Glenn Beck says Muslim Brotherhood wants to declare war on Israel (1 Viewer)

[mbig]

Thank you Lerxst for the sincere reply.

For the record. I am not a Glenn Beck/Fox/Faux News fan.. AT ALL.
But Beck does, and has in this case, hit on an issue of concern to even the most Liberal commentators.
Beck has a melodramatic, Biblical, 'good-and-evil' view of the planet....often alarmist as well.
ie, his recent attack on Soros was over the top- but had plenty of truth about who's funding Leftist causes.

So let's not use "name calling" on him either when he hits on an issue with more than a kernel of truth.

thx

 

[LookingGlass]

Beck is a media whore just like Matthews, Maddow, O'Reilly, Hannity, Huffington, etc., etc., etc. That being said, of course, The muslim brotherhood wants to declare war on Israel...duh...you don't have to have a PhD in theoretical physics to figure that one.

 

[Ockham]

Leading members, you say?

The information is in the article on politifact, I say.

The Guidance Bureau. Just google them, there is plenty of info on them.

I didn't find a list. If you've got one, I'd like to see it. The Politifact article didn't have a list either.

 

[Lerxst]

I didn't find a list. If you've got one, I'd like to see it. The Politifact article didn't have a list either.

We both linked the Muslim Brotherhoods website directly. I suggested that you people search, like I did, for this so called "leading member." You will find NOTHING on him anywhere. Spud posted a wiki page linking the known leadership of the MB. You apparently don't care to do any work for yourself on this issue and prefer the dog whistle commands of Glenn Beck and his lackey Stu. Fine...we get it. You will take the unsubstantiated regurgitation of the Der Spiegel article...why? Who really cares at this point, you just do.

This is one of the very reasons I got burned out on this site. Too many people don't give two ****s about intelligent debate.

 

[Gardener]

Thank you Lerxst for the sincere reply.

For the record. I am not a Glenn Beck/Fox/Faux News fan.. AT ALL.
But Beck does, and has in this case, hit on an issue of concern to even the most Liberal commentators.
Beck has a melodramatic, Biblical, 'good-and-evil' view of the planet....often alarmist as well.
ie, his recent attack on Soros was over the top- but had plenty of truth about who's funding Leftist causes.

So let's not use "name calling" on him either when he hits on an issue with more than a kernel of truth.

thx

The problem here isn't Beck, who is a buffoon and a hack, but all those who view him as a buffoon and therefore simply stake out a political territory opposite him. In this case, instead of learning anything about the Muslim Brotherhood or their ambitions, they simply dismiss them out of hand, mischaracterize them, or at worst -- indulge in these flippant accusations against other posters via this hackneyed "you are calling all muslims terrorist" nonsense.

 

[Lerxst]

The problem here isn't Beck, who is a buffoon and a hack, but all those who view him as a buffoon and therefore simply stake out a political territory opposite him. In this case, instead of learning anything about the Muslim Brotherhood or their ambitions, they simply dismiss them out of hand, mischaracterize them, or at worst -- indulge in these flippant accusations against other posters via this hackneyed "you are calling all muslims terrorist" nonsense.

Nonsense G. The man is willfully engaging in fear mongering (for who knows what reason) by blowing the situation out of proportion. The Muslim Brotherhood, while certainly not a friend to the US or Israel, does not have the popularity needed to take control of the Egyptian government, wage war on Israel, and establish a Caliphate. Further Beck is being irresponsible in how he's propogating unsubstantiated information in his rhetoric. It's not about simply staking out opposing political territiory in this debate...it's about calling Beck and his network out over this nonsense because they deserve it. **** the Muslim Brotherhood...I don't like them. But there is no need to make them out to be more than they are just so we can rail against them. There is plenty of reason to criticize them contained within the truth about their organization.

 

[TheBook]

Beck is a media whore just like Matthews, Maddow, O'Reilly, Hannity, Huffington, etc., etc., etc. That being said, of course, The muslim brotherhood wants to declare war on Israel...duh...you don't have to have a PhD in theoretical physics to figure that one.

*shakes head* Show me something to indicate it, and then we'll talk.

 

[TheBook]

People here aren't arguing that the MB are swell guys, they're somewhat shady and suspect.

There are real threats to be seen.

But when we hear some idiot yelling about how they are tied to Al-Qaeda (the two organizations hate each other, that's why Bin Laden left the Brotherhood) and want to attack Israel (No one is that stupid, Israel is one of the only mideast powers that has nukes, you you can bet your ass they would use them) then I have to roll my eyes and point out why they're wrong.

 

[Zaserac]

We both linked the Muslim Brotherhoods website directly. I suggested that you people search, like I did, for this so called "leading member." You will find NOTHING on him anywhere. Spud posted a wiki page linking the known leadership of the MB. You apparently don't care to do any work for yourself on this issue and prefer the dog whistle commands of Glenn Beck and his lackey Stu. Fine...we get it. You will take the unsubstantiated regurgitation of the Der Spiegel article...why? Who really cares at this point, you just do.

This is one of the very reasons I got burned out on this site. Too many people don't give two ****s about intelligent debate.

In an intelligent debate the fact the Iranian news network Al-Alam thinks that Muhammad Ghannem is a leading member of the MB would carry some weight. A fact ignored by everyone in the thread in favor of the "Beck is wrong" theme. Though this was never an intelligent debate from the OP onward. Just another of the daily anti Beck threads that get started by the same people everyday at DP. I'm with you though, DP wears pretty thin if you are looking for intelligent debate in a thread like this. Even the author of the OP managed to get himself banned from it.

 

[Lerxst]

In an intelligent debate the fact the Iranian news network Al-Alam thinks that Muhammad Ghannem is a leading member of the MB would carry some weight. A fact ignored by everyone in the thread in favor of the "Beck is wrong" theme. Though this was never an intelligent debate from the OP onward. Just another of the daily anti Beck threads that get started by the same people everyday at DP. I'm with you though, DP wears pretty thin if you are looking for intelligent debate in a thread like this. Even the author of the OP managed to get himself banned from it.

If it can't be substantiated or corroborated then it doesn't carry very much weight until such time as it is confirmed. The thread was about Becks (and Fox's) typical MO. The criticism is absolutely warranted. His statements are over inflated and inaccurate and that is partially by design (the inflated part).

 

[Zaserac]

If it can't be substantiated or corroborated then it doesn't carry very much weight until such time as it is confirmed. The thread was about Becks (and Fox's) typical MO. The criticism is absolutely warranted. His statements are over inflated and inaccurate and that is partially by design (the inflated part).

Naturally that nobody has addressed the fact that the leading newspaper in Iran has identified Ghannem as a leading member matters! It is only after all their quotation of the man and their publication of the quote that everyone is arguing over! Of course the fact that the Iranian newspaper and Der Spiegel have identified this man as a leading member is trumped by the fact he is not listed so on the MB website! Of course! So much for the intelligent part of the so called debate.

 

[TheBook]

Naturally that nobody has addressed the fact that the leading newspaper in Iran has identified Ghannem as a leading member matters! It is only after all their quotation of the man and their publication of the quote that everyone is arguing over! Of course the fact that the Iranian newspaper and Der Spiegel have identified this man as a leading member is trumped by the fact he is not listed so on the MB website! Of course! So much for the intelligent part of the so called debate.

But he is. He is a representative in the U.K.

Their current leader is listed on the website, including posts from his election, announcements of his history etc.

Unless they traveled back in time and created new articles from 2009 (I also saw one in the L.A. times a while back mentioning him) then this seems to be pretty legitimate info.

 

[dontworrybehappy]

But he is. He is a representative in the U.K.

Their current leader is listed on the website, including posts from his election, announcements of his history etc.

Unless they traveled back in time and created new articles from 2009 (I also saw one in the L.A. times a while back mentioning him) then this seems to be pretty legitimate info.

Will PB apologize? Oh wait, is he thread banned? I know he's thread banned from one thread, but I sure the hell don't remember which one it is.

 

[DarkWizard12]

You are just another naive and dilusional liberal who doesn't know who the enemy is and when you are going to be killed.

Beck pointed the BLATANTLY OBVIOUS out, and liberals can't even agree because of the mere fact that his name is beck. damn...just...damn!

 

[Ockham]

We both linked the Muslim Brotherhoods website directly. I suggested that you people search, like I did, for this so called "leading member."

The MB website does not provide a list of members, other than Khairat el-Shater as Deputy Chairman. I checked the "About", and some articles identify Mohammed Badie as the Chairman. I Googled "Muslim Brotherhood leading member" as you suggested, no list. No list. So I'll repeat for the 3rd time... show me a list of members and provide a link.

You will find NOTHING on him anywhere. Spud posted a wiki page linking the known leadership of the MB. You apparently don't care to do any work for yourself on this issue and prefer the dog whistle commands of Glenn Beck and his lackey Stu. Fine...we get it. You will take the unsubstantiated regurgitation of the Der Spiegel article...why? Who really cares at this point, you just do.

Apparently you don't get it. Your argument is basically the same argument pulled from the Politifact article, claiming Ghannem is NOT a leader in the MB, yet there is no list of who the actual leaders are nor a definition from within the MB of what they consider a "leader". So, you parrot a negative - since information cannot be provided about Ghannem, that lack of information therefore PROVES he's no leader. Quite a break down in logic. Yet, here's Ghannem on Al-Alam TV (Iran) in January 2011.

MEMRI: Muhammad Ghanem, Muslim Brotherhood Representative in London, Calls for Civil Disobedience, Including "Halting Passage through the Suez Canal... and Preparing for War with Israel"

I guess you'll continue to claim he doesn't speak for the MB. That's fine - as it proves my earlier point that the MB does not have a heiarchy list of members, so they can assign members to make claims and then disassociate those claims by saying "he doesn't speak for the leadership". Which is a very advantageous position to be in --- make statements without having to claim ownership of those statements.

This is one of the very reasons I got burned out on this site. Too many people don't give two ****s about intelligent debate.

Intelligent debate isn't the problem with you - it's that everyone doesn't bow to your opinion. I'm not defending Beck, I'm defending MY statement, which I have and you helped to confirm. Ghanem did speak out, Ghanem did make those claims (note: Politifact did not identify the Jeruselam post misquoted, and what organization said they never heard of Ghanem? The Woodrow Wilson Center... which is supposed to be an academic and scholarship center said they never heard of Mohammad Ghanem.

MEMRI Mobile - - Mohammed Ghanem, Muslim Brotherhood Representative in the UK: The Egyptian Regime is a Dictatorship
MEMRI: Mohammed Ghanem, Muslim Brotherhood Representative in the UK: The Egyptian Regime is a Dictatorship

And then we have the following:

The identification of Mr. Ghanem as a Muslim Brotherhood representative is supported by UK corporate records which list a Mohamed Ghanem as a director of World Media Services, known to have been affiliated with the Al-Markaz al-I’lami lil-Ikhwan al-Muslimin (Information Centre of the Muslim Brotherhood), London. Al-Da’awa, a Muslim Brotherhood magazine formerly edited by UK-based Muslim Brotherhood spokesman Kamal Helbawy, was published by World Media Services, which is known to have shared premises with the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB), one of the UK Muslim Brotherhood organizations.

http://globalmbreport.org/?p=3847

The Woodrow Wilson Center has therefore failed in their attempt at being "scholarly" as the facts, as you so clearly want to be brought forth here, support Ghanem is who the Jersulam Post SAID he was. Which proves my point and puts a nail in the coffin to your charge that my statement was fale.

Have a nice day.

 

[Josie]

I can't find any mention of him on the MB's website, and I found nothing else about him on the internet except for those quotes, and he's not mentioned on this list of MB leaders. Perhaps if you could provide some info on his role in the MB.

spud, here's why using wikipedia as a source doesn't work. It says at the top of the list of members that it might not reflect recent changes and the first supposed current member is dead.

 

[Lerxst]

The MB website does not provide a list of members, other than Khairat el-Shater as Deputy Chairman. I checked the "About", and some articles identify Mohammed Badie as the Chairman. I Googled "Muslim Brotherhood leading member" as you suggested, no list. No list. So I'll repeat for the 3rd time... show me a list of members and provide a link.

Apparently you don't get it. Your argument is basically the same argument pulled from the Politifact article, claiming Ghannem is NOT a leader in the MB, yet there is no list of who the actual leaders are nor a definition from within the MB of what they consider a "leader". So, you parrot a negative - since information cannot be provided about Ghannem, that lack of information therefore PROVES he's no leader. Quite a break down in logic. Yet, here's Ghannem on Al-Alam TV (Iran) in January 2011.

MEMRI: Muhammad Ghanem, Muslim Brotherhood Representative in London, Calls for Civil Disobedience, Including "Halting Passage through the Suez Canal... and Preparing for War with Israel"

I guess you'll continue to claim he doesn't speak for the MB. That's fine - as it proves my earlier point that the MB does not have a heiarchy list of members, so they can assign members to make claims and then disassociate those claims by saying "he doesn't speak for the leadership". Which is a very advantageous position to be in --- make statements without having to claim ownership of those statements.

Intelligent debate isn't the problem with you - it's that everyone doesn't bow to your opinion. I'm not defending Beck, I'm defending MY statement, which I have and you helped to confirm. Ghanem did speak out, Ghanem did make those claims (note: Politifact did not identify the Jeruselam post misquoted, and what organization said they never heard of Ghanem? The Woodrow Wilson Center... which is supposed to be an academic and scholarship center said they never heard of Mohammad Ghanem.

MEMRI Mobile - - Mohammed Ghanem, Muslim Brotherhood Representative in the UK: The Egyptian Regime is a Dictatorship
MEMRI: Mohammed Ghanem, Muslim Brotherhood Representative in the UK: The Egyptian Regime is a Dictatorship

And then we have the following:


The Global Muslim Brotherhood Daily Report » MIDEAST CRISIS: UK Muslim Brotherhood Representative Says Egyptian People Should Prepare For War With Israel; Suez Canal Should Be Closed

The Woodrow Wilson Center has therefore failed in their attempt at being "scholarly" as the facts, as you so clearly want to be brought forth here, support Ghanem is who the Jersulam Post SAID he was. Which proves my point and puts a nail in the coffin to your charge that my statement was fale.

Have a nice day.

I've never argued he isn't a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. I've argued there is no proof he is a "leading member" other than the news articles repeating this claim. What I've seen doesn't corroborate he's a leader, it just says he's one in their characterization of him. It's a statement made not by the MB, but by a news agency that has been repeated several times and somehow become truth without any further verification. You're claiming that because somebody said it on the internet or in a news article is absolutely true. I've acknowledged he was their spokesman in the UK. The very fact that there is no mention of his statements being the message of the MB on their official site is very important.

You have to do your homework, but there are many links on the MB website that name leaders and their actual titles. Not a comprehensive list, but many opinions and articles about the current leadership and their stances on current issues and goals. NOWHERE that I have found is Ghanem ever identified as a leader or leading member and NOWHERE that I have found are his sentiments about declaring war on Israel listed as a goal or current position of the MB.

It has been put forward by Beck, Der Speigel, and other that Ghanem is a leading member of the MB and that he is speaking "for the MB." There is nothing that corroborates this. My position is that Ghanem is a representative of the MB in the UK, not a leading member of the MB, he has made statements, and those statements (particularly about the desire to declare war on Israel) are not substantiated by the MB as being their official position. Therefore he is not speaking for the MB, he is speaking for himself.

YOU and others choose to believe that Ghanem is a leading member of the MB and speaks for their agenda because you read it, on the internet. I've attempted to corroborate the information you are saying is solid and it cannot be done with what is available. When the MB themselves do not acknowledge him as a leader of the movement and their own published positions do not reflect Ghanem's statements then one can intelligently surmise that there are severe discrepancies in Becks and others statements.

The bottom line is this: Beck stated that the Muslim Brotherhood is most likely to seize control if Mubarak steps down and that the Muslim Brotherhood has openly stated they want to declare war on Israel. Opinion polls in Egypt show that the MB has a very low approval rating among the populace...certainly not enough to allow them to seize power in the Egyptian Parliment and make a declaration of war against Israel. Further, Becks position that they "openly stated they want to declare war on Israel" is based upon this internet regurgitation of information that Ghanem is a "leading member" of the MB, which simply isn't true (he's a spokesman in the UK) and as such his comments about preparing for war with Israel are the official position of the MB. This is simply not substantiated by any fact.

Again the OP was discussing the tactics of Beck and Fox and how they have taken information and twisted it in order to further their political agenda. This is clearly the case.

 

[Grim17]

Why is this thread still going?

Beck was right as we have learned.

 

[Boo Radley]

Why is this thread still going?

Beck was right as we have learned.

Read the post above you. :coffeepap

 

[Grim17]

Read the post above you. :coffeepap

No thanks... because it doesn't change the fact that Beck was right.

 

[Thorgasm]

Naturally that nobody has addressed the fact that the leading newspaper in Iran has identified Ghannem as a leading member matters! It is only after all their quotation of the man and their publication of the quote that everyone is arguing over! Of course the fact that the Iranian newspaper and Der Spiegel have identified this man as a leading member is trumped by the fact he is not listed so on the MB website! Of course! So much for the intelligent part of the so called debate.

So Iranian newspapers are more credible when it helps your argument?

 

[Zaserac]

So Iranian newspapers are more credible when it helps your argument?

Since my "argument" was that the quote was originally reported by.....wait for it.....the leading newspaper in Iran, so much for your attention span. Oh boy you really "got" me there with that steel trap logic!:lamo

 

[Thorgasm]

Since my "argument" was that the quote was originally reported by.....wait for it.....the leading newspaper in Iran, so much for your attention span. Oh boy you really "got" me there with that steel trap logic!:lamo

I'm sorry, Beck's argument. :roll:

 

[Ockham]

I've never argued he isn't a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. I've argued there is no proof he is a "leading member" other than the news articles repeating this claim.

Define "leading member"...

You're claiming that because somebody said it on the internet or in a news article is absolutely true.

And your claiming the opposite, because the internet or news articles do NOT say he's a leader, he isn't one. :shrug:

I've acknowledged he was their spokesman in the UK.

You did? In which of your posts - cuz I must have missed that.

The very fact that there is no mention of his statements being the message of the MB on their official site is very important.

Which means that because no statements on the MB being blue aliens from Orions Neblula also must mean they must be. Comon gimme a break with this.

You have to do your homework, but there are many links on the MB website that name leaders and their actual titles. Not a comprehensive list, but many opinions and articles about the current leadership and their stances on current issues and goals.

I've done my homework, what I won't do is pour through hundreds of MB articles, many of which may be out of date. Either there's a comprehensive list of the MB or there is not. Apparently there is not.

NOWHERE that I have found is Ghanem ever identified as a leader or leading member and NOWHERE that I have found are his sentiments about declaring war on Israel listed as a goal or current position of the MB.

Define "leading member" and because you have not seen it does not mean he is not. You're aruing a negative.

It has been put forward by Beck, Der Speigel, and other that Ghanem is a leading member of the MB and that he is speaking "for the MB." There is nothing that corroborates this. My position is that Ghanem is a representative of the MB in the UK, not a leading member of the MB, he has made statements, and those statements (particularly about the desire to declare war on Israel) are not substantiated by the MB as being their official position. Therefore he is not speaking for the MB, he is speaking for himself.

Which support my previous statements on MY views, not Becks.

YOU and others choose to believe that Ghanem is a leading member of the MB and speaks for their agenda because you read it, on the internet.

See my original statement which you claimed was false. No where have I made the claim Ghanem is a leading member of the MB.

I've attempted to corroborate the information you are saying is solid and it cannot be done with what is available. When the MB themselves do not acknowledge him as a leader of the movement and their own published positions do not reflect Ghanem's statements then one can intelligently surmise that there are severe discrepancies in Becks and others statements.

Exactly - the MB gets to put out information and reply/disown it's their information.

The bottom line is this: Beck stated that the Muslim Brotherhood is most likely to seize control if Mubarak steps down and that the Muslim Brotherhood has openly stated they want to declare war on Israel. Opinion polls in Egypt show that the MB has a very low approval rating among the populace...certainly not enough to allow them to seize power in the Egyptian Parliment and make a declaration of war against Israel. Further, Becks position that they "openly stated they want to declare war on Israel" is based upon this internet regurgitation of information that Ghanem is a "leading member" of the MB, which simply isn't true (he's a spokesman in the UK) and as such his comments about preparing for war with Israel are the official position of the MB. This is simply not substantiated by any fact.

Yeah, Beck and opinion polls are irrelevant - use that for someone who's defending Beck. I'm not.

Again the OP was discussing the tactics of Beck and Fox and how they have taken information and twisted it in order to further their political agenda. This is clearly the case.

Again, you claimed my statements were false and argue that because it's not on the internet it must be true. If you want to claim all spokemen for the MB are not "leading members" ... is that what your saying? Because your argument comes down to that... what is and is not a "leading member"... the rest of your write up is fluff.

 

[Ockham]

Read the post above you. :coffeepap

The thread above him is irrelevant, arguing a negative, and does not define what is or isn't a "leading member".:yawn: