Greenland is losing ice faster than expected

[longview]

I was trying to do some abstract math with the basics of the graph in the other thread. It's too complex for that simple approach though, and my 40 dB figure is probably high. It's probably between 20 dB to 30 dB, the more I look at the graph. I would have to get the line by line data and put it in a spreadsheet, to have any reasonable claim.

One of those several papers simply concluded that there was not enough signal left above 14 um to be measured.

 

[Visbek]

no no I can't, and neither can you. I do not possess the ability to control the minds of 7 billion people.

Then why are you here?

Number one I don't think they do any good, number two I don't really want to deal with it.

Then why are you here?

Number three I think "green policies" should not only be discouraged but should be outlawed in some cases.

So no one can do anything about the climate, but "green policies" should be outlawed? How does that work, exactly?

If you want to do those things I'm not going to stand in your way....

But you're still going to tell people they can't do anything. Hmmmm.

I'm not concerned about glaciers melting they've been melting for 20000 years.

And again, you fail (or refuse) to understand the situation. While glaciers have grown and shrunk over time, they are now shrinking specifically because of human activity.

who said I didn't care about these issues I care very much about stopping the ignorance in hysteria you are spreading.

1) YOU said you didn't care. Are you not reading your own posts?

2)Relaying the results of actual scientific studies is not "spreading hysteria."

you can think about it anyway you want, but it absolutely is a fluctuation. over history there has been times when there was less ice on the planet than there is now that means it's a fluctuation.

Good grief. The fact that natural events were the primary drivers of climate change in the past does not change the scientifically established fact that climate change in the Industrial Era is almost all caused by human activities.

To put it another way: The existence of natural causes of lung cancer does not change the fact that cigarettes are a carcinogen, and cause roughly 90% of lung cancers today.

to believe something that's absurd is this you must reject all of science. The sea levels have been rising for 20,000 years that's before 1900. they've been racing since the planet has been coming out of an ice age.

To believe something that absurd, you must be rejecting the science.

The planet did warm -- from roughly 18,000 years ago to 10,000 years ago. Sea levels rose until around 7000 years ago, and were basically flat until 1900. Since then, sea level rise has started to accelerate, and is likely to rise even faster.

Again, it's not that "sea levels never ever rose in the past." It's that sea levels in recent times were flat, until humans started impacting the environment. Your claim that "oh it's all natural" is unscientific bull****.

You and all the other watermelons have done an absolute dismal job of convincing people.

("Watermelon?" WTF is that supposed to mean? Anyway...)

Most of the planet by now realizes that climate change is real, and is caused by humans. Some people are actually doing something about it, too. Maybe you should get out of your echo chamber.

 

[CLAX1911]

Then why are you here?



Then why are you here?

To counter your Hysteria.

So no one can do anything about the climate, but "green policies" should be outlawed? How does that work, exactly?

Green policies are not about climate change. They are about socialism under the guise of good for the planet.

But you're still going to tell people they can't do anything. Hmmmm.

about climate change yes. Because you can't.

And again, you fail (or refuse) to understand the situation. While glaciers have grown and shrunk over time, they are now shrinking specifically because of human activity.

they have been melting for 20,000 years. they were melting long before human activity had anything to do with it.

I'm not refusing to understand your hysteria I'm refusing to become hysterical because there's nothing you can do to make that ice not melt it will eventually.

1) YOU said you didn't care. Are you not reading your own posts?

2)Relaying the results of actual scientific studies is not "spreading hysteria."

okay I will make this clear.
I care about undermining you. I care about talking to people with the ability to think.

I don't care how many people in laptops agree with your Hysteria.

You aren't relaying results you are spreading Hysteria.

Good grief. The fact that natural events were the primary drivers of climate change in the past does not change the scientifically established fact that climate change in the Industrial Era is almost all caused by human activities.

so if it weren't for the industrial revolution all claimed it changed it had been naturally occurring would have halted all the sudden?

I'm sorry but that sounds far-fetched.

To put it another way: The existence of natural causes of lung cancer does not change the fact that cigarettes are a carcinogen, and cause roughly 90% of lung cancers today.

however if we saw no increase in cancer among smokers then it wouldn't be a logical conclusion to say that cigarettes are a carcinogen. And that's what you're doing.

To believe something that absurd, you must be rejecting the science.

The planet did warm -- from roughly 18,000 years ago to 10,000 years ago. Sea levels rose until around 7000 years ago, and were basically flat until 1900. Since then, sea level rise has started to accelerate, and is likely to rise even faster.

that's incorrect the temperature has been steadily warming for 25 thousand years. 25000 years ago was the peak of the ice age we Didn't start going back to another ice age 7000 years ago.

Again, it's not that "sea levels never ever rose in the past." It's that sea levels in recent times were flat, until humans started impacting the environment.

that's just flat-out wrong. over the past twenty thousand years the sea levels have Rose 400 feet.

Your claim that "oh it's all natural" is unscientific bull****.

I never made the claim that it's all natural, so please don't make straw man fallacies it makes you seem dishonest.

("Watermelon?" WTF is that supposed to mean? Anyway...)

green on the outside but red on the inside. meaning you are cloaking your socialist viewpoints behind helping the planet. It's a form of mockery.

Most of the planet by now realizes that climate change is real,

well no **** Sherlock. the climate has been changing probably for hundreds of thousands of years.

and is caused by humans.

to all the people who buy this crap Hook line & sinker I ask, " the climate has been changing for hundreds of thousands of years before humans were here. So what is it caused by dinosaurs at one time were they driving around SUVs or something?

Some people are actually doing something about it, too. Maybe you should get out of your echo chamber.

No you are not. You can't. You are part of this global warming cult so telling people that are not in it that they're in the echo chamber is rather absurd.

 

[trouble13]

Greenland is losing ice seven times faster than in the 1990s and is tracking the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's high-end climate warming scenario, which would see 40 million more people exposed to coastal flooding by 2100.

A team of 96 polar scientists from 50 international organisations have produced the most complete picture of Greenland ice loss to date. The Ice Sheet Mass Balance Inter-comparison Exercise (IMBIE) Team combined 26 separate surveys to compute changes in the mass of Greenland's ice sheet between 1992 and 2018. Altogether, data from 11 different satellite missions were used, including measurements of the ice sheet's changing volume, flow and gravity.
Greenland ice losses rising faster than expected

Direct link to the article:
Mass balance of the Greenland Ice Sheet from 1992 to 2018 | Nature

Who cares about the year 2100 when the earth is going to be inhabital in 10 years.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Visbek]

To counter your Hysteria.

If nothing can be done, then why bother?

Green policies are not about climate change. They are about socialism under the guise of good for the planet.

Yes, because making LED bulbs cheaper, and putting solar panels on roofs, and reducing dependence on fossil fuels, is EXACTLY the same thing as nationalizing corporations, setting up a command economy, and ensuring that control of the means of production is in the hands of the proletariat. :lamo

about climate change yes. Because you can't.

Unless I can, by (for example) discussing the actual scientific facts about climate change.

they have been melting for 20,000 years...

Repetition is not an argument.

I care about undermining you. I care about talking to people with the ability to think.

So, you're trolling me? How nice of you. Of course, if you genuinely believed that Nothing Can Be Done, then you shouldn't bother.

so if it weren't for the industrial revolution all claimed it changed it had been naturally occurring would have halted all the sudden?

:roll:

1) No one has said that "natural climate change has stopped." What has happened is that humans are having such a substantial effect on climate that it is vastly outweighing natural processes. E.g. anthropogenic warming is happening 10 times faster than the natural warming at the end of the last Ice Age. Very much like lung cancer -- the natural causes have not disappeared, but the anthropogenic ones are causing almost all of the cases.

2) For 5000 years before the Industrial Age, global temperatures were very gradually declining. Then, because of human activity, temperatures started to rapidly rise.

however if we saw no increase in cancer among smokers then it wouldn't be a logical conclusion to say that cigarettes are a carcinogen. And that's what you're doing.

Hello? McFly? We have tons of evidence that global temperatures are rising rapidly. Greenland's rapid ice loss is just one of many such indicators.

that's incorrect the temperature has been steadily warming for 25 thousand years. 25000 years ago was the peak of the ice age we Didn't start going back to another ice age 7000 years ago.

lol

No, it hasn't been "steadily warming for 25k years." It was stable for several millennia, then warmed for thousands of years, then was stable for thousands of years, then very gradually started to cool for ~7000 years. At the previous rate of cooling it would have taken 15,000 to be a "shallow" Ice Age, and 25,000 or more to hit the same temperatures as the previous ice age. If humans hadn't interfered in the atmosphere, other natural events might have accelerated or decelerated or reversed those possible trends.

I never made the claim that it's all natural, so please don't make straw man fallacies it makes you seem dishonest.

Yes, because it's not like you are denying the impact of human warming by saying "it's all fluctuations this has happened for 20k years" :roll:

green on the outside but red on the inside. meaning you are cloaking your socialist viewpoints behind helping the planet.

LOL

You obviously have no idea of my political and economic views. That's understandable (it's not your job to track every post I've written). However, I have no hidden agendas.

That said, it sounds like you are the type of person who has no idea what "socialism" actually is, and you try to tack that label on anyone who is politically to the left of Michelle Malkin. Just a guess.

 

[Visbek]

Who cares about the year 2100 when the earth is going to be inhabital in 10 years.

Who cares about facts when you can just attack straw men?

 

[CLAX1911]

If nothing can be done, then why bother?



Yes, because making LED bulbs cheaper, and putting solar panels on roofs, and reducing dependence on fossil fuels, is EXACTLY the same thing as nationalizing corporations, setting up a command economy, and ensuring that control of the means of production is in the hands of the proletariat. :lamo



Unless I can, by (for example) discussing the actual scientific facts about climate change.



Repetition is not an argument.



So, you're trolling me? How nice of you. Of course, if you genuinely believed that Nothing Can Be Done, then you shouldn't bother.



:roll:

1) No one has said that "natural climate change has stopped." What has happened is that humans are having such a substantial effect on climate that it is vastly outweighing natural processes. E.g. anthropogenic warming is happening 10 times faster than the natural warming at the end of the last Ice Age. Very much like lung cancer -- the natural causes have not disappeared, but the anthropogenic ones are causing almost all of the cases.

2) For 5000 years before the Industrial Age, global temperatures were very gradually declining. Then, because of human activity, temperatures started to rapidly rise.



Hello? McFly? We have tons of evidence that global temperatures are rising rapidly. Greenland's rapid ice loss is just one of many such indicators.



lol

No, it hasn't been "steadily warming for 25k years." It was stable for several millennia, then warmed for thousands of years, then was stable for thousands of years, then very gradually started to cool for ~7000 years. At the previous rate of cooling it would have taken 15,000 to be a "shallow" Ice Age, and 25,000 or more to hit the same temperatures as the previous ice age. If humans hadn't interfered in the atmosphere, other natural events might have accelerated or decelerated or reversed those possible trends.

Yes, because it's not like you are denying the impact of human warming by saying "it's all fluctuations this has happened for 20k years" :roll:



LOL

You obviously have no idea of my political and economic views. That's understandable (it's not your job to track every post I've written). However, I have no hidden agendas.

That said, it sounds like you are the type of person who has no idea what "socialism" actually is, and you try to tack that label on anyone who is politically to the left of Michelle Malkin. Just a guess.

Lol, LED bulbs and solar panels aren't government policies. Nice try though.

It seems to escape you that my doubt in your religion doesn't mean I don't care about it being pushed.

Undermining brainwashing isn't trolling.

Your nonsense is what you have been programmed to say. I've read all of your hysteria before. You retyping it is pointless.

Duh, never argued the temperature wasn't going up.

So what if it isn't steady?

Never denied any impact man has on it.

If you bought into this envionazi horse **** I'm pretty sure you don't hold sound political positions.

 

[CLAX1911]

Who cares about the year 2100 when the earth is going to be inhabital in 10 years.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Most likely it will still be inhabitable long after your grand children are gone.

The end is near us something every generation says and they are always wrong.

 

[CLAX1911]

Who cares about facts when you can just attack straw men?

You clearly don't care about facts. You disregard then for conflicting with your religious beliefs.

 

[Jack Hays]

Mass balance of the Greenland ice sheet [link] We have seen an acceleration from ~2004-2012 and a deceleration from ~2013-17, attributed to atmospheric circulation & local ocean temp.