Girl Too Young For Tattoo Offered Irreversible Gender Surgery.

[CharisRose]

IF my dog poops in a litter box, does that mean he is a cat?

I had a cute little dog. I also had a cute little cat. The dog used the kitty litter box. Didn’t need to walk the dog everyday. Just needed to clean the litter everyday.
The dog never meowed and she didn’t bark until she meet my Mom’s dog who barked at her. She barked back but it scared her the first time she barked. She was a very smart dog. A German Shepherd went after her. She went under the Shepherd and was biting legs and anything else she could reach. Shepherd ran away bloodied. My cute little dog remained a cute little dog in spite of pooping in a litter box.

 

[CLAX1911]

It obvious that you dont know what facts are

Facts are what can be shown to be objectively true without doubt.

I doubt so not facts.

when you reject medical science, the results of brain MRIs and neurobiology.

I don't. I just don't look at only things that affirm your position. For example there is no structural difference between the brains in males or females.

Science is a process of finding knowledge where I agree the MRI scans and neurological evidence they provide is science but so are MRI scans that suggest there is no brain differences between men and women at all.

Any further discussion is a waste of time with you because you cannot understand it.

No it's because I'm skeptical and you need a believer.

 

[Lisa]

Facts are what can be shown to be objectively true without doubt.

I doubt so not facts.

I don't. I just don't look at only things that affirm your position. For example there is no structural difference between the brains in males or females.

Science is a process of finding knowledge where I agree the MRI scans and neurological evidence they provide is science but so are MRI scans that suggest there is no brain differences between men and women at all.

No it's because I'm skeptical and you need a believer.

You just admitted that you reject facts because there are structural and functional differences.

Gay guys have brain similarities with a hetero female brain. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84496-z

 

[CLAX1911]

You just admitted that you reject facts because there are structural and functional differences.

Science doesn't mean fact. Are you kidding?

Science is the pursuit of knowledge. In the process ideas are formulated tested and debunked or proven. All of it is science even the debunked part. So science yet not fact

Gay guys have brain similarities with a hetero female brain. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84496-z

The structural differences between male and female brains haven't been confirmed and it's debatable. Finding one article doesn't equate to facts.

 

[Superfly]

You be sure and enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
Your personal attacks are not welcome here.

Buh-bye.

Ironic.

 

[OlNate]

Well, I accept your criticism. What I can tell you is that I do not mean to invalidate, silence, or ridicule anyone with this complex issue. My comment about the dog, was merely stating that just because someone wants to do something, it doesn't change who that person really is. If you want to make the cosmetic change as an adult, I wish you well, but don't feel that society should pay for it. Believe me, I do not profess to being a scholar on this subject, so of your two choices I would go with gross ignorance.

This is a classy response. I mean that. You win - third outcome achieved.

I think this whole thing gets easier when we approach it with empathy and humility. Easier to talk about, easier to find solutions, or common ground, easier to understand the other "side". Nobody knows everything.

You'll see i spend a lot of time on here talking about methodology and approach (when I'm not busy being a wise ass for the lolz). I think you provide a good example of why. I'm much better able to hear your point of view when you deliver it with a bit of empathy and humility. We may or may not agree, we may or may not have things to learn from one another, but we can talk about it.

Anyway, kudos for owning your shit, and taking a moment to communicate authentically. It's so much better than the knee jerk, rinse and repeat arrogant insensitivity that i was bugging you about, and if everyone was willing to do that, well, the conversations here would be epic. I need to work on it myself.

 

[CLAX1911]

Telling trans guy he is a woman is a perfectly good reason for him to decide to start swinging, fists or a baseball bat.

The reality is there would never come a point where would actually say this to somebody.

I would treat any of these people the way I would want to be treated.

This is more about my thoughts I don't think they're men I'm not going to and they're not entitled to that.

You either do not understand gender idneity or you hate transgender people.

What if I don't care and it doesn't matter? Outside of this setting when would I ever talk to somebody about this?

The only time I could ever imagine it coming up is it a trans guy was enamored with me I would have to tell him the truth. I can't see him as a man that's the only time I would ever come up. They'd have nothing to be mad at me about. I have boundaries I'm allowed to have those even if I'm LGBT.

 

[Utility Man]

Speaking of groomers.



The leaders of maga know which buttons to press.........

....demonizing their opponents is probably what they do best.



Now the cult will be on a mission to save the children, from being aborted after birth, rescue them from those satanic democrat pedophiles etc.





They literally live in a world of "make believe".

 

[Queen Margo]

This is a classy response. I mean that. You win - third outcome achieved.

I think this whole thing gets easier when we approach it with empathy and humility. Easier to talk about, easier to find solutions, or common ground, easier to understand the other "side". Nobody knows everything.

You'll see i spend a lot of time on here talking about methodology and approach (when I'm not busy being a wise ass for the lolz). I think you provide a good example of why. I'm much better able to hear your point of view when you deliver it with a bit of empathy and humility. We may or may not agree, we may or may not have things to learn from one another, but we can talk about it.

Anyway, kudos for owning your shit, and taking a moment to communicate authentically. It's so much better than the knee jerk, rinse and repeat arrogant insensitivity that i was bugging you about, and if everyone was willing to do that, well, the conversations here would be epic. I need to work on it myself.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Girl Too Young For Tattoo Offered Irreversible Gender Surgery​

Girl Too Young to Check Out Library Book Without Adult Permission & State Approval Ordered to Carry Father's Baby to Term​

 

[rahl]

This is not elective cosmetic surgery.

lol, of course it is

 

[CLAX1911]

Girl Too Young For Tattoo Offered Irreversible Gender Surgery​

Girl Too Young to Check Out Library Book Without Adult Permission & State Approval Ordered to Carry Father's Baby to Term​

An I allowed to disagree with this and also not support castrating children?

 

[CLAX1911]

lol, of course it is

She often brings up suicide. Teenagers being displeased with their physical appearance is common. If a young girl said I would commit suicide if I don't get a boob job, what boy says I'm going to commit suicide if I don't get calf implants plastic surgery does not suddenly become life-saving.

I don't know why and one case people think that it would.

 

[mrjurrs]

A minor should never be allowed to have purely elective surgery.


Medical professionals should never be allowed, by law, to perform purely elective surgery on minors.

I reserve the right to make exceptions for things like cleft palates, and some other quality of life improving procedures for birth defects and/or injuries.

Never meaning even if the parents decide it is necessary?

 

[CLAX1911]

Never meaning even if the parents decide it is necessary?

The only time it would really be necessary If the child is disfigured. Parents don't decide if something is necessary.

Further this can only harm a child.

 

[Lisa]

The only time it would really be necessary If the child is disfigured. Parents don't decide if something is necessary.

Further this can only harm a child.

And yet you are wrong. Very wrong.

You still do not understand what gender idneity is, so this doesn't make sense to you.

Your opinions do not disprove more than 100 years of medical science. They are just unsupported opinions. You also do not understand the difference between an subjective opinion from Joe Blow on the street compared to the facts from Drs and psychologists who have spent decades learning and treating this situation.

The AMA is very clear on this subject, as is the APA, Psychiatrists and pediatricians. Until you have an MD or a PhD your unsupported and unsourced opinions in opposition to theirs are to be ignored.

 

[CLAX1911]

And yet you are wrong. Very wrong.

Why because you insist?

You still do not understand what gender idneity is, so this doesn't make sense to you.

I understand what gender identity. You haven't successfully proven that it's absolutely set in stone and cannot change at all and anyone's life in fact evidence suggests that that isn't the case.

Your opinions do not disprove more than 100 years of medical science.

I wasn't trying to disprove 100 years of medical science. The science you're speaking of is highly contested by science.

They are just unsupported opinions.

So now you're trying to disprove 100 years of medical science?

You also do not understand the difference between an subjective opinion from Joe Blow on the street compared to the facts from Drs and psychologists who have spent decades learning and treating this situation.

Opinions from doctors and psychologists are not facts even if they spent the centuries learning and treating this situation.

Again calling it treatment suggests something is wrong with these people.

Also there is disagreement between doctors and psychologists on this subject.

The AMA is very clear on this subject, as is the APA,

And if they agreed with me what their authority mean anything to you?

Psychiatrists and pediatricians. Until you have an MD or a PhD your unsupported and unsourced opinions in opposition to theirs are to be ignored.

If only you could you respond to me constantly you're not ignoring you're doing the opposite of that.

Is so called the opinions which is just doubt in your claims that it would seem to think me and so little sure do trigger you a lot. If they meant so little I don't think that that would be possible.

I think the reaction you have to just about everything I say on the topic suggests you understand there's truth in what I say you just don't like it. That's why you can't resist responding that's why you try and belittle me you're trying to get me to shut up. I'm not going to. Your behavior when I State this encourages me.

 

[Lisa]

Why because you insist?

Because of the medical science. Science isn't democratic and your opinion doesn't change things.

I understand what gender identity. You haven't successfully proven that it's absolutely set in stone and cannot change at all and anyone's life in fact evidence suggests that that isn't the case.

John Money proved that when he tried to change cisgender David Reimer into Brenda to prove his idea that gender identity was learned. If gender identity was learned then conversion therapy would also be possible. Its a fact that it is not possible and patents are harmed or killed when it is attempted.

I dare you to find a reputable single source that says that gender identity is learned. Just one.

I wasn't trying to disprove 100 years of medical science. The science you're speaking of is highly contested by science.

No it is not contested on this issue. Conservatives making outrageous and unsupportable claims about grooming doesn't disprove anything. Grooming is not possible because gender identity is not learned.

So now you're trying to disprove 100 years of medical science?

Opinions from doctors and psychologists are not facts even if they spent the centuries learning and treating this situation.

Again calling it treatment suggests something is wrong with these people.

Their physical sex and gender idneity are not the same. That is what is wrong. Why do I need to explain this to you?

Also there is disagreement between doctors and psychologists on this subject.

No, there is not. What washed up hack told you otherwise?

And if they agreed with me what their authority mean anything to you?

If they did then I would change but that hasn't happened in 100 years.

If only you could you respond to me constantly you're not ignoring you're doing the opposite of that.

Is so called the opinions which is just doubt in your claims that it would seem to think me and so little sure do trigger you a lot. If they meant so little I don't think that that would be possible.

I think the reaction you have to just about everything I say on the topic suggests you understand there's truth in what I say you just don't like it. That's why you can't resist responding that's why you try and belittle me you're trying to get me to shut up. I'm not going to. Your behavior when I State this encourages me.

Nothing but word salad opinions.

 

[CLAX1911]

Because of the medical science, that you cant seem to either read or understand.

The medical science is inconclusive. That's why they're still experimenting.

John Money proved that when he tried to change cisgender David Reimer into Brenda to prove his idea that gender identity was learned. If gender identity was learned then conversion therapy would also be possible. Its a fact that it is not possible and patents are harmed or killed when it is attempted.

He did nothing to prove gender identity at all whatsoever. His experiment was to suggest a person is male or female based on socialization.

Everybody knew he was wrong from the beginning.

I dare you to find a reputable single source that says that gender identity is learned. Just one.

I don't need to. All I need is to find doubt that it's some sort of innate characteristic and surprise surprise that doubt exists.

I don't have to prove your idea wrong for there to be doubt.

No it is not contested on this issue.

That's just wishful thinking on your part.

Conservatives making outrageous and unsupportable claims about grooming doesn't disprove anything. Grooming is not possible because gender identity is not learned.

This isn't a conservative/Democrat issue. Trying to frame it that way it's false dichotomy.

Their physical sex and gender idneity are not the same. That is what is wrong. Why do I need to explain this to you?

So they're broken and need to be fixed they are not right do you know how bigoted that sounds?

No, there is not. What washed up hack told you otherwise?

Giving you any information on this first would be of no use to either one of us you have already decided because they don't agree with you that they're washed up hacks this shows that you have too much bias to even approach this subject honestly.

Further you could find it if you look. Maybe you don't look because you're afraid.

If they did then I would change but that hasn't happened in 100 years.

So your ideology is based strictly on medical doctrine it has nothing to do with what right and wrong it just has to do with what authorities say?

Nothing but word salad opinions.

Well I'm glad that you said that it means that what I said was true and you know it.

 

[Lisa]

The medical science is inconclusive. That's why they're still experimenting.

Who is experimenting on patients? The existence of the WPATH treatment protocols makes experimenting an act of malpractice.

He did nothing to prove gender identity at all whatsoever. His experiment was to suggest a person is male or female based on socialization.

Nature vs nurture. Obviously gender idneity had to exist, but he didn't know when the onset was.

Everybody knew he was wrong from the beginning.

No, they didn't.

I don't need to. All I need is to find doubt that it's some sort of innate characteristic and surprise surprise that doubt exists.

You nor anyone else has been able to do that. For 80 years.

I don't have to prove your idea wrong for there to be doubt.

That's just wishful thinking on your part.

This isn't a conservative/Democrat issue. Trying to frame it that way it's false dichotomy.

So they're broken and need to be fixed they are not right do you know how bigoted that sounds?

Giving you any information on this first would be of no use to either one of us you have already decided because they don't agree with you that they're washed up hacks this shows that you have too much bias to even approach this subject honestly.

Its not my job to chase down your fallacious claims. You made them so you source them. .

Further you could find it if you look. Maybe you don't look because you're afraid.

So your ideology is based strictly on medical doctrine it has nothing to do with what right and wrong it just has to do with what authorities say?

Well I'm glad that you said that it means that what I said was true and you know it.

Evasive word salad.

 

[CLAX1911]

Who is experimenting on patients?

Anytime someone applies some medicine that isn't proven to treat it's experimental. It's okay but because all humans are exactly the same there is no one size fits all treatment.

The existence of the WPATH treatment protocols makes experimenting an act of malpractice.

I think that has more to do with the risk assessment. If say you're prescribed someone oral Lotramin to treat a fungal infection and that person happens to be allergic to it. We didn't know that going in and you can't know until you do the experiment.

Nature vs nurture. Obviously gender idneity had to exist, but he didn't know when the onset was.

This didn't really prove anything about gender identity. The subject was male. That was his sex.

No, they didn't.

Okay, everyone that wasn't the degenerate pedophile new or something wrong with it.

Your sex isn't something that's nurtured. Gender roles to a degree may actually be.

You nor anyone else has been able to do that. For 80 years.

I disagree there's plenty of doubt currently. Again I will point to the 40% suicide rate.

Its not my job to chase down your fallacious claims. You made them so you source them. .

My claims were negative. I should say my claim because I've only made one. I don't believe you.

I don't believe you because information you don't want to hear about exists.

If you really cared about helping people you wouldn't know all of this other pieces of information. You actively avoiding them because you think they're felicious without even meaning or knowing what they say at all shows that you are biased.

It can't be valid because it goes against what you believe. This is absolutely exactly what religious people do.

That's why I call it a religion.

Evasive word salad.

Thank you. When you say something is word salad it means you can't formulate a counterpoint .

 

[Hamish Howl]

So your ideology is based strictly on medical doctrine

The horror.

 

[roguenuke]

Minors have not reached the level of maturity to make such a irreversible, life altering decision for themselves all by themselves without their parents or legal guardians involved.

Like say joining the military? Deciding which gender they should be if they are born intersex?

We need to stop treating all minors the same as if a 6 year old is the same level of maturity and understanding as a 16 year old, or vice versa.

 

[roguenuke]

Also, can I point out the premise of this thread is a little off, since there are a number of states that have no restrictions on when a person can get a tattoo. There are tattoo artist codes that tend to limit them to 16 and up, but not necessarily a legal thing. They could certainly be sued if without a parent's permission.

 

[eohrnberger]

Like say joining the military?

You've defeated your own argument.

Age limits​

Each branch of the military has age limits to enlist in active duty:​

• Air Force: 17 - 39
• Army: 17 - 35
• Coast Guard: 17 - 31
• Marine Corps: 17 - 28
• Navy: 17 - 39
• Space Force: 17 - 39

Requirements to join the U.S. military | USAGov

Get the age, physical, educational, and other requirements for enlisting in each branch of the U.S. military. Learn about ASVAB testing.

www.usa.gov

Deciding which gender they should be if they are born intersex?

We need to stop treating all minors the same as if a 6 year old is the same level of maturity and understanding as a 16 year old, or vice versa.

Given the above, 17 years of age would appear to be reasonable, per your own argument.