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GOP confident of win on witnesses

trixare4kids

trixare4kids

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The latest news on calling witnesses...
Republican senators emerged from a caucus meeting Tuesday voicing confidence they will win a vote later this week that would block new witnesses from being called and end President Trump’s impeachment trial this week.

While Republican sources acknowledged several senators are wrestling with the question of whether to bring in former national security adviser John Bolton as a witness, they said Democrats do not have the four GOP votes they need to win such a vote.

While it does not appear that Republicans have the votes to reject such a motion yet, GOP senators on Tuesday said they thought the caucus would get there.
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So we shall see...

GOP confident of win on witnesses | TheHill
 
Trump can still invoke executive privilege if they are called which then becomes a very drawn out process. Since the democrats say they do not have to have a crime to impeach and the the executive privilege override requires a criminal investigation, they may have poisoned their own argument on that. Every single question asked of the witnesses would be objected to and John Roberts would have to hear arguments and rule on each question asked.
 
Chomsky said:
And here's where democracy dies ...
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No... tsk tsk. :naughty

Democracy "dies" when there is no process at all.

Do people still get to vote? Do States get to select at least 3 "electors" via a "democratic process?"

Are House Reps, and Senators still elected by popular vote? Doesn't Congress still decide taxes?

Nothing that has been happening in the Senate has "killed" American democracy.

Cheer up gloomy Gus. ;)

Just wait till November 2020 and you can vote.
 
Chomsky said:
And here's where democracy dies ...
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Wrong.

This is where democracy gives us a chance to fire these people. Come the glorious month of November, the seats of Ernst, Tillis, Collins, Gardner, McSally and two seats in Georgia will all be up for grabs, and it's just a matter of making people remember there's no such thing as a moderate Republican right now

Many of these fools will simply be signing their own pink slips - Gardner and Collins in particular.
 
Captain Adverse said:
No... tsk tsk. :naughty

Democracy "dies" when there is no process at all.

Do people still get to vote? Do States get to select at least 3 "electors" via a "democratic process?"

Are House Reps, and Senators still elected by popular vote? Doesn't Congress still decide taxes?

Nothing that has been happening in the Senate has "killed" American democracy.

Cheer up gloomy Gus. ;)

Just wait till November 2020 and you can vote.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
Captain Adverse said:
No... tsk tsk. :naughty

Democracy "dies" when there is no process at all.

Do people still get to vote? Do States get to select at least 3 "electors" via a "democratic process?"

Are House Reps, and Senators still elected by popular vote? Doesn't Congress still decide taxes?

Nothing that has been happening in the Senate has "killed" American democracy.

Cheer up gloomy Gus. ;)

Just wait till November 2020 and you can vote.
Click to expand...
It's an affront to truth & the American way. Trivializing it is even more patronizing.
 
Chomsky said:
It's an affront to truth & the American way. Trivializing it is even more patronizing.
Click to expand...

No it isn't, not in either case.

1. It is the process working as designed by those who founded the nation.

2. The ability to agree, disagree, and express our views even tongue in cheek is not "patronizing," but also a part of the processes of a free society.
 
Drawdown said:
Trump can still invoke executive privilege if they are called which then becomes a very drawn out process. Since the democrats say they do not have to have a crime to impeach and the the executive privilege override requires a criminal investigation, they may have poisoned their own argument on that. Every single question asked of the witnesses would be objected to and John Roberts would have to hear arguments and rule on each question asked.
Click to expand...
Trump can do nothing to stop Bolton if the latter is hell bent. Bolton is a former employee and isn't accountable to him, so he is free to speak his mind just as John Dean was. The courts will ignore any lawsuit Trump attempts if Bolton makes clear he wishes to testify.

Furthermore, the WH waived EP when they allowed Bolton to write his book.
 
MovingPictures said:
Wrong.

This is where democracy gives us a chance to fire these people. Come the glorious month of November, the seats of Ernst, Tillis, Collins, Gardner, McSally and two seats in Georgia will all be up for grabs, and it's just a matter of making people remember there's no such thing as a moderate Republican right now

Many of these fools will simply be signing their own pink slips - Gardner and Collins in particular.
Click to expand...
How is hiding the truth from the People good?

No, I disagree with you. This whole thing (Ukraine) has specifically been to illegally influence the upcoming election. And this is more of the same. More. Not less. Democracy dies without transparency. It is that simple.
 
Captain Adverse said:
No it isn't, not in either case.

1. It is the process working as designed by those who founded the nation.

2. The ability to agree, disagree, and express our views even tongue in cheek is not "patronizing," but also a part of the processes of a free society.
Click to expand...
Why do you want the witnesses and evidence secreted, Captain? Why do you want Trump's actions hidden from the American people? Is there some legalistic smoke & mirrors you can fall on to justify keeping witness and evidence from the trial? This smells exactly like it is.
 
You need at least a dozen republicans to vote for impeachment. Without republicans the impeachment is 100% partisan and a sham.
 
Chomsky said:
How is hiding the truth from the People good?

No, I disagree with you. This whole thing (Ukraine) has specifically been to illegally influence the upcoming election. And this is more of the same. More. Not less. Democracy dies without transparency. It is that simple.
Click to expand...
After everything the GOP has perverted, this is just another to be added to the list.

I actually want this. You know why? Because removing Trump is an easy way out for them. No, let them own the fact that they condone criminally behavior. Then it's up the voters who are going to give these senators and house members the HARD way out, where they have to watch in horror as they lose Colorado, Maine, Arizona, North Carolina, and thus their majority because of Trump, in a humiliating defeat that history will never forget.

Can't you see the headlines? "Voters to Trump and GOP senators: You're fired!". God, that sounds beautiful and it's very doable now.
 
swing_voter said:
You need at least a dozen republicans to vote for impeachment. Without republicans the impeachment is 100% partisan and a sham.
Click to expand...
No, they need 20.

The trial is the only sham here.
 
Chomsky said:
Why do you want the witnesses and evidence secreted, Captain? Why do you want Trump's actions hidden from the American people? Is there some legalistic smoke & mirrors you can fall on to justify keeping witness and evidence from the trial? This smells exactly like it is.
Click to expand...
Democrats shouldn't send any Republican controlled Congress a single piece of paper or witness ever again.

Make them go through a lengthy review process that stretches out all the appeals, and wait years to get anything during their witch hunts.

That will starve FOX news when a Democrat is in the WH.
 
Drawdown said:
Trump can still invoke executive privilege if they are called which then becomes a very drawn out process. Since the democrats say they do not have to have a crime to impeach and the the executive privilege override requires a criminal investigation, they may have poisoned their own argument on that. Every single question asked of the witnesses would be objected to and John Roberts would have to hear arguments and rule on each question asked.
Click to expand...
Trump already tweeted about Bolton and the book, which waives any privilege, which I don’t think existed.
 
Chomsky said:
How is hiding the truth from the People good?

No, I disagree with you. This whole thing (Ukraine) has specifically been to illegally influence the upcoming election. And this is more of the same. More. Not less. Democracy dies without transparency. It is that simple.
Click to expand...

(sigh) I'm surprised at you.

In the first place, if the House wanted to reveal "hidden truths," the time was during the House Impeachment Investigation. For example, if they really believed either Bolton or anyone else had some important evidence, then they should have forced the issue in the Court. Recall, both the Nixon effort and the Clinton Impeachment process each took years, not months.

In the second place, IMO even if Bolton is speaking absolute truth, i.e. aid was contingent on Ukraine investigating Biden, where is the proof the design was to influence the election as opposed to simply investigating corruption? In other words, your are presuming "bad motive" based on your personal bias against Trump, when Trump is pretty open about most of his motives especially when it comes to foreign aid.

Meanwhile, it is also (IMHO) hypocritical to dismiss real issues (raised back when Biden was VP) of both corruption and conflict of interest which led to an openly bragged about "quid pro quo," while at the same time condemning Trump for alleged corrupt purpose "quid pro quo."

I personally don't see his actions designed to "influence the election" as more to satisfy his own concerns about both "CrowdStrike," and Biden/Burisma corruption. Also, why should Biden be "immune" when Trump himself wasn't back in 2015/16?
 
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MTAtech said:
Trump already tweeted about Bolton and the book, which waives any privilege, which I don’t think existed.
Click to expand...

No it does not waive executive privilege
 
MovingPictures said:
Trump can do nothing to stop Bolton if the latter is hell bent. Bolton is a former employee and isn't accountable to him, so he is free to speak his mind just as John Dean was. The courts will ignore any lawsuit Trump attempts if Bolton makes clear he wishes to testify.

Furthermore, the WH waived EP when they allowed Bolton to write his book.
Click to expand...

TheWH did not waive EP that is why the book is at the WH right now and no he cannot testify if he is hell bent on it because he does not control the Senate.
 
MovingPictures said:
After everything the GOP has perverted, this is just another to be added to the list.

I actually want this. You know why? Because removing Trump is an easy way out for them. No, let them own the fact that they condone criminally behavior. Then it's up the voters who are going to give these senators and house members the HARD way out, where they have to watch in horror as they lose Colorado, Maine, Arizona, North Carolina, and thus their majority because of Trump, in a humiliating defeat that history will never forget.

Can't you see the headlines? "Voters to Trump and GOP senators: You're fired!". God, that sounds beautiful and it's very doable now.
Click to expand...
No one is removing Trump via the Senate. And if you want Trump to be removed via electorate, the electorate needs to be informed. And informed electorate is the first tenet of democracy.

I'm not sure we all realize what's going on here. Trump is being given free reign to go out and influence the upcoming election in any way he chooses. He found he can be fully ignorant of Congress, and now he is soon to be impeachment-poof. This is some very, very, dangerous stuff. Especially with Trump. Because the moment McConnel swings the gavel, Trump will double down on fixing the upcoming election in even further ways than we can imagine.
 
MovingPictures said:
Trump can do nothing to stop Bolton if the latter is hell bent. Bolton is a former employee and isn't accountable to him, so he is free to speak his mind just as John Dean was. The courts will ignore any lawsuit Trump attempts if Bolton makes clear he wishes to testify.

Furthermore, the WH waived EP when they allowed Bolton to write his book.
Click to expand...

Not sure you are correct as Don McGahn is also a former Trump employee and is still kept at bay by executive privilege.
 
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