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Gorsuch sides with liberals to tip decision to immigrant in Supreme Court deportation case

No, it didn't. That was the ruling regarding the exchanges and subsidies, not about the individual mandate. That was in 2012. When you're desperately attempting to indicate that others are hypocrites, hacks, and other such things and acting as if you have the ability to see into alternate realities and determine how people would act in any given scenario, it would help if before all of that you at least had a basic understanding of the things you keep acting like you're so informed about.

Which pretty much solidified Obamacare as law of the land. Besides it didn't matter if I wasn't here in 2012. I was still glued into politics even more conservative than I am these days, but none of the outrage on those rulings made any sense to me, and the reason reason why I can think of that Cons aren't outraged about this ruling is that it's Trump's guy and not a Dem that did it. You can write paragraph after paragraph about the decision process Gorsuch likely had, and while that's interesting I saw no one defending Roberts in my party except for Mitt Romney.
 
Can you show me the link that proves the above.
No where did I read that the SC said they want the law to be made more lenient. They want the law to be made clearer though...And that does not favor liberals. It favors due process for illegal aliens.

Why wouldn't it? It can do two things at once.
 
Really? Are you actually saying this with a straight face. The court wants the law to be rewritten completely. That likely means non-violent offenders like drug users are not going to be subject to deportation after the re-write. It's entirely in-line with Liberal views.

Again, you are ignorantly mistaking political and judicial ideology; you are conflating political results with jurisprudence. This is illustrated wonderfully by Antonin Scalia, a man often depicted as a conservative zealot upon the court, when indicating that, as King, he'd ban the burning of flags but as a SCOTUS judge bound by the constitution he could not rule anything other than it being protected speech. Justices are not meant to make their judgements based on what OUTCOME they want but rather based on what the law says. This is especially true of conservative judicial ideology, which eschews greatly the idea of upholding or changing a law due to the "good" that it would potentially cause.

In Gorsuch's estimation, the law was far to vague and provided far too much power to the government while being too unclear to allow someone to reasonably understand how their actions may react with the law. Gorsuch's opinion gives zero indication as to what or how he'd prefer the law ultimately to be written as it relates to what type of violations would lead to deportation; he simply wishes for it to be made more clear. It is an opinion that is agnostic to the notion of what will cause a deportation, focusing instead on simply desiring those things to be clearly defined.

Nothing about that is inherently liberal, especially from a judicial stand point. What the legislature does in rewriting the law is irrelevant to the judicial opinion on the matter. What it "likely means" is irrelevant, and should be irrelevant, as it relates to the actual case law.

What is even more hilarious about this, as you sit here agape at the idea that someone with a far better grasp on this than you could dare have a straight face, is you're attempting to take an instance where Gorsuch is following textual jurisprudence over legislative intent in order to declare something unconstitutional and are desperately attempting to compare that as an direct analog to an instance where a justice utilized legislative intent over textualism in an attempt to laughably declare people hypocritical.

I understand that greater understanding, more in depth knowledge, and actual nuance are not things that hacks tend to enjoy utilizing as it makes their propagandizing and pandering points far more difficult to be successful, but forgive me if I'm not going to ignore the realities of judicial case law and theory in order to drop myself to the same base elementary level that you seem to wish to wallow in on this matter.
 
You don't understand because you don't know anything about either case, and you approach everything as a reactionary, expecting that that everyone else does the same, entirely unable to fathom anything else.

You don't even care about the merits of either case, or the reasoning behind them. To you, it's all tribal, and you cannot think beyond that. You've demonstrated that over and over in this thread (and elsewhere), and you do so again in THIS post.

And yes, my understanding of the Constitution, constitutional issues, the law, the reasoning behind these cases (indeed, what actually happened in them), and the reactions to them, are leaps and bounds above yours.

Yet you don't think it's possible that my scenario could be possible. Weird. Something tells me that this is not going to end well for conservatives and you are all defending it. :lamo
 
No, it didn't. That was the ruling regarding the exchanges and subsidies, not about the individual mandate. That was in 2012. When you're desperately attempting to indicate that others are hypocrites, hacks, and other such things and acting as if you have the ability to see into alternate realities and determine how people would act in any given scenario, it would help if before all of that you at least had a basic understanding of the things you keep acting like you're so informed about.

The 2015 case about exchanges and subsidies was also not a Constitutional issue; it was purely statutory interpretation.
 
Why wouldn't it? It can do two things at once.

Again, where did you get the idea that the justices want deportation laws to be made more lenient? Can you admit that this is your opinion? Because it sure is not factual.
 
Again, you are ignorantly mistaking political and judicial ideology; you are conflating political results with jurisprudence. This is illustrated wonderfully by Antonin Scalia, a man often depicted as a conservative zealot upon the court, when indicating that, as King, he'd ban the burning of flags but as a SCOTUS judge bound by the constitution he could not rule anything other than it being protected speech. Justices are not meant to make their judgements based on what OUTCOME they want but rather based on what the law says. This is especially true of conservative judicial ideology, which eschews greatly the idea of upholding or changing a law due to the "good" that it would potentially cause.

In Gorsuch's estimation, the law was far to vague and provided far too much power to the government while being too unclear to allow someone to reasonably understand how their actions may react with the law. Gorsuch's opinion gives zero indication as to what or how he'd prefer the law ultimately to be written as it relates to what type of violations would lead to deportation; he simply wishes for it to be made more clear. It is an opinion that is agnostic to the notion of what will cause a deportation, focusing instead on simply desiring those things to be clearly defined.

Nothing about that is inherently liberal, especially from a judicial stand point. What the legislature does in rewriting the law is irrelevant to the judicial opinion on the matter. What it "likely means" is irrelevant, and should be irrelevant, as it relates to the actual case law.

What is even more hilarious about this, as you sit here agape at the idea that someone with a far better grasp on this than you could dare have a straight face, is you're attempting to take an instance where Gorsuch is following textual jurisprudence over legislative intent in order to declare something unconstitutional and are desperately attempting to compare that as an direct analog to an instance where a justice utilized legislative intent over textualism in an attempt to laughably declare people hypocritical.

I understand that greater understanding, more in depth knowledge, and actual nuance are not things that hacks tend to enjoy utilizing as it makes their propagandizing and pandering points far more difficult to be successful, but forgive me if I'm not going to ignore the realities of judicial case law and theory in order to drop myself to the same base elementary level that you seem to wish to wallow in on this matter.

So you admit that the ruling could favor liberals. Finally. What it boils down to is that conservative are defending it because they like Gorsuch because Trump likes him. That's the way I see it. I guarantee that if Elizabeth Warren or someone Clinton picked was on the SCOTUS cons would NOT be acting in the same manner.
 
Yet you don't think it's possible that my scenario could be possible.

I didn't say anything about "possible." I said your assumptions are faulty and you don't know enough about any of it to make an actual argument.

I asked you repeatedly to make a case, but all you can come up with is who was President at the time of the ruling. Which is nothing but your own inability to rise above tribalism.

As further demonstrated here:

Weird. Something tells me that this is not going to end well for conservatives and you are all defending it. :lamo
 
So you admit that the ruling could favor liberals. Finally. What it boils down to is that conservative are defending it because they like Gorsuch because Trump likes him. That's the way I see it.

Yes. You cannot rise above tribalism. How many times are you planning on confirming that by your own testimony?
 
Well, thank you very much for that information.

You really should try to figure out if the reality of the Citizens United case matches what you've been told and are choosing to believe about it. That, of course, is ultimately up to you.
 
Again, where did you get the idea that the justices want deportation laws to be made more lenient? Can you admit that this is your opinion? Because it sure is not factual.

Sounds like burglary was ruled unconstitutionally vague. That's where they draw the line I guess.
 
Sounds like burglary was ruled unconstitutionally vague. That's where they draw the line I guess.

No, it wasn't. You have no idea at all what you're talking about. None.
 
Yes. You cannot rise above tribalism. How many times are you planning on confirming that by your own testimony?

You're the one who wants to avoid talking about, because you know da** well. I am right about the tribalism that went on after both rulings.
 
So you admit that the ruling could favor liberals. Finally.

Finally? Why do those who engage in political hackery always follow the same tired formula. Let me point you to post #10 in this thread.

...Anyone expecting a man, who styled himself in some ways after Scalia, to be an individual who would always be voting in the politically conservative view on cases was someone who had unrealistic expectations. I'm not a Trump fan, and I'm not happy to see the case go this route politically...

From my very first post I indicated that POLITICALLY, his decision was not one that would benefit a conservative view. I know that it is the standard operating procedure when making hack-style posts that one ignores anything said by those you disagree with that doesn't fit your narrow prejudiced based view on the matter, but as I've told people for years; ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

"That's the way [you] see it"? I'm sure that's the way you see it, because people who come at politics in a hack fashion always see things in the most base, elementary, lacking nuance fashion because that's what best suites their needs to fulfill their predisposed opinion on anything.

If a Hillary Clinton justice broke with the 4 liberal justices on the matter of WHY this law was unconstitutional, disagreeing with their focus and instead focusing on a very Scalia styled textualist argument that the law was two vaguely written, I'd be rather happy and pleasantly surprised at the unexpected shift in judicial methodology even though it came with the same ultimately liberal political consequence.
 
You're the one who wants to avoid talking about, because you know da** well. I am right about the tribalism that went on after both rulings.

Rejecting arguments based entirely on tribalism -- pretty much all of yours -- is demanded by logic and reason.
 
NO? It said some crimes of violence are vague. What are you reading?

No, it said the statutory language citing crimes of violence didn't sufficiently define what "crimes of violence" are. It did not declare "burglary" was "unconstitutionally vague."
 
Sounds like burglary was ruled unconstitutionally vague. That's where they draw the line I guess.

The issue as it related to burglary was that it highlighted the issue of the vaguery of the law simply referencing violent crime. The argument on the opposition regarding "violence" was akin to how one could be charged with armed robbery if you had a gun on your person during the robbery even if you didn't actively USE that gun. The POTENTIAL for violence to occur was viewed as inherent in a crime like burglary where you're entering into another persons home. In contrast, Gorsuch basically felt that the potential for violence isn't necessarily the same thing as a violence, and the fact that the law is vague enough to where such confusion and questioning regarding that can occur is an example of why it is too vague and needs to better spell out exactly what it means in terms of violent crime.
 
If a Hillary Clinton justice broke with the 4 liberal justices on the matter of WHY this law was unconstitutional, disagreeing with their focus and instead focusing on a very Scalia styled textualist argument that the law was two vaguely written, I'd be rather happy and pleasantly surprised at the unexpected shift in judicial methodology even though it came with the same ultimately liberal political consequence.

Of course you would be, and you say you're not a hack. Please we all do it.
 
Of course you would be, and you say you're not a hack. Please we all do it.

He made a perfectly consistent argument based on judicial philosophy, not personality or party. But you, not being able to break out of your tribalism, can't grasp that. And in saying "we all do it," you confirm that you expect everyone to be as tribal as you, just like I said.

Again, how many times are you planning to demonstrate it?
 
The issue as it related to burglary was that it highlighted the issue of the vaguery of the law simply referencing violent crime. The argument on the opposition regarding "violence" was akin to how one could be charged with armed robbery if you had a gun on your person during the robbery even if you didn't actively USE that gun. The POTENTIAL for violence to occur was viewed as inherent in a crime like burglary where you're entering into another persons home. In contrast, Gorsuch basically felt that the potential for violence isn't necessarily the same thing as a violence, and the fact that the law is vague enough to where such confusion and questioning regarding that can occur is an example of why it is too vague and needs to better spell out exactly what it means in terms of violent crime.

Right so it goes to my original point where I said non-violent drug offenders are not going to be subject to deportation once the law is cleared up. Especially if burglary which is way more "violent" than drug use, is the line they measure. Note. The guy in the case is still here in the country, I believe.
 
Of course you would be, and you say you're not a hack. Please we all do it.

Considering I broke from Trump and a variety of conservative/republican types on here just 2 months ago about a judicial issue, my concerns on what someone like you think of me or the legitimacy of my statements are about as impactful on my mind as a fleck of salt on my shoulder. I don't want my judges being politically conservative or political at all, I want them being judicially conservative. Even if that means sometimes that the results don't end up being the political course I'd like to go, that's not the purpose of the court nor the manner in which we should be hoping they function imho.
 
Right so it goes to my original point where I said non-violent drug offenders are not going to be subject to deportation once the law is cleared up.

Quite likely, unless they write it into the law that drug offenders, regardless of whether there was other violence involved, you are correct. You are also correct if you said the sky was blue, or if you said that pizza is a popular food. All of them have the same amount to do with ruling from a judicially conservative methodology as what the legislature may do once the law is back on their desk.

Your "point" was an ignorant one, dealing only with those foolish enough to indulge their own ignorance and judge the judiciary by the same political measures they'd use to judge congress, and laughably attempting to paint an entire side of the political ideological divide as subscribing to such ignorant views.
 
Quite likely, unless they write it into the law that drug offenders, regardless of whether there was other violence involved, you are correct. You are also correct if you said the sky was blue, or if you said that pizza is a popular food. All of them have the same amount to do with ruling from a judicially conservative methodology as what the legislature may do once the law is back on their desk.

Your "point" was an ignorant one, dealing only with those foolish enough to indulge their own ignorance and judge the judiciary by the same political measures they'd use to judge congress, and laughably attempting to paint an entire side of the political ideological divide as subscribing to such ignorant views.

But you turned the conversation into something that I was not talking about. I never once talked about whatever methodology Gorsuch used in his decision. I only highlighted the response to different cases and why I feel it would be bad for conservatives in the long run and that he sided with liberals, and you acted like I was some type of hypocrite when I never wavered from that point. The decision process may have been conservative, but that's not the point I was arguing. I was arguing that it would result in a policy that liberals would favor. Which is what the article originally said.
 
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