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Hand Grenades and Gang Violence Rattle Sweden’s Middle Class

NonoBadDog

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Weapons from a faraway, long-ago war are flowing into immigrant neighborhoods here, puncturing Swedes’ sense of confidence and security. The country’s murder rate remains low, by American standards, and violent crime is stable or dropping in many places. But gang-related assaults and shootings are becoming more frequent, and the number of neighborhoods categorized by the police as “marred by crime, social unrest and insecurity” is rising. Crime and immigration are certain to be key issues in September’s general election, alongside the traditional debates over education and health care.
Part of the reason is that Sweden’s gang violence, long contained within low-income suburbs, has begun to spill out. In large cities, hospitals report armed confrontations in emergency rooms, and school administrators say threats and weapons have become commonplace. Last week two men from Uppsala, both in their 20s, were arrested on charges of throwing grenades at the home of a bank employee who investigates fraud cases.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/world/europe/sweden-crime-immigration-hand-grenades.html

The great EU immigration experiment continues.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...y-and-is-attributed-to-refugees-idUSKBN1ES16J
https://www.ft.com/content/e5064e70-1d44-11e8-aaca-4574d7dabfb6
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-03/germany-must-come-to-terms-with-refugee-crime

Who was that guy that said Sweden had an immigrant crime problem?
 

Grenades? How the hell did they get a hold of those? Unless those grenades got smuggled in from outside of Sweden. Wouldn't by whom be the next logical question?
 
Grenades? How the hell did they get a hold of those? Unless those grenades got smuggled in from outside of Sweden. Wouldn't by whom be the next logical question?

The border with Denmark is open, with insufficient personnel to search every vehicle entering the country. Hand grenades were, until last year, classified as “flammable products” rather than weapons, so sentences for detonating them were mild. The police are struggling to gather information in immigrant neighborhoods, and clearance rates for gun homicide cases have fallen steadily since the 1990s.

The Dayton peace agreement, which ended the Bosnian war, required paramilitaries to disarm and decommission their arsenals. Sellers in Bosnia and Serbia have networks in Sweden’s diaspora and are so eager to unload excess grenades, often rusted from decades in storage, that they throw them in free with the purchase of AK-47s, Mr. Appelgren said. In Sweden the street price of a hand grenade is 100 kroner, or $12.50.

Just remember, regardless of what anyone is saying about what is happening in the EU, open borders are good...... really..... quit laughing.
 

Uh, the grenade's victim was an immigrant. So was the kebab store owner who went outside to help. And weapons are also obviously contributing to the increase in crime.
 
Uh, the grenade's victim was an immigrant. So was the kebab store owner who went outside to help. And weapons are also obviously contributing to the increase in crime.

So?

1. They live in Sweden now. The government has welcomed them and now they are "Swedish."

2. This just points out one of the issues I have made about migrants vs. immigrants. Migrants don't come desiring to assimilate, they come to replant their old society in a new place...thus bring with them all their old issues and animosities that led to the flight in the first place.

...and people want that here in the USA too? :doh
 
Uh, the grenade's victim was an immigrant. So was the kebab store owner who went outside to help. And weapons are also obviously contributing to the increase in crime.

Of course you want to define the article to one incident. Does the crime still not exist in a place where it wouldn't if they had not been present? Does the derivation of the victim justify the incident? This isn't an isolated incident but I can see how people for open borders would like us to think that it was. Swedish resources are still being used to react to and mitigate the situation. I guess this is how the left justifies ignoring black on black crime also.
 
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The GOOD thing is that America has learned and we're moving to end immigration except for highly qualified and carefully investigated applicants.

Sweden learned the hard way and they will eventually (and INEVITABLY) have to move to deportation of troublemakers as Israel has done.
 
The GOOD thing is that America has learned and we're moving to end immigration except for highly qualified and carefully investigated applicants.

Sweden learned the hard way and they will eventually (and INEVITABLY) have to move to deportation of troublemakers as Israel has done.

And Germany, Italy, Belgium, UK, France, Denmark.......
 
Just remember, regardless of what anyone is saying about what is happening in the EU, open borders are good...... really..... quit laughing.

You really should at least try to gain perspective. European countries share borders with other countries that have or are going through civil wars. The reason MENA refugees are finding their way up there is that they simply have to walk. And barring gunning them down in the streets or at the borders, Europe is screwed having to deal with the problem. But this thread, like all the rest about European immigration issues, is all about the United States. This is where a clearer perspective would benefit.

Our immigrants come from Mexico and wish to pick our tomatoes, put up drywall, or start a lawn service. And unlike those who cross the Mediterranean into Europe, our Caribbean immigrants, who build rafts to float to Florida, do not come from an environment of mass conflict. But like those who cross the Mediterranean or walk across a border in Europe, they are seeking an escape from misery and arrive at socioeconomic opportunity. Our immigrants are not amassed together into living conditions that push an agenda of survival or encourage criminal activity as an answer to a host country's inadequate treatment. In fact, according to the studies, crime in immigrant neighborhoods tend to be very low because they tend to band together and hold each other accountable. And because Muslims are free to wear their traditional clothing, or build a mosque, or attend university, the United States does not provide Islamists a recruitment pool to exploit.

Europe's problems are Europe's problems because of Europe's geographic environment and government policies. Not simply because "open borders." The vast majority of all of France's problems, when it comes to Islamist terrorism, has come right out of the ghettos where they were born as Frenchmen. And hand grenades in Denmark or Sweden is a product of the black market. Why do you think, after spending decades trying to bring down the Soviet Union, we rushed to keep Russia together after the Cold War? That arsenal began to flood countries throughout Europe and Africa. The weapons of Bosnia, absent destruction, was going to go somewhere.

But Europe is not the U.S. We do not have "open" borders like what is seen in the EU. Europe's history of this involves an understanding that man-made borders greatly helped to encourage two World Wars and created great tension during the Cold War. Their history is not ours. We need to stop pretending that it is and we definitely need to stop wanting to mimic them when it comes to how to treat immigrants. If we want to draw out the worst in people, we only need to treat them like ****.


What I just wrote, off the top of my head cuz I'm so damn smart, is about perspective and context.
 
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So?

1. They live in Sweden now. The government has welcomed them and now they are "Swedish."

2. This just points out one of the issues I have made about migrants vs. immigrants. Migrants don't come desiring to assimilate, they come to replant their old society in a new place...thus bring with them all their old issues and animosities that led to the flight in the first place.

...and people want that here in the USA too? :doh

Who would have suspected that criminals are also adept liars and will swear allegiance (or affirm any oath) to respect any nation and do whatever they damn well please?
 
So?

1. They live in Sweden now. The government has welcomed them and now they are "Swedish."

2. This just points out one of the issues I have made about migrants vs. immigrants. Migrants don't come desiring to assimilate, they come to replant their old society in a new place...thus bring with them all their old issues and animosities that led to the flight in the first place.

...and people want that here in the USA too? :doh

What do you mean so? The OP said that Sweden has an immigrant crime problem because an immigrant committed a crime in Sweden. That's absurd. The populations of both Sweden and the US are overwhelmingly native-born; and crime in both countries is overwhelmingly committed by their native-born populations.

Asylum seekers and war refugees have been accepted into the US for many years. This renewed and manufactured fear about "other" people is political, not rational, and lacks a factual basis.
 
Our immigrants come from Mexico and wish to pick our tomatoes, put up drywall, or start a lawn service.

And like any tribal group, they want more power to control their destiny.

Political power.

And thus their number one goal is to increase their population to gain political control.

They have already done this in Southern California and are on the way in Texas, Arizona and Nevada.
 
And Germany, Italy, Belgium, UK, France, Denmark.......

They also learned that locking borders, which separated like people from each other and pushed unlike people together, or redrawing borders to extend sovereignty into foreign space, created two World Wars.

It is not about the immigrant. It is about the policies. Europe is a mess because it does not have a history of building nations on the backs of immigrants. It has constantly sought to define nationality on the basis of look, religion, and culture. We have a history where we sought to do that too (late 19th, early 20th), but we did not push such things to extremes. This is Europe's mistake. While we whine about incoming Irishmen, Mexicans, or Middle Easterners, we fail to recognize that our complaining is superficial and ignorant.
 
And like any tribal group, they want more power to control their destiny.

Political power.

And thus their number one goal is to increase their population to gain political control.

They have already done this in Southern California and are on the way in Texas, Arizona and Nevada.

Ah, the "they" argument that hinges on the delusion that they come together to hold secret meetings and scheme about America's downfall and their rise.

America the "brave." You really can't see that it is your attitude that is tribal?
 
And because Muslims are free to wear their traditional clothing, or build a mosque, or attend university, the United States does not provide Islamists a recruitment pool to exploit.

Apparently you haven't heard about the Somalis in Minnesota.

These Somalis are probably the most pampered in the world (proven by the fact that they have swarmed to Minnesota in huge numbers).......and the most ungrateful and bellicose.

Rethink your prejudices.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneapolis-community-struggles-with-isis-recruiting-tactics/
 
Ah, the "they" argument that hinges on the delusion that they come together to hold secret meetings and scheme about America's downfall and their rise.

America the "brave." You really can't see that it is your attitude that is tribal?

We are all tribal. That's the problem. It's a human trait.

They don't have to hold meetings. Their needs are obvious and their response is totally predictable.
 
Just remember, regardless of what anyone is saying about what is happening in the EU, open borders are good...... really..... quit laughing.

Naw...all these reports of crime like rape and dead people are just myths created by Alex Jones. Nothing to see here.
 
Uh, the grenade's victim was an immigrant. So was the kebab store owner who went outside to help. And weapons are also obviously contributing to the increase in crime.

Oh, OK...that means it's OK that there are grenades floating around :confused:
 
Sweden’s murder rate is 1.1 per 100 000 compared to 4.9 for USA. You can also compare cities there the murder rate is 3.4 for Malmö compared to 59 for St. Louis per 100 000 people.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/...tion-in-sweden-compared-to-the-us-in-4-charts

Sweden is also the 18:th safest countries in the world according to World Atlas.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/safest-countries-in-the-world.html

While Malmö with a lot of immigrants is one seventh place in Europes then it comes to happiness amongst its people.

The 19 happiest cities in Europe, according to the people who live there | The Independent

Sweden also have a very strong, innovative and competitive economy. For example, that it’s the best country for business according to Forbes.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017...ost-other-countries-at-just-about-everything/

Sweden is the best in the world at pretty much everything - Business Insider Nordic

Sweden is also one of the countries with the highest employment rates.

https://data.oecd.org/emp/employment-rate.htm

While at the same time being one of the best countries to raise a family, like for example having 480 days of parental leave.

https://sweden.se/society/10-things-that-make-sweden-family-friendly/

This after being one of the European countries that taking in the most refugees during the last thirty years. So, all this above can be good to consider then discussing the problem Sweden have. That any countries in the world of course have their problems and things that can become better.

Like for example to deal with gangs and their use of guns and hand grenades. Their you need both more stricter laws and better custom controls.

While also do more to fight segregation and poverty. That just like other western countries Sweden have been affected by the last couple of decades of neo liberal policies.

With for example big tax cuts mostly to the wealthy and cuts to government program. As well as less access to affordable rented apartments especially in attractive part of the cities and towns, leading to more segregations.

Then it comes to refugees and immigrations Sweden is part of the EU very strict outer border control. So besides 2015 then Turkey no longer wanted to act as border guard for EU, EU have taking few of the world’s immigrants.

That why Sweden have taking in more refugees is because refugees can get a better start here and for example reunited with their families while other EU countries have done everything to discourage refugees. In combination with that EU have no inner border controls just like Americans states so Sweden have taking a much bigger share of the refugees that are able to get to EU. Because Sweden have been a better option for those refugees.
 
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They also learned that locking borders, which separated like people from each other and pushed unlike people together, or redrawing borders to extend sovereignty into foreign space, created two World Wars.

It is not about the immigrant. It is about the policies. Europe is a mess because it does not have a history of building nations on the backs of immigrants. It has constantly sought to define nationality on the basis of look, religion, and culture. We have a history where we sought to do that too (late 19th, early 20th), but we did not push such things to extremes. This is Europe's mistake. While we whine about incoming Irishmen, Mexicans, or Middle Easterners, we fail to recognize that our complaining is superficial and ignorant.

You are comparing white, Christian immigrants to black Muslim immigrants.

L O FREAKING L!

Get real.

You are comparing apples with poisoned apples.
 
Of course you want to define the article to one incident. Does the crime still not exist in a place where it wouldn't if they had not been present? Does the derivation of the victim justify the incident? This isn't an isolated incident but I can see how people for open borders would like us to think that it was. Swedish resources are still being used to react to and mitigate the situation. I guess this is how the left justifies ignoring black on black crime also.

The article you posted was about one incident. Do you want to talk about other incidents? Why don't you find all the crimes that were committed on the day that Mr. Zuniga died, the people who committed them, and we can go through them one by one?

To say that permitting immigration causes crime is like saying washing my car is an invitation for its theft. You can't prevent all crime. By focusing on sporadic crimes committed by immigrants and disregarding the vast majority of crimes committed by non-immigrants, you're simply fabricating an "us versus them" mentality based on national borders often arbitrarily drawn onto maps and not doing anything meaningful related to crime prevention and recovery.

Do the victim's origin and race justify the incident? No. Neither do the perpetrator's origin and race explain it. You're arguing against yourself, accidentally, I presume.

I don't know what your open borders nonsense has to do with anything except that Sweden has open borders. In fact, I don't know a single person who advocates for the US to "open" its borders nor will that ever even be considered in the US. I also dismiss your disingenuous claim about isolated incidents. You're artificially enraged about a grenade explosion in Sweden while you offer nothing related to the overwhelming majority of crimes committed by native-born citizens. This is just another anti-immigrant thread for people who don't like people who aren't like them.
 
That why Sweden have taking in more refugees is because refugees can get a better start here and for example reunited with their families while other EU countries have done everything to discourage refugees. In combination with that EU have no inner border controls just like Americans states so Sweden have taking a much bigger share of the refugees that are able to get to EU:

The real problem is that it's impossible to blend a toxic and violent subculture into the normal Swedish culture.

The Muslim subculture self-segregates and they create crime and chaos while waiting to gain enough numbers to take control.

THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF BLENDING IN OR BEING GOOD SWEDES........THEY ONLY WANT TO TAKE OVER AND ESTABLISH THEIR OWN DYSFUNCTIONAL CULTURE IN SWEDEN.

The Swedes are learning this the hard way.

Horrible problems on the way.
 
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