Grade school education

[Josie]

Which I've thought doing. Which will make my daughter hate me even more than when I put here in time out, lol. But, do I give her the math problems to be solved my way, or the way her teacher is doing that...frankly, I'm struggling to understand?

I would suggest you set up a meeting with her teacher so she can explain to you how to do the problems. She's going to have to know how to do them that way, so you might as well do anything you can to help her.

 

[Josie]

Either way I doubt it's complicated enough to warrant a post like this. In the day of the internet he could have figured this out in less time than it takes to write a grumpy forum post.

I'm going to guess it probably did warrant this thread. I have teacher friends that have to teach new math and they're confused too.

 

[americanwoman]

Which I've thought doing. Which will make my daughter hate me even more than when I put here in time out, lol. But, do I give her the math problems to be solved my way, or the way her teacher is doing that...frankly, I'm struggling to understand?

I know it's hard because if she doesn't understand her teachers way but can do it great another way, will her teacher be accepting and understand or then turn around and give her bad grades since she didn't do it the school way. Tough spot to be in, for sure.

 

[Slyfox696]

Yep -- we're all Common Core. Just haven't quite made the switch to new math.

:lol:

Let me see if I can accurately sum up Missouri. Missouri adopted Common Core years back, in order to get out of the ridiculous NCLB legislation which basically ensured all schools would be a failure by 2014. Common Core, of course, became a political issue and became tied to Obama, so Missouri, being an increasingly red state, decided we couldn't be Common Core because...Obama, I guess. So then Common Core standards became "Missouri Learning Standards"...but they were the exact same standards. So, apparently, that wasn't good enough and Missouri scrapped those standards and wrote new ones, after we spent years aligning curriculum to the Common Core/Missouri Learning Standards. And, of course, when you change standards you have to change standardized testing, so here's where we are today:

Last year was the first year of our new standardized test. Since it was the first year, we have nothing to compare those scores to. Last year's test tested the old standards. This year, our teacher are supposed to be teaching to the new standards, but the test this year will test over last year's standards. Next year's test will test over the new standards, but will be a new test, so we can't compare scores again.

Basically, because of political childishness, Missouri has rendered the state tests of 14-15, 15-16, 16-17 and 17-18, an entire high school career, all irrelevant. Great job Missouri.

 

[MaggieD]

There are Common Core writing standards for every grade level, Maggie.

Tom's daughter and son are 30-ish. They don't write. Young kids in Illinois are not taught to write. They print. All through school.

 

[KevinKohler]

Either way I doubt it's complicated enough to warrant a post like this. In the day of the internet he could have figured this out in less time than it takes to write a grumpy forum post.

Thing is, that's not the case. I'm even now trying to google examples of her work sheets in order to post the here for Josie and sly, but with no luck. I'm going to end up having to take a photo, if she comes home with more math tonight, and posting that.

Further, if it (obviously has) fallen to me to teach my daughter this system, does it not behoove the teacher to at least send me an explanation, beyond what's on the work sheet, which amounts to, "Solve the below problems, using the picture boxes to show your work."

 

[KevinKohler]

Tom's daughter and son are 30-ish. They don't write. Young kids in Illinois are not taught to write. They print. All through school.

They're not taught cursive, you mean...

 

[KevinKohler]

:lol:

Let me see if I can accurately sum up Missouri. Missouri adopted Common Core years back, in order to get out of the ridiculous NCLB legislation which basically ensured all schools would be a failure by 2014. Common Core, of course, became a political issue and became tied to Obama, so Missouri, being an increasingly red state, decided we couldn't be Common Core because...Obama, I guess. So then Common Core standards became "Missouri Learning Standards"...but they were the exact same standards. So, apparently, that wasn't good enough and Missouri scrapped those standards and wrote new ones, after we spent years aligning curriculum to the Common Core/Missouri Learning Standards. And, of course, when you change standards you have to change standardized testing, so here's where we are today:

Last year was the first year of our new standardized test. Since it was the first year, we have nothing to compare those scores to. Last year's test tested the old standards. This year, our teacher are supposed to be teaching to the new standards, but the test this year will test over last year's standards. Next year's test will test over the new standards, but will be a new test, so we can't compare scores again.

Basically, because of political childishness, Missouri has rendered the state tests of 14-15, 15-16, 16-17 and 17-18, an entire high school career, all irrelevant. Great job Missouri.

I believe the term you're searching for is cluster ****.

 

[Josie]

Tom's daughter and son are 30-ish. They don't write. Young kids in Illinois are not taught to write. They print. All through school.

You're talking about handwriting. I'm talking about writing. There are Common Core standards for every grade level from kindergarten (writing a complete sentence with a capital letter and period at the end) to high school (writing multi-page essays with proper grammar, voice, organization, cohesion, etc.)

Cursive handwriting is becoming obsolete because almost everything we write and read is typed. I don't know why older people throw such a freakin' hissy fit about cursive handwriting. Not necessarily talking about you - just people I've talked to before, in general. It's like they think children are now total idiots because they weren't taught how to form a beautiful loop on the letter "L". Dumb. But - for the record - I have my kids practice cursive handwriting on their own during independent centers. It's just not something that I feel deserves a 20-min a day lesson.

 

[Slyfox696]

Tom's daughter and son are 30-ish. They don't write. Young kids in Illinois are not taught to write. They print. All through school.

You mean cursive?

I've never been a fan of that really. Never saw the point.

I believe the term you're searching for is cluster ****.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I assure you, the word those four stars are concealing has been used many times, in many ways, to describe the situation.


EDIT: Also, I just re-read the last post I directed to you and holy crap, I left out a lot of words. Sorry about that if it caused confusion. Definitely not my best effort.

You're talking about handwriting. I'm talking about writing. There are Common Core standards for every grade level from kindergarten (writing a complete sentence with a capital letter and period at the end) to high school (writing multi-page essays with proper grammar, voice, organization, cohesion, etc.)

Cursive handwriting is becoming obsolete because almost everything we write and read is typed. I don't know why older people throw such a freakin' hissy fit about cursive handwriting. Not necessarily talking about you - just people I've talked to before, in general. It's like they think children are now total idiots because they weren't taught how to form a beautiful loop on the letter "L". Dumb. But - for the record - I have my kids practice cursive handwriting on their own during independent centers. It's just not something that I feel deserves a 20-min a day lesson.

I agree, I think cursive doesn't hold much practical use, especially in the increasingly digital world in which we live.

Honestly, I've never understood the point...just seemed like a waste of time to me. Then again, I've always had terrible handwriting, so printing was about the only way a teacher could read my writing.

 

[Josie]

Honestly, I've never understood the point...just seemed like a waste of time to me. Then again, I've always had terrible handwriting, so printing was about the only way a teacher could read my writing.

And I've had this conversation so many times that I can predict what will come next....

But how will they read the Constitution????? Um, do YOU read the Constitution as it was written? Do you realize how hard it is for someone who does know cursive to read it like that? We all read it online where the words are in type-form, not cursive.

How will they sign their name to important documents??? I'm flabbergasted that so many people actually believe that your signature MUST be in cursive handwriting. It's just not true. Your signature is simply how you normally sign your name. It can be printed, scribbled or written in beautiful, precise cursive letters.

 

[Slyfox696]

And I've had this conversation so many times that I can predict what will come next....

But how will they read the Constitution????? Um, do YOU read the Constitution as it was written? Do you realize how hard it is for someone who does know cursive to read it like that? We all read it online where the words are in type-form, not cursive.

How will they sign their name to important documents??? I'm flabbergasted that so many people actually believe that your signature MUST be in cursive handwriting. It's just not true. Your signature is simply how you normally sign your name. It can be printed, scribbled or written in beautiful, precise cursive letters.

This last one is what especially gets me. Many times in the older days, people merely put an "X" next to their name and it would be accepted. The idea we HAVE to sign in cursive just doesn't make sense when you think about it.

I know how to write cursive, but I use it so rarely that when it is not my name I sometimes have to stop and think about it.

 

[Josie]

This last one is what especially gets me. Many times in the older days, people merely put an "X" next to their name and it would be accepted. The idea we HAVE to sign in cursive just doesn't make sense when you think about it.

I know how to write cursive, but I use it so rarely that when it is not my name I sometimes have to stop and think about it.

I don't write in cursive unless I'm signing my name even though I learned cursive and was very good at it. I print everything now probably because I'm used to printing with my students. But, really, most everything I write is typed.

 

[Master PO]

This last one is what especially gets me. Many times in the older days, people merely put an "X" next to their name and it would be accepted. The idea we HAVE to sign in cursive just doesn't make sense when you think about it.

I know how to write cursive, but I use it so rarely that when it is not my name I sometimes have to stop and think about it.

wow... i use it everyday at work and home.

 

[KevinKohler]

You're talking about handwriting. I'm talking about writing. There are Common Core standards for every grade level from kindergarten (writing a complete sentence with a capital letter and period at the end) to high school (writing multi-page essays with proper grammar, voice, organization, cohesion, etc.)

Cursive handwriting is becoming obsolete because almost everything we write and read is typed. I don't know why older people throw such a freakin' hissy fit about cursive handwriting. Not necessarily talking about you - just people I've talked to before, in general. It's like they think children are now total idiots because they weren't taught how to form a beautiful loop on the letter "L". Dumb. But - for the record - I have my kids practice cursive handwriting on their own during independent centers. It's just not something that I feel deserves a 20-min a day lesson.

I get that. But how will we function as a society when a doctors handwriting is legible?

 

[TheGoverness]

Tom's daughter and son are 30-ish. They don't write. Young kids in Illinois are not taught to write. They print. All through school.

Well that's because writing in cursive is just so unessecary.

The only time I ever write in cursive is when I need to sign my own name on some form.

 

[americanwoman]

I agree, I think cursive doesn't hold much practical use, especially in the increasingly digital world in which we live.

I couldn't agree more. It's so hard to read, I groan whenever we get correspondence at work from an elderly person because it's more often than not 5 pages of cursive writing that is a pain in the butt to decipher.

 

[AlbqOwl]

I couldn't agree more. It's so hard to read, I groan whenever we get correspondence at work from an elderly person because it's more often than not 5 pages of cursive writing that is a pain in the butt to decipher.

A difference in generations. Those of us who got our education before the age of computers, Ipads, smart phones, etc., had to use cursive. And for those properly taught to write cursive, it is far faster and more efficient than printing when one must use handwriting.

But these days when handwritten homework, themes, etc. are almost always done via computer or similar device, handwriting is fast becoming obsolete. I do so much key boarding myself, because now handwriting is frustratingly slow to me, my handwriting has definitely deteriorated--I once did beautiful cursive. Do I understand math in the same way the new math students do? I don't know. When it comes to simple addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, percentages, ratios, etc., I believe I do. And that's all I have ever needed to know.

But never fear. We of the older generation will eventually die out and it will be a whole different world for you young-uns. Until then, I will no doubt use cursive from time to time and will continue to do math the old way which is far faster and more efficient than the new math. And I will continue to hate the way a new math problem solution looks, will mourn the lack of beautiful cursive writing, be frustrated with young people who cannot tell time by an analog clock, or who can't make change without the computer on the cash register, etc. And I will admire kids who can negotiate a smart phone with amazing proficiency and know how to fix whatever I've screwed up on my computer, know how to program the smart TV, etc.

It is a different world now.

 

[americanwoman]

A difference in generations. Those of us who got our education before the age of computers, Ipads, smart phones, etc., had to use cursive. And for those properly taught to write cursive, it is far faster and more efficient than printing when one must use handwriting.

But these days when handwritten homework, themes, etc. are almost always done via computer or similar device, handwriting is fast becoming obsolete. I do so much key boarding myself, because now handwriting is frustratingly slow to me, my handwriting has definitely deteriorated--I once did beautiful cursive. Do I understand math in the same way the new math students do? I don't know. When it comes to simple addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, percentages, ratios, etc., I believe I do. And that's all I have ever needed to know.

But never fear. We of the older generation will eventually die out and it will be a whole different world for you young-uns. Until then, I will no doubt use cursive from time to time and will continue to do math the old way which is far faster and more efficient than the new math. And I will continue to hate the way a new math problem solution looks, will mourn the lack of beautiful cursive writing, be frustrated with young people who cannot tell time by an analog clock, or who can't make change without the computer on the cash register, etc. And I will admire kids who can negotiate a smart phone with amazing proficiency and know how to fix whatever I've screwed up on my computer, know how to program the smart TV, etc.

It is a different world now.

Yes, it is a different world. My daughter is being taught cursive and I am happy she is just to have that knowledge, even though she probably won't use it much. It's funny because her name starts with a "Z" and when she first started, everyone was having problems writing an upper case Z and it started a big debate on how it should be written.

OR

I always did the first one.

 

[Josie]

Yes, it is a different world. My daughter is being taught cursive and I am happy she is just to have that knowledge, even though she probably won't use it much. It's funny because her name starts with a "Z" and when she first started, everyone was having problems writing an upper case Z and it started a big debate on how it should be written.

View attachment 67213058 OR View attachment 67213059

I always did the first one.

First one for me too. The "proper" capital Z and Q are just weird-looking.

 

[roughdraft274]

Thing is, that's not the case. I'm even now trying to google examples of her work sheets in order to post the here for Josie and sly, but with no luck. I'm going to end up having to take a photo, if she comes home with more math tonight, and posting that.

Further, if it (obviously has) fallen to me to teach my daughter this system, does it not behoove the teacher to at least send me an explanation, beyond what's on the work sheet, which amounts to, "Solve the below problems, using the picture boxes to show your work."

Have you tried contacting the teacher for a quick phone call? Or an email where you ask her to send an example of one of the worked out problems so you can see how it's done? If the teacher refuses to help you it would be the first time I've ever heard of it and you can report it to the school. But I bet a quick phone call or email could clear it up.

 

[roughdraft274]

I'm going to guess it probably did warrant this thread. I have teacher friends that have to teach new math and they're confused too.

Confused as in exactly how to teach it or confused as in how the methods work. Because if they are confused on how the methods work they shouldn't be teaching.

 

[justabubba]

Tom's daughter and son are 30-ish. They don't write. Young kids in Illinois are not taught to write. They print. All through school.

i see this concern - usually from my older generation
but is no longer teaching cursive writing really an issue
we want our kids to be able to communicate
if that can be accomplished by printing, then cursive is no longer essential

instead, spend that time learning something useful, like programming

 

[Fiddytree]

May I contribute that modern English cursive writing will go through the same evolution in use as many previous writing standards?

Currently history students can take seminars on reading old English or older hand written texts. This is because the writing style and language is significantly outdated, but scholars will need to be able to read such documents in order to do their research. Most Americans couldnt care less if they can read a scribe's writing from the middle ages. Such is life.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

 

[imagep]

I feel your pain. Is it common core that's responsible for schools no longer teaching children to write?

No.

Common core doesn't prevent any school or teacher from teaching whatever they think needs to be taught. It just sets a standard minimum curriculum so that third graders in every common core school have the same minimum curriculum. the way it was before common core, when students transfered between schools, it was highly likely that the schools weren't teaching the same subjects/curriculum at the same grade levels, so students would be way behind in some subjects and way ahead in others.

I attended five different schools by fifth grade