• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Guns and Crazies, What a Country [W:298]

Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

He had 4 handguns, all legally bought after BG checks from FFL dealers and properly registered with the state, and plenty of 9mm ammunition, all in modest 10-round magazines. He killed his three roommates by stabbing them, injured a few others with his car and shot others from that car, killing three of them. He finally used a gun to commit suicide when confronted with armed resistance.

Yes he was probably crazy, yet apparently able to convince a visiting police officer otherwise. Again, I ask you what gun control measure would prevent a person with no criminal record from buying a gun? Is it time to blame his roommates and/or parents just like you did for the Sandy Hook shooter?
Parents certainly are not faultless here.

Stabbed his 3 roommates: too bad it didn't end there. Guns let him kill and injure nearly a dozen more.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Parents certainly are not faultless here.

Stabbed his 3 roommates: too bad it didn't end there. Guns let him kill and injure nearly a dozen more.

Funny how you totally ignored his question. Care to answer it? Here, I'll even repost it for you so you don't miss it.

Again, I ask you what gun control measure would prevent a person with no criminal record from buying a gun?
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Funny how you totally ignored his question. Care to answer it? Here, I'll even repost it for you so you don't miss it.

A psych test, perhaps. A good one would show our boy was off his rocker. Before you buy a gun, you gotta prove you're not bonkers.

Too many guns; too many crazies. We need to put a barrier between the two.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Stabbed 3 to death, shot 3, ran over 4 with a car.

And the usual suspects blame 'guns'. Never let the opportunity to exploit victims go to waste!
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Hard to stab 12 or more people from the front seat of a moving BMW.

BYW: This punk was a son of one of the directors in Hunger Games. Irony? Probably not.

He stabbed 3 people in his residence, didn't he? We had 5 kids stabbed to death in a house party.

We have to wonder how come there's so many of them that do these kind of things. These are not your "ordinary" crimes.


It's best to find and deal with the root.
 
Last edited:
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Something is happening to our youths! That's for certain.
Outcomes don't usually happen overnight - it takes years!

I'm putting my money on PARENTING! With all capital letters!

Somewhere along the way, we're doing things terribly wrong.
What exactly are today's parents doing differently than parents of previous generations?
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

It is my honest opinion that his country has too many crazies...and too many guns.

Santa Barbara Shooting Suspect Vowed 'Retribution' in Video - ABC News

Something's gotta give.

I wonder at times if we are not trying to blame the changes in society we do not like on guns or their availability. When I grew up about the only gun control law I can remember was you couldn’t own a machine gun. No back ground checks, no limits on magazines or pretty much anything else. Yet there wasn’t any of these mass shootings. Of course this was in a time when no one locked their house when they left and even their car when they went into town. You could see gun racks in the back of pickups, with rifles and shotguns in them with the windows down and no one even thought of stealing them. It was just the way it was. Even the teachers at the school I went to had them in pickups on school ground. No one thought a thing about it.

My dad gave me a .410 for my tenth birthday and I would buy shells for it down at the local Western Auto, no questions asked. But we at that time held people accountable for their actions, they were responsible for whatever they did wrong, not their environment, their parents or pretty much everything else except the individual that does the wrong. It does seem to me that today, we keep blaming the ills of society, of people on things instead of the people who make up that society and the people responsible for the wrong doings. Of course a person’s upbringing was a lot different back in those days, schools were a lot more strict, without going into a laundry list, I would say morals as a whole were a lot higher. Kids were taught right and wrong by their parents, they for the most part were not left at home to let TV be their parent while their parents worked or left in after hour school program or something like that. Single parent were pretty much unheard of unless one’s spouse died in an accident or a war or something like that. I don’t know the reasons, but today we as a society like to blame our ills on everything except us, ourselves and those who do wrong.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Most of these issues are tied to technology and a more tolerant society. Todays youth must replace parenting with electronics since both parents are generally absent due to work. Gone are the days of Mom being there for the kids.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

He stabbed 3 people in his residence, didn't he? We had 5 kids stabbed to death in a house party.

We have to wonder how come there's so many of them that do these kind of things. These are not your "ordinary" crimes.


It's best to find and deal with the root.

I think we today raise selfish self-absorbed children. These kids never face any real hardship. After all, if something bad sneaks past the shelter of over-confidence and "the world revolves around you" mentality mommy or daddy or both erected around today's upscale kids, they will always fix it. The first taste of real adversity these kids face isn't coming until they are older and far more dangerous.

This kid was a spoiled brat. We know this as fact. At 22, he suddenly faced a few obstacles and snapped.

What's that tell ya?
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Hard to stab 12 or more people from the front seat of a moving BMW.

Pretty much impossible if you're in a staight-jacket in a padded room, which is where some of these loons belong. Instead, we're selling them guns and ammo while the cops and judges say, "They seem like nice people."
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Most of these issues are tied to technology and a more tolerant society. Todays youth must replace parenting with electronics since both parents are generally absent due to work. Gone are the days of Mom being there for the kids.
Guilt associated with non-parenting may be what lies behind the excessive spoiling.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

I think we today raise selfish self-absorbed children. These kids never face any real hardship. After all, if something bad sneaks past the shelter of over-confidence and "the world revolves around you" mentality mommy or daddy or both erected around today's upscale kids, they will always fix it. The first taste of real adversity these kids face isn't coming until they are older and far more dangerous.

This kid was a spoiled brat. We know this as fact. At 22, he suddenly faced a few obstacles and snapped.

What's that tell ya?

And most likely his parents were raised with questionable parenting, too. We learn about parenting from our own parents (how we were raised), therefore if there's no role model, it's tough. They'd be like children themselves when it comes to parenting.
I got that from a current course I'm undertaking about families in distress and their children.
It gets worse through generations, too.
 
Last edited:
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

This kid was a spoiled brat. We know this as fact. At 22, he suddenly faced a few obstacles and snapped.

What's that tell ya?

This kid did not "snap." These attacks were methodically planned over a period of time. It's pretty obvious that he was mentally disturbed, and I would think long and hard before blaming the parents for any of this. What we need in this country is a frank discussion on how we deal with these people, including public funding for mental health services and in-patient treatment facilities. It practically takes an act of God to get anyone committed these days, and even if you can there's no place to put him. So we usually leave the job to prison wardens or morticians.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

It is my honest opinion that his country has too many crazies...and too many guns.

Santa Barbara Shooting Suspect Vowed 'Retribution' in Video - ABC News

Something's gotta give.

Good job. Give him more attention. That way we can recruit more wackos!!!

Seriously. This person will have had shown a patten of insane behavior. And think the problem is the gun? He STABBED people and he HIT PEOPLE WITH HIS CAR!!!!

When will your side learn to actually target the REAL issue?!?!? Mental health is a problem in this nation? The gun control angle ain't cutting it!!
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

What exactly are today's parents doing differently than parents of previous generations?

Authoritative parenting for one - that's the usual technique from older generation.


Child development experts generally identify the authoritative parenting style as the "best" approach to parenting. Children raised by authoritative parents tend to be more capable, happy and successful.

According to Baumrind, children of authoritative parents:
•Tend to have a happier dispositions

•Have good emotional control and regulation

•Develop good social skills

•Are self-confident about their abilities to learn new skills


Understanding Why Authoritative Parenting Works

Because authoritative parents act as role models and exhibit the same behaviors they expect from their children, kids are more likely to internalize these behaviors. Consistent rules and discipline allow children to know what to expect.

Because parents exhibit good emotional understanding and control, children also learn to manage their own emotions and learn to understand others as well. Authoritative parents also allow children to act independently, which teaches kids that they are capable of accomplishing things on their own, helping to foster strong self-esteem and self-confidence.


Authoritative Parenting - What Is Authoritative Parenting


Parents today are so exhausted that they aren't consistent when it comes to discipline. It's more convenient to give in, or to bribe their children.

They tend to let media or extra-curricular activities to do the "parenting." Why is it a child these days have such a busy schedule attending one activity after another? Usually it's not for the child but for the parents.
Parents today just want to exhaust their children to "settle them down" at the end of the day.

There's hardly any QUALITY TIME with their children!

Today's parents tend to overdo the "buddy-thingy" with their children - thus it also sends a confusing signal to the child.
 
Last edited:
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

really? That is what you are going with? Wow. And this is an example of why the far extreme will never ever make sense to me.

If the police were notified and he made that threat....he at least should have been questioned. Funny if that happened and his name was Ahmed I imagine you would have wanted him in prison for terroristic threats.

There's a little thing called the 4th Amendment that protects you from search and seizure without due process. That includes detainment and arrest. The authorities cannot detain him unless they have reason to be leave he committED (past tense) a crime. They cannot presume that he will commit a crime and arrest him for it. And even if they did detain him and question him, they cannot hold him unless he confesses to committing that crime, which I doubt he would do. So really, that solution isn't even viable under the constitution.

The people to blame for this kid's behavior are (besides himself) likely his parents. I had the same troubles in high school and college with girls and popularity, but I did not go shoot up a campus in retaliation. I simply realized that when all was said and done, I would be a better person than they, and far more successful. I'm a software engineer today, and I looked on Facebook - they didn't really make much of themselves. My parents were very supportive of me along the way and most certainly had a strong influence on my beliefs and decisions. So, I think this kids parents were just the rich kind who instilled an ideology of entitlement in this kid rather than a sense of responsibility or account ability. He go so used to hearing "Yes, okay dear" that when others said "No", this stuff happened. Granted this is speculative, but not far fetched.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Pretty much impossible if you're in a staight-jacket in a padded room, which is where some of these loons belong. Instead, we're selling them guns and ammo while the cops and judges say, "They seem like nice people."

Too many crazies; too many guns. We have too few barriers between them.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Authoritative parenting for one - that's the usual technique from older generation.


Child development experts generally identify the authoritative parenting style as the "best" approach to parenting. Children raised by authoritative parents tend to be more capable, happy and successful.

According to Baumrind, children of authoritative parents:
•Tend to have a happier dispositions

•Have good emotional control and regulation

•Develop good social skills

•Are self-confident about their abilities to learn new skills


Understanding Why Authoritative Parenting Works

Because authoritative parents act as role models and exhibit the same behaviors they expect from their children, kids are more likely to internalize these behaviors. Consistent rules and discipline allow children to know what to expect.

Because parents exhibit good emotional understanding and control, children also learn to manage their own emotions and learn to understand others as well. Authoritative parents also allow children to act independently, which teaches kids that they are capable of accomplishing things on their own, helping to foster strong self-esteem and self-confidence.


Authoritative Parenting - What Is Authoritative Parenting


Parents today are so exhausted that they aren't consistent when it comes to discipline. It's more convenient to give in, or to bribe their children.

They tend to let media or extra-curricular activities to do the "parenting." Why is it a child these days have such a busy schedule attending one activity after another? Usually it's not for the child but for the parents.
Parents today just want to exhaust their children to "settle them down" at the end of the day.

There's hardly any QUALITY TIME with their children!

Today's parents tend to overdo the "buddy-thingy" with their children - thus it also sends a confusing signal to the child.

Parenting is not a democracy. It's a top-down system where the subjects should never really question parental authority before the age of about 13.

Parenting, especially encouraging discipline, is one area where I completely disagree with the liberals. The Right's, "Spare the rod spoil the child" may be a bit extreme, but "no means no" certainly is not. This current trend I see where a parent ends up negotiating with a 3-year old is crazy.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Good job. Give him more attention. That way we can recruit more wackos!!!

Seriously. This person will have had shown a patten of insane behavior. And think the problem is the gun? He STABBED people and he HIT PEOPLE WITH HIS CAR!!!!

When will your side learn to actually target the REAL issue?!?!? Mental health is a problem in this nation? The gun control angle ain't cutting it!!

Too many crazies; too many guns, not enough barriers between them.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Parents certainly are not faultless here.

Stabbed his 3 roommates: too bad it didn't end there. Guns let him kill and injure nearly a dozen more.

A single gun in the hands of a trained individual at the place of shooting could have stopped it there. He could have easily killed more with a knife since it is a silent weapon and easier to conceal and requires no ammunition. It merely has less range capability.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

There's a little thing called the 4th Amendment that protects you from search and seizure without due process. That includes detainment and arrest. The authorities cannot detain him unless they have reason to be leave he committED (past tense) a crime.

Terroristic threats are a crime. Or did you forget there are men in prison for simply inquiring to get materials to build bombs.



They cannot presume that he will commit a crime and arrest him for it. And even if they did detain him and question him, they cannot hold him unless he confesses to committing that crime, which I doubt he would do. So really, that solution isn't even viable under the constitution.

He can be interviewed and watched.

The people to blame for this kid's behavior are (besides himself) likely his parents. I had the same troubles in high school and college with girls and popularity, but I did not go shoot up a campus in retaliation.

I am proud of you.

I simply realized that when all was said and done, I would be a better person than they, and far more successful. I'm a software engineer today, and I looked on Facebook - they didn't really make much of themselves.

that makes you feel good?

My parents were very supportive of me along the way and most certainly had a strong influence on my beliefs and decisions. So, I think this kids parents were just the rich kind who instilled an ideology of entitlement in this kid rather than a sense of responsibility or account ability.


Are you a mystic?

He go so used to hearing "Yes, okay dear" that when others said "No", this stuff happened. Granted this is speculative, but not far fetched.

Yes speculation.....I know it makes you feel better but the bottom line is that if authorities would have investigated this man when he clearly issued a threat I think we wouldn't be talking about this.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

A psych test, perhaps. A good one would show our boy was off his rocker. Before you buy a gun, you gotta prove you're not bonkers.

Too many guns; too many crazies. We need to put a barrier between the two.

How do you propose to do that? A scantron? It's easy to see what answers people want to get in that situation. A doctor doing a mental exam? That would be FAR to expensive to enlist under taxes.
 
Re: Guns and Crazies, What a Country

Personally, I've encountered a lot more crazies on web sites like this one, than I have in any mental institution out there - just saying.
 
Back
Top Bottom