Good guys with guns kill good guy, gunmen still at large.

[calamity]

OK, gunners. Here's your chance. Prove me wrong.

Alabama police say a black man mistaken for an active shooter during a mall shooting had "heightened the sense of threat" by drawing his own firearm after shots rang out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46350307

Let's see you defend the black man.

 

[calamity]

So you don't think the fact he was carrying a drawn weapon had anything to do with it?

Why would it in an open carry state?

 

[Lursa]

Sure... let him run away, maybe he can find better cover or some hostages to kill.

If you've got a gun in your hand, I've got news for you.... you're the culprit.

You mean like that security guard the cops killed last week? :roll:

 

[justabubba]

:lol: Seriously? :lamo

absolutely

in that chaotic scenario, why do you believe a cop would not have shot a white man in the same situation

 

[calamity]

absolutely

in that chaotic scenario, why do you believe a cop would not have shot a white man in the same situation

Because they wouldn't have. Duh.

 

[Cordelier]

Why would it in an open carry state?

There's a big difference between carrying and CARRYING, though.... let's face facts here - we're talking about Alabama here, not Idaho. Odds are pretty good that Mr. Bradford wasn't the only black person running in that crowded mall in the wake of the shooting. So why do you figure he was the only one shot?

 

[calamity]

There's a big difference between carrying and CARRYING, though.... let's face facts here - we're talking about Alabama here, not Idaho. Odds are pretty good that Mr. Bradford wasn't the only black person running in that crowded mall in the wake of the shooting. So why do you figure he was the only one shot?

Because the cop was stupid.

 

[Cordelier]

You mean like that security guard the cops killed last week? :roll:

I don't know, Lursa... it's hard to keep up with every shooting that happens.

 

[justabubba]

Because they wouldn't have. Duh.

you have not explained why
what would have caused the difference

 

[Cordelier]

Because the cop was stupid.

Do you know him personally?

 

[calamity]

I don't know, Lursa... it's hard to keep up with every shooting that happens.

Well, in my state, we had a cop shoot a 12-year old boy for playing with a toy gun.

Then we had a guy walking in a Wal-Mart get shot for having one too.

More recently, Texas had a man shot in his home because a cop thought it was her home.

A guard in Michigan who was holding a suspect at gun point got shot by cops.

And, now in Alabama another cop shot a veteran.

What do all the victims have in common? They black.

 

[calamity]

you have not explained why
what would have caused the difference

If it had been a white guy running after a shooter, he would have been awarded a medal. But, since it was a back guy, he was considered the shooter.

 

[Lursa]

I don't know, Lursa... it's hard to keep up with every shooting that happens.

Er...not every 'good guy' that uses his or her gun to stop a crime may have it put away before cops arrive...but according to you, tough titties...they had their gun out, what's a cop supposed to do? Why, just shoot 'em and let God sort 'em out later according to you.

 

[Cordelier]

Well, in my state, we had a cop shoot a 12-year old boy for playing with a toy gun.

Then we had a guy walking in a Wal-Mart get shot for having one too.

More recently, Texas had a man shot in his home because a cop thought it was her home.

A guard in Michigan who was holding a suspect at gun point got shot by cops.

And, now in Alabama another cop shot a veteran.

What do all the victims have in common? They black.

I'm not saying racially-motivated shootings don't happen, Cal.... they're a serious problem that needs to be dealt with severely. I just don't think this incident qualifies, though. I could see your point if Mr. Bradford was unarmed, or even armed but not brandishing a gun. But that's not the case here.

 

[SkyFox76]

you have not explained why
what would have caused the difference

As I've already stated idk if this shooting was race related, but have you watched any of the videos where people react to an armed white person vs black? They clearly differ. And not by anything other than skin color. It's kind of eye opening.

 

[Cordelier]

Er...not every 'good guy' that uses his or her gun to stop a crime may have it put away before cops arrive...but according to you, tough titties...they had their gun out, what's a cop supposed to do? Why, just shoot 'em and let God sort 'em out later according to you.

That's the risk you take when you pull, Lursa. Don't pull unless you intend to kill... and always realize that doing so makes you an instant target. Of course, if you're already in the midst of a shooting, you're a target anyway, so it doesn't make any difference. But if the shooting stops, or the original shooter flees or you're not under direct threat anymore, if you're still brandishing that weapon, it means you still intend to kill... and that makes you a legitimate target.

 

[Lursa]

That's the risk you take when you pull, Lursa. Don't pull unless you intend to kill... and always realize that doing so makes you an instant target. Of course, if you're already in the midst of a shooting, you're a target anyway, so it doesn't make any difference. But if the shooting stops, or the original shooter flees or you're not under direct threat anymore, if you're still brandishing that weapon, it means you still intend to kill... and that makes you a legitimate target.

Yes I know, I've had training. I've been writing the same :doh

And no it doesnt mean you still mean to kill. It means you are still capable of doing so...just like you were before you drew. And holding a weapon is not a legal excuse to execute someone. It's about context and circumstances. Words like 'imminent' and 'opportunity,' come to mind. Running away with a gun is not an imminent threat to a person.

Another basic is always identify your target before shooting. Cops FAILED.

 

[TurtleDude]

Does that apply to armed civilians? Can I shoot a cop if they point their gun at me?

sometimes but the burden of proof is going to be stacked against you. Kevin Harris shot a deputy US marshal and the court ruled it justifiable because the DUSM had just shot a boy in the back

 

[Cordelier]

Yes I know, I've had training. I've been writing the same :doh

And no it doesnt mean you still mean to kill. It means you are still capable of doing so...just like you were before you drew. And holding a weapon is not a legal excuse to execute someone. It's about context and circumstances. Words like 'imminent' and 'opportunity,' come to mind. Running away with a gun is not an imminent threat to a person.

Another basic is always identify your target before shooting. Cops FAILED.

They identified the guy with the drawn gun. Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

Does a suspect have to be a threat to the cop in order for the cop to take action? Just because he was running away from the cops didn't necessarily mean he wasn't running toward that 8 year-old girl in the corner, does it?

Doesn't the cop have an equal, if not greater, responsibility to safeguard that 8 year-old girl's safety as he does his own?

 

[justabubba]

As I've already stated idk if this shooting was race related, but have you watched any of the videos where people react to an armed white person vs black? They clearly differ. And not by anything other than skin color. It's kind of eye opening.

i was so hoping calamity would have responded with something such as this:

“[O]ur attitudes towards things like race or gender operate on two levels. First of all, we have our conscious attitudes. This is what we choose to believe. These are our stated values, which we use to direct our behavior deliberately . . . But the IAT [Implicit Association Test] measures something else. It measures our second level of attitude, our racial attitude on an unconscious level - the immediate, automatic associations that tumble out before we've even had time to think. We don't deliberately choose our unconscious attitudes. And . . . we may not even be aware of them. The giant computer that is our unconscious silently crunches all the data it can from the experiences we've had, the people we've met, the lessons we've learned, the books we've read, the movies we've seen, and so on, and it forms an opinion.”
― Malcolm Gladwell, Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1180927-blink-the-power-of-thinking-without-thinking?page=3

or this:
https://everydaythomist.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/what-malcolm-gladwells-blink-teaches-about-virtue/

knowing the cause might help us identify solutions

 

[TurtleDude]

It's not kill or be killed when the gunman is running away from you.

Certainly not when you dont even know who the real culprit is :roll:

Lead detective to turtle: why did you shoot the defendant only once?

Turtle to lead detective-because after I shot him once, he was no longer a threat to my safety

Lead Detective to Turtle: why didn't you shoot the other defendant-he was attempting to choke you

Turtle to LD: after I shot the attacker who had hit me in the face, the other attacker released me and put his hands up and said-Don't shoot me, man. Since he was no longer a threat, I put the weapon safe and when he started running away, I retreated to my apartment and called the police.

LD to Turtle: when did you realize that the two defendants were no longer threats to you:

Turtle to LD: after I shot the first attacker, he stopped assaulting me and staggered away and his partner surrendered by putting his hands up and then turning his back and running. At that time I was able to retreat and lock the door.

LD after conferring with a patrol officer: witnesses back up your version of this incident, however, the DA wants to talk to you-are you willing to meet with him

TD to LD-yes sir,.

LD-to TD-tell him what you told me, you'll be fine

TD to LD-yes sir.

 

[Lursa]

Lead detective to turtle: why did you shoot the defendant only once?

Turtle to lead detective-because after I shot him once, he was no longer a threat to my safety

Always the key IMO.

 

[Lursa]

They identified the guy with the drawn gun. Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

Does a suspect have to be a threat to the cop in order for the cop to take action? Just because he was running away from the cops didn't necessarily mean he wasn't running toward that 8 year-old girl in the corner, does it?

Doesn't the cop have an equal, if not greater, responsibility to safeguard that 8 year-old girl's safety as he does his own?

So now you're inventing stuff?

And no, they didnt know anything about the dead guy...they just shot him. Dont add 'possible' kids.

 

[Cordelier]

So now you're inventing stuff?

And no, they didnt know anything about the dead guy...they just shot him. Dont add 'possible' kids.

It was a crowded mall.... there was a shooting - I imagine there were a lot of people of all different types running around in panic. You can't just let someone go running around holding a gun. If you've got a shot in that situation, you have to take it.

 

[Lursa]

It was a crowded mall.... there was a shooting - I imagine there were a lot of people of all different types running around in panic. You can't just let someone go running around holding a gun. If you've got a shot in that situation, you have to take it.

Yup...and see what ya got?

Wrong guy dead...and you still keep saying they did the right thing :roll: