE lot about where the major players in the media stand, politically. There really isn't much doubt at all any more that most of the broadcast and print media has become the propaganda arm of the political class. They aren't even hiding it any more.

Not sure why i would ever care since this is under opinion. For me since its under opinion it doesnt matter what journalist/news org it comes from, why would it really. Id there any solid reason for it to?
in dramatic terms do I agree that the hat = evil, nope of course not thats silly but at the same time it would be also as illogical to assume anybody wearing the hat = innocent

its an opinion piece :shrug: i can only go by my life experiences and ive never seen anybody wear the hat in real life not even trump supporters. Even the trump supporters i know have said themselves they would never wear the hate because they are not one of the nutters. again thats only their opinion but that came from trump supporters.

My point is to ignore the hat has a negative stigma associated with it because of what many people who wear it have said and done is to ignore reality and its just as ignorant and biased as claiming the hat MUST = evil.

You cant point out an opinion piece then go to use dramatic terminology like "promoted by NBC, one of the traditional bastions of broadcast journalism, really tells us where we are as a country and it tells us a WHOLE lot about where the major players in the media stand, politically." that pure hypocrisy and just as illogical as judging the hat all negative or positive.

Now do i agree that all news media has some bias some lean and is an issue in todays world of politics? absofreakinlutely! of course i do but this isnt an example of it or what i would use as some revolutionary clue like you false try to make it. Hell opinion pieces like this arent even new by any stretch of the imagination LOL

There are nutters that think all those kids are the devil or the hat = evil, there are nutters that think all those kids are innocent and did nothing wrong and theres zero reason to be suspicious of the hat and theres no negative stigma with it. the reality and truth is in the middle so ignore the nutters and dont placate to them or become one of them by claiming this opinion piece is some new eye opening monumental revelation thats never happened before and the sign of end of times. reality is this isnt new, its sad IMO but certainly not new.

Well the common sense I thought was true looks just like i thought. Its exactly what i have experienced in real life and other places on line

the vast major of people including right, left, center ann trump supporters acknowledge that a maga hat does have a negative stigma too it.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/345427-maga-hats-do-they-have-negative-hateful-stigma.html
the only honest and rational debate is how much and it seems its rational to say has little one to avg. one

Maga hat is certainly not EQUAL to hate that is silly but it most certainly will get attention and make people, including other trump supporters. wonder if you arae POSSIBLY a nutter based on all the other people who have said or done nutty things while wearing the hat. Thats just how a stigma works and in this case there is one. :shrug:

 

[Thoreau72]

I don't really know what you are talking about regarding this police reporting. What I am talking about is all the news about Trump that Trump supporters are saying is biased. The media reporting it may have bias against Trump but there is no need to show the bias since Trump's actions are as bad as the bias might suggest. Simply stated, just showing the action is enough to generate a strong bias among the public against Trump.

No problem. I understand your point regarding how the media treats Trump, and it's valid. He gives the media so much to work with, given their fascination with trivial and distracting 'news'.

The media serves the status quo, and those who work in media, while certainly 'good people', have sold their souls to the corporations who pay them. They may be 'good people' but they cannot think out of the box, if they can think at all.

 

[TheParser]

I don’t believe wearing a MAGA hat means somebody is a racist. But when you really think about what it means I can see how it might be considered “politically aggressive” by many people of color.

Why do I say that? What does it stand for? “Make America Great Again”. It is that “again” part that gives many minorities some concern. When do these hat wearers think America was great and when do they think it stopped being great? Often times what old white folks remember as the good old days was quite the opposite for minorities. Was it great before blacks had the right to vote? Before women could vote? Before women were allowed to have their own credit cards(1974)? Before mixed race relations were legal? Before it was legal to be gay? Before it was legal for gays to marry? When were the great days that your hat is saying you want to return to?

I have read posts 1 - 36.

I have decided to stop at No. 36.

The OP has calmly and rationally discussed the situation as far as I am concerned.

I live in So(uthern)Cal(ifornia). It would not be a good idea going around wearing a MAGA hat. There are always a few troublemakers who would use it as an excuse to verbally/physically attack the hat wearer. The majority of people probably could NOT care less, for they are too busy dealing with their personal concerns to waste their time on such matters. (I also suspect that most people in the South could not care less about those Civil War statutes. It's always the loudmouths on both sides that cause all the trouble.)

 

[Hypothetical]

wasnt in your conversation so i dont want to assume but yet i want to be clear on what i think you are saying so i have a simple question. and its a yes no question. we can GLADLY continue the conversation but for integrity and honesty all i need is a yes no then you are free explain and we are free to discuss as you like.

are you denying that the MAGA hat has a negative stigma on it based on what many people who wear it have said and done? yes or no

denying? no.

saying that it's stupid to assign hate and negative opinion to a piece of apparel that has no real negative history and who's negativity is based on an attempt to screw with a campaign slogan that anyone who takes at face value who is an American SHOULD be able to get behind? yes, most certainly.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

There was a time that jackasses like him would be relegated to the print "rags" and the bowels of the internet. Today you find him on NBC. It goes to show how far down the rabbit hole we have fallen.

While you’re at it, don’t forget the jackasses at Fox News, Breitbart, One America News Network, Rush Limbaugh, New York Post, and many others.

 

[Hypothetical]

do any of you know why it is so important for us to HAVE a legal system? to have legal versus illegal actions in a free country?

because we cannot trust the flitty flighty opinions of everyone to decide what is just and what is not on a consistent basis.

if they could, there would be no need for a legal system in a free country and everyone could just go off majority opinion about everyone else's actions.

if that came to reality, it would be the biggest nightmare any of us would ever have to live in.

its fine while your winning the opinion, but start losing and you're screwed.

 

[Luckyone]

No problem. I understand your point regarding how the media treats Trump, and it's valid. He gives the media so much to work with, given their fascination with trivial and distracting 'news'.

The media serves the status quo, and those who work in media, while certainly 'good people', have sold their souls to the corporations who pay them. They may be 'good people' but they cannot think out of the box, if they can think at all.

I don't know what you mean "out of the box" given that Trump is totally "out of the box" and just reporting what he does is way out of the box. I have never seen any person be so disruptive in a negative way as this man has been.

 

[Mason66]

I don't know what to think about people who wear the MAGA hats.

I do know that when I saw somebody wearing a "Yes We Can" hat I thought they were an uneducated person that had the mind of a child. I mean how else could they be taken in by that empty suit?

 

[AGENT J]

1.)denying? no.
2.) saying that it's stupid to assign hate and negative opinion to a piece of apparel
3.) that has no real negative history and who's negativity is based on an attempt to screw with a campaign slogan that anyone who takes at face value who is an American SHOULD be able to get behind? yes, most certainly.

1.) thanks for clarifying
2.) define "assign hate" . . i would agree that anybody that said its "equal" shouldnt and that is stupid. Anybody that thinks the hat shows a possibility or hate or nutterness is very logical as the poll seems to show. But it should never be concrete.
3.) that is simply not true. Even the trump supporters gave that exact reason why they feel it has a negative stigma. The number people that have been seen wearing it who were doing or saying vile things. SO no, not most certainly in anyway.

 

[Hypothetical]

1.) thanks for clarifying
2.) define "assign hate" . . i would agree that anybody that said its "equal" shouldnt and that is stupid. Anybody that thinks the hat shows a possibility or hate or nutterness is very logical as the poll seems to show. But it should never be concrete.
3.) that is simply not true. Even the trump supporters gave that exact reason why they feel it has a negative stigma. The number people that have been seen wearing it who were doing or saying vile things. SO no, not most certainly in anyway.

"even Trump supporters"... oh yes lets qualify our statement by speaking for "even" the people who mainly wear the hats... I see no proof of that.... by all means , point me to some examples of people doing Vile things on a regular basis in MAGA hats. and they had best be really vile, not a bunch of BS like waiting around and not immediately moving when someone bangs a drum in your face... and not some BS poll either that has been skewed to get a certain answer.

real instances. a lot of them

 

[AGENT J]

"even Trump supporters"... oh yes lets qualify our statement by speaking for "even" the people who mainly wear the hats... I see no proof of that.... by all means , point me to some examples of people doing Vile things on a regular basis in MAGA hats. and they had best be really vile, not a bunch of BS like waiting around and not immediately moving when someone bangs a drum in your face... and not some BS poll either that has been skewed to get a certain answer.

real instances. a lot of them

"you" dont have to see proof of that, thats how they feel and they are trump people. Your feelings dont matter to others. Are you not familiar with how a stigma works? Your feelings and opinions dont matter to others and vice versa. If enough people see the stigma then logically it is a legit stigma. The only honest debate is how little or big the stigma is and the answer to that seems little to avg, nothing drastic or concreate, just possible. if that bothers you thats your issue but ranting and having meltdowns about it wont make it go away. The stigma exists. :shrug:

 

[Hypothetical]

"you" dont have to see proof of that, thats how they feel and they are trump people. Your feelings dont matter to others. Are you not familiar with how a stigma works? Your feelings and opinions dont matter to others and vice versa. If enough people see the stigma then logically it is a legit stigma. The only honest debate is how little or big the stigma is and the answer to that seems little to avg, nothing drastic or concreate, just possible. if that bothers you thats your issue but ranting and having meltdowns about it wont make it go away. The stigma exists. :shrug:

stigmas can also be manufactured to lessen the effect of a good slogan also, or garner feelings of hate or resentment toward others so as to bring support to ones's own side. before we can debate this rationally I need to know what proof you are talking about.

what proof are you using to say Trump supporters said this or that? Most of the trump supporters I have seen have said it's silly to attach a stigma to a piece of apparel with no History at the least, or that it's untrue Trump supporters have been doing crazy things.

also, by what measure are you investigating the fact that these "trump supporters" are indeed what they say they are and not being dishonest?

 

[AGENT J]

1.)stigmas can also be manufactured to lessen the effect of a good slogan also, or garner feelings of hate or resentment toward others so as to bring support to ones's own side.
2.) before we can debate this rationally I need to know what proof you are talking about.
3.) what proof are you using to say Trump supporters said this or that? Most of the trump supporters I have seen have said it's silly to attach a stigma to a piece of apparel with no History at the least, or that it's untrue Trump supporters have been doing crazy things.
4.) also, by what measure are you investigating the fact that these "trump supporters" are indeed what they say they are and not being dishonest?

1.) all stigmas are manufacture and when that feeling becomes common or widespread enough thats when the stigma is legit
2.) youll have to be more specific . . proof of what? in this thread theres a link to a poll i started on the and people left right and center talking about how they feel about it and the majority feel the stigma exist and even trump supporters do.
3.) they ones that told me and ones that have posted here and said so
4.) well the ones i know are no doubt real, the ones that posters here have an established history of proving they are supporters. Are you trying for a vast conspiracy angle because you dont like what the logic and evidence supports

 

[ultmd]

Thank you, that is what I do--I ask questions regarding any given story, I examine as many sources as is practical, I am most skeptical of the statements of persons I have known to lie in the past, and I think for myself.

Our mainstream media has been corrupted for many long years. I prefer a source like Disobedient Media, and of course I love that name because it is so appropriate these days.

Disobedient Media? Seriously? :roll:

As if all of your previous posts in this thread had not already done so, your preference for a known right-wing conspiracy theory, fake news site like Disobedient Media certain confirms that you are not a rational thinker. Your disdain for the "MSM" is predicated upon emotions and anecdotal accounts of issues that you can't seem to back up. And that doesn't bother you?

Clearly, you're someone who seeks affirmation of his biases. That's the mark of an ideologue.

 

[ultmd]

...anything can mean anything to anyone, but I'll be damned if I will allow something with no inherent meaning of badness to be infused with it because of overly sensitive "offended" people.

:lamo You're not going to "allow" it, huh?

News flash: No one cares what you think. Your opinions are no more valid than those of the people who disagree with you. And you are no more entitled to impose your ideology on them, than they upon you. The MAGA slogan is justifiably identified as "badness" by most Americans, and there is really nothing you can do about that. That said, it's not as though anyone has attempted to deny others the right to wear MAGA hats. The problem here is that MAGA hat-wearing conservatives seem to believe that they should be entitled to "freedom from criticism". And the irony (read: hypocrisy) of that is that these are some of the SAME people who would have (or already have) mocked and ridiculed people who have worn "Yes we can!" hats or "BLM" t-shirts in recent years. You guys really need to stop being such Snowflakes about stuff like this.

both the swastika and the Confederate flag have actual mean history behind them, not MAGA.

MAGA has no actual negative (or "mean") history to it? Really? Says whom? You? Again...please, tap the brakes on this entitlement issue you have. :roll:

Do you honestly NOT understand that MOST Americans JUSTIFIABLY associate "MAGA" with bigotry and hostility toward racial and religious minorities, for example?

thus I have to assume as a reasonable person that being so "offended" is merely an attempt to control the narrative. when you go to the extent that you punish people in the court of public opinion for absolutely nothing other than people's asinine opinions you no longer have anything like a free country.

Wow. Well, let's see...

• -First, justifying your argument on your own self-proclaimed status as a "reasonable" person...is NOT a qualifier that should mean anything to me, or anyone else.
• -Next, what's wrong with trying to "control the narrative" or "punishing people in the court of public opinion"? That's what civic activism is all about. What do you think conservatives do (or have done) EVERY DAY with regard to issues like "the wall", abortion, climate change, tax cuts, affirmative action, voter "fraud", Birtherism, etc. etc.? Why is it that conservatives like you are such whimps about being "free speech" only when their oxes are being gored, huh?
• -A "free country" means that people are "free" to criticism and ostracize you, and conservatives like you are "free" to do the same to those who disagree with you. The problem here, as always, is that your side is great at demonizing and lying about "liberals" (and liberal policies and causes), but turns into a bunch of snowflakes as soon as those "liberals" criticize you and what you believe.

In short, you guys REALLY need to stop whining and (collectively) grow some stones.

 

[Hypothetical]

1.) all stigmas are manufacture and when that feeling becomes common or widespread enough thats when the stigma is legit
2.) youll have to be more specific . . proof of what? in this thread theres a link to a poll i started on the and people left right and center talking about how they feel about it and the majority feel the stigma exist and even trump supporters do.
3.) they ones that told me and ones that have posted here and said so
4.) well the ones i know are no doubt real, the ones that posters here have an established history of proving they are supporters. Are you trying for a vast conspiracy angle because you dont like what the logic and evidence supports

oh you started a poll... on the internet.. I see.

sorry, that doesn't meet My criteria of proof... and all the conservatives I See here are basically stating that any stigma toward this bit particular piece of apparel, to put it nicely, is a bit misconstrued.

 

[AGENT J]

1.) oh you started a poll... on the internet.. I see.
2.)sorry, that doesn't meet My criteria of proof...
3.)and all the conservatives I See here are basically stating that any stigma toward this bit particular piece of apparel, to put it nicely, is a bit misconstrued.

1.) yep thats one thing i said
2.) you are allowed to feel that way i wont be ignoring evidence, common sense and reality though
3.) but they didn't :shrug:

the reality is the MAGA Hat has a negative stigma associated with it(you already said so yourself) and the only honest debate is how little or big the stigma is. The answer to that seems little to avg, nothing drastic or concrete, just possible. AGain if this reality bothers you thats your issue. Also dont make more of it than it is . . its a negative stigma . . thats it . . .

 

[Thoreau72]

I don't know what you mean "out of the box" given that Trump is totally "out of the box" and just reporting what he does is way out of the box. I have never seen any person be so disruptive in a negative way as this man has been.

Regarding the thought processes of those in the media, 'out of the box' means the box in which they are allowed to discuss and report in. Using the excuse of being "fair and balanced", they are incapable of commenting or opining as to their government's perpetual war under fraud, or torture, or overthrowing governments and so much more. They operate in a moral vacuum, praising and enabling criminal policies of their government.

 

[Thoreau72]

Disobedient Media? Seriously? :roll:

As if all of your previous posts in this thread had not already done so, your preference for a known right-wing conspiracy theory, fake news site like Disobedient Media certain confirms that you are not a rational thinker. Your disdain for the "MSM" is predicated upon emotions and anecdotal accounts of issues that you can't seem to back up. And that doesn't bother you?

Clearly, you're someone who seeks affirmation of his biases. That's the mark of an ideologue.

No, my disdain for the MSM is predicated upon 40 years or more of viewing and otherwise consuming their pitiful product. My skepticism of their accuracy and their agenda has been validated many times over. I laugh, and clearly understand what William Casey of CIA was saying (a rare bit of truth) when he noted back in about 1981 that when everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts. The MSM very much enables those efforts.

Far out, a new label for me--I'm an ideologue. Thank you. I am an ideologue (I guess) for the ideal of constitutional governance. Maybe in the Goldwater tradition of Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

Maybe you can enlighten me and further define how I am an ideologue?

 

[Maccabee]

MAGA = racism. BTW saying "der" makes your comment look like it was written by a 4 year old.

No it doesn't equal racism.