GOP AGs Attack Healthcare

[trouble13]

That's an issue they have to deal with - it's their system, not ours.

That thought/statement prompted me to wonder how many people die in the USA while waiting for medical care, or due to avoiding it as a result of it's cost.

So far my google-fu seems to be failing, or else there aren't any recent studies of that.
Most recent articles even close to that topic are about the VA, not the healthcare system as a whole.

Edit: There is this, but it's about human or system errors causing deaths, not waiting times:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

You ask a fair counter question that I would like to know the answer to as well

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[Nickyjo]

Other nations struggle with their own healthcare and debt problems while the US deals with its own. We cannot take just the fact of healthcare in other nations as some sort of standard if we refuse to consider the problems those programs are causing as well as the debts the nations are struggling with. Healthcare is not free. In fact, it is so expensive many nations, including the US, are in debt over their heads with so rational deliverance in sight.

Good points, if true. So lets find a solution. Repair or replace Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA if deemed necessary. Copy what's good from the Euros if necessary, avoid their mistakes. (They seem to spend less than we do with better outcomes, but that's another argument.) What I dont understand is some conservatives religious-like devotion to the (supposedly) free market in a way that reminds me of some Marxists-Leninists I ran into years ago who ignored it.

I am on Medicare and Social Security. Unemployed before retirement I benefited from a federal program I bought into that covered the otherwise un-insurable, as I have Crohn's disease. Medicare and SS have lasted for half a century or more. Just about all of the world has decided to file off the rough edges of the extraordinarily productive system that is capitalism by mixing in socialist solutions from minimum wage to the post office to the interstate highway system. Most of us long ago decided that we didnt want to read over private retirement or medical literature for survival needs, that we prefer a guaranteed safety net. This allows us to get supplemental insurance, which is also subsidized by the government. Seems to have worked.

 

[The Mark]

Do you see any drawbacks to your vision of healthcare? If so what are they?

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If such a system becomes too generalized and doesn't account sufficiently for local issues, that would be a problem.

Of lesser danger is the possibility of legislating what we should and should not eat, but we were already considering doing that kind of thing without a single-payer healthcare system.

Another concern is that there may be insufficient funding allocated to incentivize an increase in the number of trained staff (doctors, nurses, etc).
We'll need more if we're treating more people, probably.

 

[Diving Mullah]

Pre existing comditions are the biggest problem with healthcare garuntees

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Biggest problem with Health Care is having Healthcare system that is for Profit.

Because the business model is to collect as much money as you can from your customer and spend as little as you can. Upside since there is very little competition and some of your customer tend to die, that is not really a problem!


Diving Mullah

 

[marke]

Good points, if true. So lets find a solution. Repair or replace Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA if deemed necessary. Copy what's good from the Euros if necessary, avoid their mistakes. (They seem to spend less than we do with better outcomes, but that's another argument.) What I dont understand is some conservatives religious-like devotion to the (supposedly) free market in a way that reminds me of some Marxists-Leninists I ran into years ago who ignored it.

I am on Medicare and Social Security. Unemployed before retirement I benefited from a federal program I bought into that covered the otherwise un-insurable, as I have Crohn's disease. Medicare and SS have lasted for half a century or more. Just about all of the world has decided to file off the rough edges of the extraordinarily productive system that is capitalism by mixing in socialist solutions from minimum wage to the post office to the interstate highway system. Most of us long ago decided that we didnt want to read over private retirement or medical literature for survival needs, that we prefer a guaranteed safety net. This allows us to get supplemental insurance, which is also subsidized by the government. Seems to have worked.

I never had health insurance before I retired. I am now forced onto Medicare. I don't care. I just wish people still had the option I had which was to go through life without medical insurance coverage. I had no coverage for myself, my wife, or any of my 8 living children when they were at home.

 

[Greenbeard]

Since i have never argued getting rid of those your strawman is blowing -> you might want to go get it.

You've argued that (1) providers won't offer care in the face of "super low cuts" and (2) that a cash or HSA-based system is going to substantially lower prices, haven't you? So what's a fair price for a 15 minute drop-in with your PCP?

it would cost 40 trillion over 10 years for your UHC.

And how much do you think the U.S. is going to spend on health care over the next decade?

 

[marke]

A LOT die in the US waiting care

Same thing happens in other countries. However, where is our government going to get the trillions of dollars needed to transform its bad Medicare system into a single-payer system, from everybody paying double-digit increases in taxes? And leftists call this high mandated taxation heaven on earth?

 

[vegas giants]

Same thing happens in other countries. However, where is our government going to get the trillions of dollars needed to transform its bad Medicare system into a single-payer system, from everybody paying double-digit increases in taxes? And leftists call this high mandated taxation heaven on earth?

It will cost less to have single payer

 

[vegas giants]

I never had health insurance before I retired. I am now forced onto Medicare. I don't care. I just wish people still had the option I had which was to go through life without medical insurance coverage. I had no coverage for myself, my wife, or any of my 8 living children when they were at home.

If they got very sick WE would have paid the bill

 

[Bassman]

Pre-Existing condition regulations could have been voted on as a standalone bill, and not part of the huge governmental albatross known as Obamacare.

 

[rickc]

how do we cut the cost of health care in america. Peruse this list.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-prices-are-ludicrous/?utm_term=.d42594538391

 

[marke]

It will cost less to have single payer

If a poor man with six kids and less than $30,000 in yearly income wants to buy a $350,000 car what sense does it make to talk him into buying a cheaper $200,000 car he cannot afford instead?

 

[marke]

If they got very sick WE would have paid the bill

Yes, under universal government healthcare everybody pays for every little skyrocketing cost of healthcare for all the sick, from the least to the greatest in need.

 

[ludin]

You've argued that (1) providers won't offer care in the face of "super low cuts" and (2) that a cash or HSA-based system is going to substantially lower prices, haven't you? So what's a fair price for a 15 minute drop-in with your PCP?

You should read what you are responding too. I have never argued for getting rid of SS. I have said it needs reformed. I have stated that giving to everyone is a horrible idea.
I have argued that less insurance clout in the system and better regulations will lower costs.

Why do you think you do not pay 5000 a year for car insurance (unless you are a horrible driver)? because your car insurance doesn't cover every ding, dent, oil change or tire replacement
that you have. Car insurance only comes into play when you have an emergency.

healthcare costs would drop dramatically if health insurance operated the same way. the HSA would cover your day to day medical needs. insurance would only kick in when you have that emergancy
that requires you to go to the hospital. the difference is that insurance pays whatever the cash price is not some clouted over blown insurance price. there are no deductibles or anything else.
what you pay for is the coverage that you want. whether it is 70/30, 80/20. 90/10 or 100%.

no the only people dropping PCP are the people that think government healthcare is going to save them.

And how much do you think the U.S. is going to spend on health care over the next decade?

< 40 trillion right now.

 

[vegas giants]

If a poor man with six kids and less than $30,000 in yearly income wants to buy a $350,000 car what sense does it make to talk him into buying a cheaper $200,000 car he cannot afford instead?

No idea what you are on about

 

[Nickyjo]

I never had health insurance before I retired. I am now forced onto Medicare. I don't care. I just wish people still had the option I had which was to go through life without medical insurance coverage. I had no coverage for myself, my wife, or any of my 8 living children when they were at home.

I prefer to live and not go broke.

 

[Nickyjo]

Yes, the rest fo the world figured out how to be slaves to the state...

I have Medicare plus a supplemental plan (tax deductible) to deal with an incurable disease. Plus I drive to the doctor’s office in the interstate I am forced to pay for. I love the shackles the state puts on me.

 

[marke]

No idea what you are on about

Poor dads can hardly get excited about paying high taxes to cover universal health care for everybody in the nation, including really sick old people, people with really expensive lifelong health problems, illegal aliens and their relatives, and so forth.

 

[vegas giants]

Poor dads can hardly get excited about paying high taxes to cover universal health care for everybody in the nation, including really sick old people, people with really expensive lifelong health problems, illegal aliens and their relatives, and so forth.

Poor dads are suppossed to be happy with high deductibles and co pays that can bankrupt them currently?

 

[Greenbeard]

healthcare costs would drop dramatically if health insurance operated the same way. the HSA would cover your day to day medical needs.

Cool. So what's a fair price for 15 minutes with your PCP?

< 40 trillion right now.

Well I hope you're sitting down.

The current projections for total health spending over the 2017-2026 time span are $45 trillion.

 

[ludin]

Cool. So what's a fair price for 15 minutes with your PCP?



Well I hope you're sitting down.

The current projections for total health spending over the 2017-2026 time span are $45 trillion.

the market would decide.
right now the cash price for a CT is 275 bucks at places. insurance is charging people 2000.
but with competition prices would come down.

https://www.consumerreports.org/hea...ing-your-doctor-in-cash-could-save-you-money/

i guess consumer reports is on PCP as well. interesting they say i am right.
800 bucks for a ecogram vs 400. hmmm interesting.

yep which means the cost of your free healthcare would be about the same or more.
thanks for playing. yeah that 32+ trillion is after all the supposed cost savings. lol

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...icare-for-all-bill-estimated-at-32-6-trillion

it's free it's free lmao.

until your doctor says umm yea i am not working for 40% less have a nice day.

 

[Greenbeard]

the market would decide.
right now the cash price for a CT is 275 bucks at places. insurance is charging people 2000.
but with competition prices would come down.

They'd be lower than Medicare prices?

 

[marke]

Poor dads are suppossed to be happy with high deductibles and co pays that can bankrupt them currently?

Who gives the money to the government so the government can bail out the poor dad with co pays to cover the high cost of the universally mandated health care tax? The slightly richer dad who has a middle class job and a high class tax bill.

 

[vegas giants]

Who gives the money to the government so the government can bail out the poor dad with co pays to cover the high cost of the universally mandated health care tax? The slightly richer dad who has a middle class job and a high class tax bill.

Yeah lets not do that and just have single payer

 

[marke]

Yeah lets not do that and just have single payer

Every young working dad might not be happy to have to pay very high taxes just so the US can cover everybody with every disease within its borders.