Half a billion for California off-shore wind turbines

[longview]

I'll talk to you about this after you study more about the potential roles of the public and private sectors.

Do you think something’s economic viability changes because someone else is paying for it?

 

[Helix]

Do you think something’s economic viability changes because someone else is paying for it?

You didn't study.

 

[longview]

You didn't study.

You have not shown that the public sector is immune from being required to be economically viable!

 

[Helix]

You have not shown that the public sector is immune from being required to be economically viable!

We'll talk about it once you expand your knowledge.

 

[longview]

I'll talk to you about this after you study more about the potential roles of the public and private sectors.

You have not supported your position!

 

[Helix]

You have not supported your position!

Half a billion for California off-shore wind turbines

Companies have to pay to maintain the infrastructure, otherwise there will be no infrastructure. A project is ether economically viable or it is not, subsidies do not count, as they will eventually go away. Price guarantees cause the cost of goods sold to increase, and will impact the consumer...

debatepolitics.com

 

[longview]

Half a billion for California off-shore wind turbines

Companies have to pay to maintain the infrastructure, otherwise there will be no infrastructure. A project is ether economically viable or it is not, subsidies do not count, as they will eventually go away. Price guarantees cause the cost of goods sold to increase, and will impact the consumer...

debatepolitics.com

As I said you have not supported your position!

 

[Helix]

As I said you have not supported your position!

Let's quote each other until it gets boring.

Well, shit. It's already boring.

 

[longview]

Let's quote each other until it gets boring.

Well, shit. It's already boring.

You seem to think that because a service is in the public sector it would be immune from the requirement
that it be economically viable, but that is simply not true.
Whatever deficits that arise from operations, would have to be compensated for by someone,
ether the consumer or the taxpayer.
A company pointing out that something like a wind farm is not economically viable (Unsustainable) without subsidies,
should be a red flag for anyone proposing additional windfarms, and at very least a reason to look over what went wrong.

As for Northern California, the first question should be why is a federal grant necessary to kick off wind development?
If a wind power project were viable, companies would be submitting proposals to do the job without needing a grant.

 

[Helix]

You seem to think that because a service is in the public sector it would be immune from the requirement
that it be economically viable, but that is simply not true.
Whatever deficits that arise from operations, would have to be compensated for by someone,
ether the consumer or the taxpayer.
A company pointing out that something like a wind farm is not economically viable (Unsustainable) without subsidies,
should be a red flag for anyone proposing additional windfarms, and at very least a reason to look over what went wrong.

As for Northern California, the first question should be why is a federal grant necessary to kick off wind development?
If a wind power project were viable, companies would be submitting proposals to do the job without needing a grant.

Profit is not the primary motive of a public sector entity. This is common knowledge.

 

[longview]

Profit is not the primary motive of a public sector entity. This is common knowledge.

Net profits no, gross profits are!
Public sector businesses have to make enough to sustain operations.
If they cannot, they must ether be subsidized, or increase the cost of the service.
The postal service regularly increases the price of a first class stamp, they have to justify
this by showing the costs have increased.
If a company producing electricity cannot cover the cost of their operations with the price they sell
the electricity for, they will ether increase the price to the consumer (Like the post office) or be subsidized
by taxpayers at some level.
Both public and private sector entities must cover the cost of their operations.
Think of it this way, just because a company in non profit, does not mean their employees are not compensated.
Non profit, simply means that at the end of the year, the costs and the profits equal.

 

[Helix]

Net profits no, gross profits are!
Public sector businesses have to make enough to sustain operations.
If they cannot, they must ether be subsidized, or increase the cost of the service.
The postal service regularly increases the price of a first class stamp, they have to justify
this by showing the costs have increased.
If a company producing electricity cannot cover the cost of their operations with the price they sell
the electricity for, they will ether increase the price to the consumer (Like the post office) or be subsidized
by taxpayers at some level.
Both public and private sector entities must cover the cost of their operations.
Think of it this way, just because a company in non profit, does not mean their employees are not compensated.
Non profit, simply means that at the end of the year, the costs and the profits equal.

I've already posted my answer.

 

[longview]

I've already posted my answer.

Then repost, and describe why you think I am incorrect?
Why would a public sector entity, not be required to cover their own costs?

 

[Helix]

Then repost, and describe why you think I am incorrect?
Why would a public sector entity, not be required to cover their own costs?

See if you can extrapolate it.

 

[longview]

See if you can extrapolate it.

How about you, show how a public entity who cannot cover their own costs will stay in business?
I think my point is very clear, it is you who are being evasive.

 

[Helix]

How about you, show how a public entity who cannot cover their own costs will stay in business?
I think my point is very clear, it is you who are being evasive.

I think that you can read what I already wrote.

How long do you want to keep quoting each other?

 

[longview]

I think that you can read what I already wrote.

How long do you want to keep quoting each other?

I am not quoting you right now, it is you who has not made your point!

 

[Helix]

I am not quoting you right now, it is you who has not made your point!

If we're trapped in an endless loop, can we at least talk about something interesting?

 

[longview]

If we're trapped in an endless loop, can we at least talk about something interesting?

How about you cite the post # where you endowed us with this amazing piece of wisdom
that you are implying allows a public entity to escape from the requirement to cover their own costs (Gross profit)?

 

[Helix]

How about you cite the post # where you endowed us with this amazing piece of wisdom
that you are implying allows a public entity to escape from the requirement to cover their own costs (Gross profit)?

I'm not going to repeat myself until you decide that you're satisfied. If you can't figure out the answer to your question by reading what I've already posted, then feel free to sit there being confused until Gabriel blows the judgement trump.

 

[longview]

I'm not going to repeat myself until you decide that you're satisfied. If you can't figure out the answer to your question by reading what I've already posted, then feel free to sit there being confused until Gabriel blows the judgement trump.

Let review you already wrote, for your supposed point, in responses to me.
Strange I do not see a comment that would change the requirement that a public sector entity would need to cover their own costs?
perhaps you can point out which post it was that you showed this?

#26 I'd rather that the public sector handle it so that we don't have to focus on pissing and moaning about profit.

#32 When it's a national security issue, profit is secondary at most.

#34 You understand what "public sector" means, right?

#36 A public sector energy production entity would not be a monopoly.

#38 You're arguing against an argument that I didn't argue for. Do you know what that's called?

#47 You're intelligent, so I don't believe that you don't understand my argument.

#50 I'll talk to you about this after you study more about the potential roles of the public and private sectors.

#52 You didn't study.

#54 We'll talk about it once you expand your knowledge.

#58 Let's quote each other until it gets boring.

Well, shit. It's already boring.

#60 Profit is not the primary motive of a public sector entity. This is common knowledge.

#62 I've already posted my answer.

#64 See if you can extrapolate it.

#66 I think that you can read what I already wrote.

How long do you want to keep quoting each other?

#68 If we're trapped in an endless loop, can we at least talk about something interesting?

 

[Helix]

Let review you already wrote, for your supposed point, in responses to me.
Strange I do not see a comment that would change the requirement that a public sector entity would need to cover their own costs?
perhaps you can point out which post it was that you showed this?

Please go to college and learn the difference between the public and private sectors, their uses, and how they operate. See you in four years.

 

[longview]

Please go to college and learn the difference between the public and private sectors, their uses, and how they operate. See you in four years.

Worked at both, one was a University. it is you who do not have any idea on how public sector entities operate.
They must justify their cost to taxpayers, or must over their own cost.
Several decades ago, I chaired the advisory board for a public sector technical college.
Yes the college cost the state more than they brought in with tuition and fees, but
we could justify the use of taxpayer funds, by showing that each tax dollar spent, would generate $33 in extra
tax revenue. People with a college degree earned more than people with just a high school diploma.
When people earned more they purchased more, and paid more sales taxes.
As for wind turbines that generate electricity, the sales price of the electricity, must cover the cost
of servicing the debt (Yes public sector entities can have bond debt), maintaining the turbines, and paying the support staff.
There is little benefit in subsidizing power generation. Ether the power plant can produce competitive
priced electricity that covers their cost, or they cannot. If they cannot then we need to look at better ways to spend the peoples money.
I really like home grid tied solar, I think it has more potential for an actual distributed supply.
With grid scale seasonal energy storage, solar could be a path to our sustainable energy future,
I am not sure wind power in the current design will be part of that mix.

 

[Helix]

Worked at both, one was a University. it is you who do not have any idea on how public sector entities operate.
They must justify their cost to taxpayers, or must over their own cost.
Several decades ago, I chaired the advisory board for a public sector technical college.
Yes the college cost the state more than they brought in with tuition and fees, but
we could justify the use of taxpayer funds, by showing that each tax dollar spent, would generate $33 in extra
tax revenue. People with a college degree earned more than people with just a high school diploma.
When people earned more they purchased more, and paid more sales taxes.
As for wind turbines that generate electricity, the sales price of the electricity, must cover the cost
of servicing the debt (Yes public sector entities can have bond debt), maintaining the turbines, and paying the support staff.
There is little benefit in subsidizing power generation. Ether the power plant can produce competitive
priced electricity that covers their cost, or they cannot. If they cannot then we need to look at better ways to spend the peoples money.
I really like home grid tied solar, I think it has more potential for an actual distributed supply.
With grid scale seasonal energy storage, solar could be a path to our sustainable energy future,
I am not sure wind power in the current design will be part of that mix.

There is great benefit in producing power, as it's a national security issue. Profit is a nice to have, but it shouldn't be the top priority. With a public sector energy production competitor, it wouldn't have to be.

 

[longview]

There is great benefit in producing power, as it's a national security issue. Profit is a nice to have, but it shouldn't be the top priority. With a public sector energy production competitor, it wouldn't have to be.

You misunderstand the difference between gross profit and net profit!
Also the idea this is a national security issue is limited to the continued reliable supply of elecctricity,
something that a wind power plant is not very good at (See capacity factor)
EIA today in Energy

The average capacity factor of U.S. wind generators (35% in 2021) is lower than the average capacity factor of nuclear generators (93% in 2021), which are designed to run at or near full output, which they typically do.

So from a national security perspective, Nuclear and combined cycle natural gas power plants would
provide much better stability!