Gutiérrez Lashes Out After DACA Move: John Kelly Is ‘A Disgrace To The Uniform’

[ALiberalModerate]

Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-IL) on Tuesday called White House Chief of Staff John Kelly a “hypocrite who is a disgrace to the uniform he used to wear” after President Donald Trump ended the DACA program earlier in the day.DACA, short for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, protects nearly 800,000 young undocumented immigrants from deportation. Though the White House claimed Tuesday that DACA recipients will not be priorities for deportation once their permits expire, similar promises have not been reflected in the past in immigration agents’ arrest records.
Before accepting Trump’s offer to become chief of staff, Kelly led the Department of Homeland Security, where he oversaw the Trump administration’s amped-up efforts to arrest and deport undocumented people, including those found only to have violated civil immigration law.


“General Kelly, when he was the head of Homeland Security, lied straight to the faces of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus about preventing the mass deportation of DREAMers,” Gutiérrez wrote in a statement Tuesday. “Now as Chief of Staff, this former general is executing the plan to take away their lifeline and taking steps to criminalize young people who live and work here legally.”
“General Kelly is a hypocrite who is a disgrace to the uniform he used to wear,” he continued. “He has no honor and should be drummed out of the White House along with the white supremacists and those enabling the President’s actions by ‘just following orders.’”

Read more here: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/gutierrez-kelly-disgrace-to-the-uniform

Look, I think ending DACA is practically unconscionable. However, what Gutierrez is saying about General Kelly is beyond the pale. In fact, it is absolutely shameful. The man has served this country and lost a son in the service of this country. Shame on Rep. Gutierrez.

 

[Roadvirus]

Who cares what Gutiérrez has to say. He's a Pro-Open Borders moron.
The only reason he keeps getting re-elected is because his district includes Crook County.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Appeals to emotion is all that such Progressive's have as arguments.

DACA was a Presidential policy established by Obama in 2012 under Executive decree, refusing to enforce existing immigration law.

Yet it is Congress that makes such laws, and the Executive branch is supposed to enforce them.

While DACA was still Executive policy, Kelly was right to say he would abide by it.

Once DACA is rescinded by the President, Kelly is right to then state he will enforce the original laws to the best of his ability.

The thing I don't understand with globalist ideology is that if "we are the world," then why is it problematic for people to be sent back the their section of origin?

Why must OUR borders be open to the BILLIONS of people in "less advanced" areas, placing a strain on what we have until we become as bad as those other areas remain?

Don't people understand that our standard of living exists because we remain exclusive?

If not, then why is it so hard for people elsewhere in the world to simply emulate our successes locally?

Now cue the "What harm can 800,000 'Kids' already here do?"

My answer? Serve as a beacon for tens of millions of others and their parents to flood the nation hoping for a similar amnesty, that's what the harm is.

Kinda like how prior amnesties created the current situation. :coffeepap:

 

[Thoreau72]

Who cares what Gutiérrez has to say. He's a Pro-Open Borders moron.
The only reason he keeps getting re-elected is because his district includes Crook County.

Who cares what John Kelly has to say? I do not. Or John Brennan or the rest of the crooks who run this government.

 

[joG]

Read more here: Gutiérrez Lashes Out After DACA Move: John Kelly Is ‘A Disgrace To The Uniform’ – Talking Points Memo

Look, I think ending DACA is practically unconscionable. However, what Gutierrez is saying about General Kelly is beyond the pale. In fact, it is absolutely shameful. The man has served this country and lost a son in the service of this country. Shame on Rep. Gutierrez.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Are the obamas paying for the costs of keeping the kids in the countrt? How much are you paying? I won't say it's unconscionable ot anything but don't you think the arguments are important here?

 

[JamesBY]

Shame on Gutierrez for saying what he did about Kelly.

Shame on Kelly if he helps carry out Trumps' ending of DACA.

 

[chuckiechan]

Read more here: Gutiérrez Lashes Out After DACA Move: John Kelly Is ‘A Disgrace To The Uniform’ – Talking Points Memo

Look, I think ending DACA is practically unconscionable. However, what Gutierrez is saying about General Kelly is beyond the pale. In fact, it is absolutely shameful. The man has served this country and lost a son in the service of this country. Shame on Rep. Gutierrez.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Well, Gutierrez is a disgrace to Mexico!

Mexico is corrupt to the core. Trump is telling congress to write a law to get him out of the EO that Obama created. Gutierrez, aren't you a congressman? It's your job to stand up Mr. Machoman, and put your finger on the "Yes", "No", or "Obama" button ("Present").

Don't expect Trump to cover your ass forever.

 

[Chomsky]

Read more here: Gutiérrez Lashes Out After DACA Move: John Kelly Is ‘A Disgrace To The Uniform’ – Talking Points Memo

Look, I think ending DACA is practically unconscionable. However, what Gutierrez is saying about General Kelly is beyond the pale. In fact, it is absolutely shameful. The man has served this country and lost a son in the service of this country. Shame on Rep. Gutierrez.[/FONT][/COLOR]

I think a large part of the problem here, is the Dreamers had to come forward out of the shadows by filling out the federal paperwork disclosing all their personal & private info, thereby baring themselves and making themselves vulnerable.

Now the government, in part through Kelly, reneged on their promise. And that's a big deal. It makes our government appear untrustworthy.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I think a large part of the problem here, is the Dreamers had to come forward out of the shadows by filling out the federal paperwork disclosing all their personal & private info, thereby baring themselves and making themselves vulnerable.

Now the government, in part through Kelly, reigned on their promise. And that's a big deal. It make our government appear untrustworthy.

I totally agree with that. My problem is with Gutierrez's rhetoric. You don't call someone that does something you don't like "a disgrace to the uniform", particularly when that person lost a son fighting for this country. This is exactly the kind of despicable behavior Trump was rightly condemned for.

 

[Chomsky]

I totally agree with that. My problem is with Gutierrez's rhetoric. You don't call someone that does something you don't like "a disgrace to the uniform", particularly when that person lost a son fighting for this country. This is exactly the kind of despicable behavior Trump was rightly condemned for.

I think that's fair, despite my earlier post chalking it up to political rhetoric.

I sure would like more civility in politics, but the voters made their choice and this looks like the new norm.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I think a large part of the problem here, is the Dreamers had to come forward out of the shadows by filling out the federal paperwork disclosing all their personal & private info, thereby baring themselves and making themselves vulnerable.

Now the government, in part through Kelly, reneged on their promise. And that's a big deal. It makes our government appear untrustworthy.

Untrustworthy to who? People who broke our laws in the first place?

It was Obama's action in doing by Executive policy what CONGRESS was supposed to do via legislation.

HE made a promise that was not kept past the end of his administration. HE holds the blame for taking this tack rather than convincing Congress to do the job.

The law is the law, and should not be suborned by either Executive action or inaction, regardless of who the President is (even Trump).

However, one platform Trump was elected on was stronger Immigration policy. Eliminating DACA is merely in keeping with that particular promise.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Are the obamas paying for the costs of keeping the kids in the countrt? How much are you paying? I won't say it's unconscionable ot anything but don't you think the arguments are important here?

OK, this thread was not meant to be about DACA, but rather about what was said by Gutierrez, but yes, throwing someone out of this country when they were brought here has a young child, and this is the only country they have ever really known, is unconscionable. We are talking about kids that grew up here, went to school here, all their friends are here, they very well could be working hard here and contributing to this country, and simple because they came here because their parents brought them here illegally, we are going to throw them out and send them back to a country they have never even known, is absolutely unconscionable.

As to paying for. They are probably paying for it themselves. Its not like illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. Why the hell do you think they share social security numbers? They income and fica taxes withheld, they just don't file to anything back. As to me "paying for it". We are an upper middle class household, I assure you we pay a health tax rate every year.

 

[digsbe]

Obama refusing to enforce immigration law via DACA was a disgrace to the office. Gutiérrez is just being an angry, ignorant Democrat.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Untrustworthy to who? People who broke our laws in the first place?

It was Obama's action in doing by Executive policy what CONGRESS was supposed to do via legislation.

HE made a promise that was not kept past the end of his administration. HE holds the blame for taking this tack rather than convincing Congress to do the job.

Have you ever even one time on here found fault in any action by the Trump Administration? For crying out loud, what exactly are you "libertarian left" on?

These are kids that came here through no fault of their own. You are making kids pay for their parents crimes: "Hey kids, I know this country is the only home you can remember. I know you only speak English, you do well in school, and all your friends are here, but since your parents came here illegally when you were little, you get the **** out and go back to some third world ****hole."

As to emotion in the argument, its people's lives. Of course emotion factors into it. The only people that don't factor in emotion when dealing with the lives of others are sociopaths. However, just the same, lets look at the facts. The population growth rate for the United States is 0.7%. That is hardly unsustainable. The net illegal immigration rate is less than 0, and has been for years. That is hardly unsustainable. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

In fact, the population growth rate for the United States is so low, the lowest its been since the late 1930s, that if anything that is what is unsustainable economically. Finally, this debate has nothing to do with illegal immigration in general. I am all for doing more to stop people from illegally coming here and to do a better job of tracking people that come here on temporary visas so we know when they overstay (which is the real problem). However, what I am not for is throwing kids out that came here through no fault of their own, and who have spent most if not all of their childhoods here.

As to congress. Even Trump can't get anything through this Republican congress. Do you honestly think that Obama could have gotten DACA through the nativist Republican congress?

 

[Chomsky]

Untrustworthy to who? People who broke our laws in the first place?

It was Obama's action in doing by Executive policy what CONGRESS was supposed to do via legislation.

HE made a promise that was not kept past the end of his administration. HE holds the blame for taking this tack rather than convincing Congress to do the job.

The law is the law, and should not be suborned by either Executive action or inaction, regardless of who the President is (even Trump).

However, one platform Trump was elected on was stronger Immigration policy. Eliminating DACA is merely in keeping with that particular promise.

Untrustworthy to those who came forward and submitted their identities via the paperwork.

You're attempting to place blame, whereas I'm simply stating abject fact. The Dreamers and others will no longer trust the government.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Untrustworthy to those who came forward and submitted their identities via the paperwork.

You're attempting to place blame, whereas I'm simply stating abject fact. The Dreamers and others will no longer trust the government.

Heaven forbid that many people on here step outside of their ideology for a moment and deal with the world as it is.

"Most people would rather die than think; many do." -Bertrand Russell

 

[Captain Adverse]

Have you ever even one time on here found fault in any action by the Trump Administration? For crying out loud, what exactly are you "libertarian left" on?

These are kids that came here through no fault of their own. You are making kids pay for their parents crimes: "Hey kids, I know this country is the only home you can remember. I know you only speak English, you do well in school, and all your friends are here, but since your parents came here illegally when you were little, you get the **** out and go back to some third world ****hole."

As to emotion in the argument, its people's lives. Of course emotion factors into it. The only people that don't factor in emotion when dealing with the lives of others are sociopaths. However, just the same, lets look at the facts. The population growth rate for the United States is 0.7%. That is hardly unsustainable. The net illegal immigration rate is less than 0, and has been for years. That is hardly unsustainable. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

In fact, the population growth rate for the United States is so low, the lowest its been since the late 1930s, that if anything that is what is unsustainable economically. Finally, this debate has nothing to do with illegal immigration in general. I am all for doing more to stop people from illegally coming here and to do a better job of tracking people that come here on temporary visas so we know when they overstay (which is the real problem). However, what I am not for is throwing kids out that came here through no fault of their own, and who have spent most if not all of their childhoods here.

As to congress. Even Trump can't get anything through this Republican congress. Do you honestly think that Obama could have gotten DACA through the nativist Republican congress?

:spin:

Appeals to emotion. Argument dismissed. :naughty

 

[Chomsky]

Heaven forbid that many people on here step outside of their ideology for a moment and deal with the world as it is.

"Most people would rather die than think; many do." -Bertrand Russell

I'll add my variation of the old "nature" adage:

"Reality is a cruel mistress"

 

[Cigar]

Who cares what Gutiérrez has to say. He's a Pro-Open Borders moron.
The only reason he keeps getting re-elected is because his district includes Crook County.

Who is a United States Representative has Constituents ... well maybe not the type of Constituents you like.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Untrustworthy to those who came forward and submitted their identities via the paperwork.

You're attempting to place blame, whereas I'm simply stating abject fact. The Dreamers and others will no longer trust the government.

Incorrect. I am stating fact.

Fact 1. The DACA kids arrived here in violation of the law. It does not matter if you call them innocent, as they remain the responsibility of their parents now just as back then.

Fact 2. Obama made a promise he did not have the power to keep.

Fact 3. Congress makes Immigration Law, not the President.

Fact 4. It does not matter if they (or any other illegal) trusts the government. It is not about winning their trust, our trust was already broken by their families failure to follow legal methods of immigration.

Fact 5. All arguments to keep these "kids" are basest appeals to emotion. Legally, they are all illegal immigrants and must be deported.

End of argument.

 

[JANFU]

Appeals to emotion is all that such Progressive's have as arguments.

DACA was a Presidential policy established by Obama in 2012 under Executive decree, refusing to enforce existing immigration law.

Yet it is Congress that makes such laws, and the Executive branch is supposed to enforce them.

While DACA was still Executive policy, Kelly was right to say he would abide by it.

Once DACA is rescinded by the President, Kelly is right to then state he will enforce the original laws to the best of his ability.

The thing I don't understand with globalist ideology is that if "we are the world," then why is it problematic for people to be sent back the their section of origin?

Why must OUR borders be open to the BILLIONS of people in "less advanced" areas, placing a strain on what we have until we become as bad as those other areas remain?

Don't people understand that our standard of living exists because we remain exclusive?

If not, then why is it so hard for people elsewhere in the world to simply emulate our successes locally?

Now cue the "What harm can 800,000 'Kids' already here do?"

My answer? Serve as a beacon for tens of millions of others and their parents to flood the nation hoping for a similar amnesty, that's what the harm is.

Kinda like how prior amnesties created the current situation. :coffeepap:

Due to the delay in enforcing the deportations- from Bush to Obama. Now they have grown, become educated, Americanized, read 1 link that approx 30 % have post secondary degrees. They may or may not speak Spanish- personally I am conflicted on this issue.

U.S. deportations fall to lowest level since 2007 | Pew Research Center

View attachment 67222392

 

[JANFU]

Read more here: Gutiérrez Lashes Out After DACA Move: John Kelly Is ‘A Disgrace To The Uniform’ – Talking Points Memo

Look, I think ending DACA is practically unconscionable. However, what Gutierrez is saying about General Kelly is beyond the pale. In fact, it is absolutely shameful. The man has served this country and lost a son in the service of this country. Shame on Rep. Gutierrez.[/FONT][/COLOR]

His comments regarding Kelly are disgusting. The man served his country, and from what I have read was a supporter of DACA. In the end it was Trumps decision, not Kelly's.

 

[ludin]

I think a large part of the problem here, is the Dreamers had to come forward out of the shadows by filling out the federal paperwork disclosing all their personal & private info, thereby baring themselves and making themselves vulnerable.

Now the government, in part through Kelly, reneged on their promise. And that's a big deal. It makes our government appear untrustworthy.

a promise was made by someone that should have never made the promise because it was worthless.
that is the problem with ruling by EO it can be undone by the next person.

if obama was so concerned about it he should have worked with congress to pass a bill of some kind.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

:spin:

Appeals to emotion. Argument dismissed. :naughty

I did not just give an appeal to emotion. I also pointed out that net illegal immigration rates to this country have been essentially zero for years and our population growth rate is just 0.7% the lowest it has been in 80 years. So that kind of throws out the whole notion that there is some illegal immigrant crisis going on.

However, just the same, we are talking about people's lives. The fact that emotion doesn't enter into the equation when you are talking about people's lives.... I don't know what to say about that. I guess that is why you are such an ardent Trump supporter.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Due to the delay in enforcing the deportations- from Bush to Obama. Now they have grown, become educated, Americanized, read 1 link that approx 30 % have post secondary degrees. They may or may not speak Spanish- personally I am conflicted on this issue.

U.S. deportations fall to lowest level since 2007 | Pew Research Center

View attachment 67222392

I don't understand the response. What point are you making?

If these "kids" are old enough to have completed college, then how does deporting them harm them?

They will be better educated (hopefully in core trade's and science subjects rather than underwater basket-weaving courses) than their original countrymen and can have a positive influence on their countries of origin.

Moreover, I have no problem with giving them priority in the Immigration track AFTER they are deported with their illegal family members.

Why? To show others that trying this method of obtaining citizenship via by-passing the required Immigration processes will not work.