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Giuliani says 'of course' he asked Ukraine to look into Biden seconds after denying it

HumblePi said:
This is more ****ed up than most people realize. This is the most ****ed up thing we've ever witnessed politically in our lifetimes, or the lifetimes of all our ancestors combined since the beginning of this country. Nothing will ever compare with this as long as this planet exists.
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Humble, we haven't even scratched the surface of that line of U.S. tragedy. Back up a decade ago and it was Paul Manafort, Trump's former Campaign Chairman and now federal prison inmate, was taking what appears to be Russian money to install a pro-Russian Ukrainian leader...anti-NATO, anti-western as part of their campaign. Yeah, worked for Putin basically. His chief opposition was poisoned right before the election. Victor was down double digits in the pools, won by 3 points... Another election stolen by Russia.

Victor Y is basically a mobster turned pro-Russian installed leader. He jails his other competition, is totally corrupt, and is eventually chased out of Ukraine by the people who were having giant 1M+ protests turned violent because he was so corrupt. He flees to mother Russia.

THAT is when Putin invades Crimea, citing unrest in Ukraine. <- plan all along you might think.

We got played for decades, and we're still being played.
 
SLC said:
W_Heisenberg
You just admitted Biden bribed the President of Ukraine
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Willful ignorance is the worst kind of ignorance. Post #24 completely refutes your narrative, but yet, you keep on repeating a fallacy.

Why do you feel invested in promoting untruths and lies when accepting the truth is a reasonable alternative?
 
Mach said:
Humble, we haven't even scratched the surface of that line of U.S. tragedy. Back up a decade ago and it was Paul Manafort, Trump's former Campaign Chairman and now federal prison inmate, was taking what appears to be Russian money to install a pro-Russian Ukrainian leader...anti-NATO, anti-western as part of their campaign. Yeah, worked for Putin basically. His chief opposition was poisoned right before the election. Victor was down double digits in the pools, won by 3 points... Another election stolen by Russia.

Victor Y is basically a mobster turned pro-Russian installed leader. He jails his other competition, is totally corrupt, and is eventually chased out of Ukraine by the people who were having giant 1M+ protests turned violent because he was so corrupt. He flees to mother Russia.

THAT is when Putin invades Crimea, citing unrest in Ukraine. <- plan all along you might think.

We got played for decades, and we're still being played.
Click to expand...

Paul Manafort is another perfect illustration as to why we need to pass a law that forces every candidate and their campaign be investigated by the FBI prior to any election for high office.

We can't go back but what's staring us in the face going ahead is even more scary. Trump's lawyers claim that Trump cannot even be investigated much less be charged, indicted or stand trial for any crimes committed during his term. That's about as ****ed up as it can get, yet here we are. Trump's supporters will of course agree with that even though they know Trump has very possibly committed crimes and even may be crimes of treason to this country. Remember that old saying 'no one is above the law', this mess makes that saying obsolete. Trump is above the law according to his attorneys, no matter what crime, he cannot be touched. This country should be consumed with fear at this point.
 
Rexedgar said:
Giuliani says 'of course' he asked Ukraine to look into Biden seconds after denying it | TheHill

So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden," Cuomo said.

"Of course I did," Giuliani replied.

You cant handle the truth! -Col Nathan Jessup
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This, of course, is completely different than the "Democratic Party" (indirectly) using Russian sources to get "dirt" on Mr. Trump. This is the President of the United States of America directly asking a foreign government for assistance in an American election in order to boost their chances of being reelected.

<SARC>There simply is no comparison between the two situations.</SARC>
 
SLC said:
W_Heisenberg
You just admitted Biden bribed the President of Ukraine
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Can I just say that I like it when corrupt people are punished for corruption? I wouldn't mind one bit if this was investigated through the proper channels and it was determined that Biden should be charged, convicted and jailed.

You won't say the same about Trump.
 
SLC said:
Offering something of value for a political action is a bribe. From the words of Biden's own mouth he was giving a Billion dollar US loan for the political firing of the Ukrainian prosecutor that was investigating his son. That is a bribe.
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Would offering 250 million U.S. dollars be of value to the Ukraine promised to them only if they help Trump sink Joe Biden? Is that a bribe or not?
 
Just to look at all of this corruption from a different point of view. Did you, if you're a nurse, have to work a double shift a few times over the past year. Did someone puke up their dinner on you during that shift or have diarrhea on the bathroom floor and no housekeepers were around and it was your job to clean that up? Were you working at Walmart as a cashier when a customer complained to you that the cookies she bought last week were all broken and blamed you for bagging them? Maybe you were working in a auto repair shop and changing someone's tire but when you lifted the tire on the wheel your threw out your back and you had to spend the next week flat on your back in bed and not get paid for that time?

All those are just examples of how everyday people work, they put their backs into it to earn an honest living and they firmly believe that they're doing their civic duty as a good American citizen by paying their federal income taxes every week and maybe even owe the government more the following April at tax time. Would Americans be surprised (or not) to find out that that same money that was taken from their paycheck was being used as an illegal bribe to a foreign government for the sole political benefit of the president to win an election?
 
Praxas said:
So in other words, all you have is conspiracy nonsense that links nothing solid together. There is more evidence that Trump wants to sleep with his own daughter than you have against Biden's family.
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You appear to have missed the facts that:

  1. If the situation concerns one of "OUR Guys", until such time as they have been indicted, been tried, been convicted, and exhausted all of their appeals (no matter how frivolous) they are **I*N*N*O*C*E*N*T** and it is not only a perversion of justice to go around investigating someone who is **I*N*N*O*C*E*N*T** it is a **W*I*T*C*H** **H*U*N*T**;
    *
    BUT
    *
  2. If the situation concerns one of "THEIR Guys", then the merest hint of a whiff of a suspicion of the existence of a possible potential theoretical allegation which could be remotely construed as an allegation of something that could be confused with wrongdoing if all of the facts were ignored means that they are *!!!*G!!*!!U!!*!!I!!*!!L!!*!!T!!*!!Y*!!!*
 
HumblePi said:
Paul Manafort is another perfect illustration as to why we need to pass a law that forces every candidate and their campaign be investigated by the FBI prior to any election for high office.
Click to expand...
Of course, seems obvious right? We've had nutters on this forum claim that Trump WAS vetted for top secret clearance...they are bat-**** crazy. Others claim there is no way to do that, it would limit who can be president (!!)....which is the point yah? We don't want you know, RUSSIAN SYMPATHIZER WORKING FOR PUTIN "indirectly". They want that though...as long as they trash liberals in rallies right?

But the founders of this government were in a more simple time, and only imagined we'd ever have one branch corrupted at a time, and some decency and people who would you know...hold them accountable. *laugh*
Trump's lawyers claim that Trump cannot even be investigated much less be charged, indicted or stand trial for any crimes committed during his term.
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That whole line has a good following among fundie Republicans now, and with a 5/4 SCOTUS, they can likely establish that as precedent at some point. Talk about scary.

They go a little further and claim Trump actually cannot commit obstruction if he's using his presidential power. That means, they claim, that he *cannot by law* have used presidential power for a "corrupt purpose", since the power is granted to POTUS via the constitution, POTUS exercise of that power is *necessarily made in the best interest of the nation*, by virtue of being POTUS. So short of treason...helping enemies during war that they can't hide as "negotiations", it means they believe there is legally no way POTUS can use their granted power for corrupt purposes. Out-****ing-rageous.

I hear ya, we could go on for days sadly :(
 
HumblePi said:
Paul Manafort is another perfect illustration as to why we need to pass a law that forces every candidate and their campaign be investigated by the FBI prior to any election for high office.

We can't go back but what's staring us in the face going ahead is even more scary. Trump's lawyers claim that Trump cannot even be investigated much less be charged, indicted or stand trial for any crimes committed during his term. That's about as ****ed up as it can get, yet here we are. Trump's supporters will of course agree with that even though they know Trump has very possibly committed crimes and even may be crimes of treason to this country. Remember that old saying 'no one is above the law', this mess makes that saying obsolete. Trump is above the law according to his attorneys, no matter what crime, he cannot be touched. This country should be consumed with fear at this point.
Click to expand...

I have to admit that "The Divine Right of Presidents" IS a new political doctrine as far as I am concerned.
 
HumblePi said:
Would offering 250 million U.S. dollars be of value to the Ukraine promised to them only if they help Trump sink Joe Biden? Is that a bribe or not?
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No, because "That's DIFFERENT!!!".
 
HumblePi said:
Just to look at all of this corruption from a different point of view. Did you, if you're a nurse, have to work a double shift a few times over the past year. Did someone puke up their dinner on you during that shift or have diarrhea on the bathroom floor and no housekeepers were around and it was your job to clean that up? Were you working at Walmart as a cashier when a customer complained to you that the cookies she bought last week were all broken and blamed you for bagging them? Maybe you were working in a auto repair shop and changing someone's tire but when you lifted the tire on the wheel your threw out your back and you had to spend the next week flat on your back in bed and not get paid for that time?

All those are just examples of how everyday people work, they put their backs into it to earn an honest living and they firmly believe that they're doing their civic duty as a good American citizen by paying their federal income taxes every week and maybe even owe the government more the following April at tax time. Would Americans be surprised (or not) to find out that that same money that was taken from their paycheck was being used as an illegal bribe to a foreign government for the sole political benefit of the president to win an election?
Click to expand...

About 40% would not be surprised.

About 40% would not see it as being in the least bit irregular.

About 10% simply wouldn't care.

About 10% wouldn't have heard about it.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I've said it once... I'll say it a thousand times... there is no way, no way in hell, the history books will be kind to this President or this period in American history.
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And as David Frum once said, no one will admit to ever supporting the carnival barker.
 
tres borrachos said:
I literally almost fell out of my chair watching that. I am so embarrassed for Rudy. The once great and dignified mayor has been reduced to a quivering, stuttering, lying idiot in the mold of Donald Trump.
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It was a sight to behold. It was worse than Rudy's usual lame defenses of Trump. Rudy's performance has increased everyone's suspicion of Trump.
 
Rexedgar said:
Giuliani says 'of course' he asked Ukraine to look into Biden seconds after denying it | TheHill

So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden," Cuomo said.

"Of course I did," Giuliani replied.
Click to expand...

Not long after the recent 2019 Ukraine elections, Rudy Guiliani traveled to Kyiv and demanded that the new government open an investigation into Hunter Biden, the son of Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden. For a few years, Hunter Biden lived and worked in Ukraine. As Guiliani well knows, between 2016 and 2018 the Prosecutor General of Ukraine initiated 3 separate investigations tangentially involving Hunter Biden. The PG announced in 2018 that Hunter Biden had been cleared of any misconduct. This isn't what Guiliani wanted to hear. His boss Trump had sent him to Ukraine in 2017 to dig up dirt on Biden. Now with a new Ukraine government in 2019, Guiliani was going to try again, only this time he had a "persuader" in his pocket. The "persuader" was that Trump was now holding up defense funds appropriated by Congress for Ukraine (until Guiliani got what he wanted). Congress got wind of this attempted coercion by Trump/Guiliani and the crap hit the fan. Even Lindsey Graham had some unpleasant words for Trump. TheDonald relented and the funds were cleared. Guiliani is still frustrated that he couldn't force Kyiv into fabricating some dirt against Hunter Biden.

P.S. Most of us are aware of the current Trump/Barr refusal to allow Congress access to "whistleblower information". WaPo is now reporting that this information concerns a promise made by Trump to Ukrainian leaders. It could well be a secret quid-pro-quo agreement concerning the defense funds for Ukraine (or perhaps more US Javelin ATGM) in exchange for Hunter Biden political dirt.
 
Mach said:
Of course, seems obvious right? We've had nutters on this forum claim that Trump WAS vetted for top secret clearance...they are bat-**** crazy. Others claim there is no way to do that, it would limit who can be president (!!)....which is the point yah? We don't want you know, RUSSIAN SYMPATHIZER WORKING FOR PUTIN "indirectly". They want that though...as long as they trash liberals in rallies right?

But the founders of this government were in a more simple time, and only imagined we'd ever have one branch corrupted at a time, and some decency and people who would you know...hold them accountable. *laugh*
That whole line has a good following among fundie Republicans now, and with a 5/4 SCOTUS, they can likely establish that as precedent at some point. Talk about scary.

They go a little further and claim Trump actually cannot commit obstruction if he's using his presidential power. That means, they claim, that he *cannot by law* have used presidential power for a "corrupt purpose", since the power is granted to POTUS via the constitution, POTUS exercise of that power is *necessarily made in the best interest of the nation*, by virtue of being POTUS. So short of treason...helping enemies during war that they can't hide as "negotiations", it means they believe there is legally no way POTUS can use their granted power for corrupt purposes. Out-****ing-rageous.

I hear ya, we could go on for days sadly :(
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A small observation of mine, yeah it's silly but it seems that whenever Trump is trying to hide something big from the American public, his spray tan goes shades darker than usual. No, it's not the fault of light-bulbs as he claimed. Remember when he hosted two of Russians top spies in the Oval Office? He and Lavrov must have used the same tanning booth that day. This meeting was a big surprise to everyone, except to Putin.

ab53e86a-6ce1-4483-b903-d3038bb3fc2f-large16x9-TRUMPUSRUSSIA-Par.jpg


This on the day he lashed out at both China and our U.S. Fed Reserve Chair essentially blaming him for the mess.

Trump-Google-95524.jpg



The Trump-Putin summit, the one they met in private with no witnesses for 90 minutes.

donald-trump-putin-meeting-gq.jpg


Two weeks ago, promising to release 8 years of his financials before the 2020 election.


MW-HQ970-19trum-ZH-20190909184342.jpg


LOL it's silly and perhaps a coincidence but it seems to be an unconscious thing with Trump.
 
This administration is so thoroughly corrupt it is laughable.
 
HumblePi said:
Just to look at all of this corruption from a different point of view. Did you, if you're a nurse, have to work a double shift a few times over the past year. Did someone puke up their dinner on you during that shift or have diarrhea on the bathroom floor and no housekeepers were around and it was your job to clean that up? Were you working at Walmart as a cashier when a customer complained to you that the cookies she bought last week were all broken and blamed you for bagging them? Maybe you were working in a auto repair shop and changing someone's tire but when you lifted the tire on the wheel your threw out your back and you had to spend the next week flat on your back in bed and not get paid for that time?

All those are just examples of how everyday people work, they put their backs into it to earn an honest living and they firmly believe that they're doing their civic duty as a good American citizen by paying their federal income taxes every week and maybe even owe the government more the following April at tax time. Would Americans be surprised (or not) to find out that that same money that was taken from their paycheck was being used as an illegal bribe to a foreign government for the sole political benefit of the president to win an election?
Click to expand...

It's actually a little different than that. The $250 million would do the Ukraine good and it is probably in America's interest to give it. However, the Trump Admin is withholding these monies unless the Ukrainians investigate and take legal action against Biden. So, it's not really bribery. It's extortion.
 
MTAtech said:
It's actually a little different than that. The $250 million would do the Ukraine good and it is probably in America's interest to give it. However, the Trump Admin is withholding these monies unless the Ukrainians investigate and take legal action against Biden. So, it's not really bribery. It's extortion.
Click to expand...

Okay, huge difference then. My tax money is going to pay for extortion, not for bribery. Whew, I feel so relieved now.
 
Obscurity said:
This administration is so thoroughly corrupt it is laughable.
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Well, it's not laughable. Trump is winning in his quest to turn the government into an autocratic kleptocracy. He's installing stooges who are beholden to him and are working to defend his personal profiteering and power grabs, regardless of the law.

Look at a few examples:

The law says that certain committees of the Congress request tax returns of taxpayers, the Secy of the Treasury "shall" provide them. Yet, Trump's Secy of the Treasury refuses.
The administration refuses to honor Congressional subpoenas.
The Attorney General acts like he's Trump's personal attorney, not the AG working for the country.
 
HumblePi said:
Would offering 250 million U.S. dollars be of value to the Ukraine promised to them only if they help Trump sink Joe Biden? Is that a bribe or not?
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I believe might be going on here too.
 
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